Factors for a competitive NT

  • Which are in your opinion the factors that make a competitive NT?


    Population of a country - There is more possibility to find talents. It is true for China, Russia, Brazil, USA, Japan, Germany, Turkey, Italy but not for India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Philippines, Vietnam, Mexico, Iran, France, United Kingdom. On the other hand countries with not so big population such as Cuba, Serbia, Netherlands, Azerbaijan, Croatia produce good players and have good NTs.


    Income - Parents in rich countries can send more easily their sons to play sport. Strong clubs and championships are found in rich countries. That is true for Italy, USA, Turkey, Netherlands, Japan, Germany, but not for United Kingdom, Norway and other Scandinavian countries, France, Canada, Australia. On the contrary China, Cuba, Peru (of the 80s), Brazil (in the 80s and early 90s I don't think it was a rich country) which are not rich countries have and had succesfull teams.


    Physical structure - Tall and strong players are important in this sport. Some countries have taller and other smaller average height population. That may be true for Russia, China (tall more than tall), United States, Cuba (strong more than tall), Serbia, Poland, Netherlands but not for Scandinavian countries or Jamaica (I think the girls are similiar physically to Cubans :?: ). Countries with smaller average height are also succesfull such as Brazil, Italy, Turkey, Japan


    Political structure - It is interesting that communist countries were succesfull in this sport. Maybe it has an influence in the method of training. URSS, Cuba, China, East Germany. And now post communist countries are succesfull too Russia, Poland, Serbia, but not Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic.


    Popularity of the sport - Of course Brazil, Italy, Russia, China, Cuba, Serbia, Turkey, Japan are succesfull because the sport is popular among girls so they pick volleyball when they are little. But Nastja said that in Germany volley is not popular. I don't think it is popular in the USA either. But the teams are succesfull. In Peru and South Korea volley is popular but NTs struggle.


    :?: :?: :?:

  • Popularity of the sport - Of course Brazil, Italy, Russia, China, Cuba, Serbia, Turkey, Japan are succesfull because the sport is popular among girls so they pick volleyball when they are little. But Nastja said that in Germany volley is not popular. I don't think it is popular in the USA either. But the teams are succesfull. In Peru and South Korea volley is popular but NTs struggle.


    If we talk about popularity you need to add Poland of course :D I think only in Brazil volleyball is so popular. You are right, volleyball is not that popular in Germany, but much more than in USA. Germany is a very sportative nation and it would like to be good in almost every sport. I suppose, they wouldn't have nothing against successes in volleyball.
    But generally I agree with your factors. I would add also tradition. It is easier to have a good volleyball team in country which has tradition in this sport (Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Czech Rep.) and much more difficult in countrise without such a big tradition (Hungary, Great Britain, Scandinavia). But of course, tradition has a lot to do with popularity.

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • I think that among all these factors popularity is the most important .Volleyball is very popular in Serbia,actually it's the most popular sport among girls.It has brought us to a very comfortable position that we have enough players to make 2 NTs that could play on high level.


    But nobody can have it all.Samba mentioned some countries that are not so good in volleyball,like Hungary and Romania.True, but they are great in handball.The same fore Scandinavian countries.Denmark (3 times) and Norway (once) have won Olympic gold in this sport in the last 4 Olympics.They don't care for volleyball, but love handball.So they manage to achieve great results even though their population is around 5 milion.

  • I think girls volleyball is more popular in the USA than you are stating. There is no professional volleyball (NCAA Division I teams should be considered professional but are not), but there are hundreds of thousands of girls playing across the country. Nearly every jr. high school (11-13 year olds) has at least one team and sometimes as many as four teams. Most often these teams are not selective - every girl who wants to play makes a team. Almost all high schools (14-18 years old) have two teams and often three teams. These teams are selective.


    In addition to the school program there are litterally tens of thousands of club teams. Probably 25.000 or more. Some of the club tournaments are incredible! Nearly 100 courts under one roof, 4 teams per court in the morning, and 4 more teams in the afternoon! These tournaments last for two or three days at a time. Sometimes they can't run all the age groups at once, so they have 16-18's on one weekend, and 12-15's on the next weekend.



    Count the courts in that image, then imagine there are between 80 and 120 courts total, 8 teams per court, and so many teams entered that you have to run the tournament over two weekends!!! This happens about 15 times a year in the USA and probably 80% of the teams are unique to each event.


    There are many smaller tournaments the teams play in also.


    There are more than 1000 university, college and two year college teams for girls 18-23ish. Many of the top university teams draw 1000 or more fans per match. Some like Nebraska, Hawaii and Wisconsin (and others) regularly draw well over 3000 fans to each home match! Hawaii averages about 6000 fans per match. Nebraska has sold out almost every home match for 10 years - their gym seats about 4800.


    If you have satilite tv, you can usually find 5 or 6 games/week during the college season (September-December).


    Mens volleyball in the USA is tiny. Maybe 1/100th of the girls. Baseball, (American) football, and basketball get all the boys in the USA.

  • That is a very insightful post Murina. :)


    Here are what I think makes a competitive NT.


    1. A good grass roots program
    2. A good youth NT program
    3. A good NT coach
    4. International exposure
    5. Amount of playing time spent with teammates
    6. Support - financial, political etc. from the government as well as the public


  • But nobody can have it all.Samba mentioned some countries that are not so good in volleyball,like Hungary and Romania.True, but they are great in handball.The same fore Scandinavian countries.Denmark (3 times) and Norway (once) have won Olympic gold in this sport in the last 4 Olympics.They don't care for volleyball, but love handball.So they manage to achieve great results even though their population is around 5 milion.


    Hungarians I know care about volleyball, but they are just weak... Romania is much stronger (both men and woman) if we compare them with Hungary.

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • I ment Scandinavians when I said that they didn't care.I agree on Hungarians and Romanians.


    OK :)

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • Today I've found that page in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E…n_Volleyball_Championship.


    It seems that all Warsaw Pact teams were strong in the past. Soviet Union almost always won, but the silver and bronze was won by Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria or East Germany. No Netherlands, Italy, West Germany or any other western european country.
    So I think there is a volleyball tradition also in Hungary, but I don't understand why the NT struggles that much in the last decade. :(

  • A very interesting topic! :thumbsup:


    Although, I think you missed one factor there, samba player, which is nationalizing foreign players. :P We've seen it happen in at least two cases over the last 15 years. :whistle:


    I'll add another important factor, seriously this time - the work of national volleyball federations. They need to make sure there's good cooperation with the players, to provide funding for the preparations and youth programmes. Sometimes a NT with lots of tradition and good players can be ruined because a federation is doing poor work. That was the case with Croatia in the last couple of years, but it's getting better now.
    Ukraine has it even worse. Apparently it's a total chaos there, there's no money, players are refusing to play for the team or are not selected for unknown reasons and an outrageously high number of them change their nationality and the federation is not doing anything to prevent it. In same cases they are totally clueless about it - they didn't even know that Skazka (Mammadova) had changed her nationality until Ukraine got to play Azerbaijan and they saw her in person. They had thought that "Natalya Mammadova" was some totally different player! Also, they selected Lyubov Yagodina to play in the WC qualies only to find out she had already taken Russian citizenship! It's a huge mess.

  • A very interesting topic! :thumbsup:


    Although, I think you missed one factor there, samba player, which is nationalizing foreign players. :P We've seen it happen in at least two cases over the last 15 years. :whistle:


    :lol: :lol:
    Let me guess. You mean Aguero for Italy and Kirillova, Sidorenko and Chebukina for Croatia? And isn't Barbara Jelic Slovene? At least she was born in Novo Mesto (Slovenia).
    :D



    I'll add another important factor, seriously this time - the work of national volleyball federations. They need to make sure there's good cooperation with the players, to provide funding for the preparations and youth programmes. Sometimes a NT with lots of tradition and good players can be ruined because a federation is doing poor work. That was the case with Croatia in the last couple of years, but it's getting better now.
    Ukraine has it even worse. Apparently it's a total chaos there, there's no money, players are refusing to play for the team or are not selected for unknown reasons and an outrageously high number of them change their nationality and the federation is not doing anything to prevent it. In same cases they are totally clueless about it - they didn't even know that Skazka (Mammadova) had changed her nationality until Ukraine got to play Azerbaijan and they saw her in person. They had thought that "Natalya Mammadova" was some totally different player! Also, they selected Lyubov Yagodina to play in the WC qualies only to find out she had already taken Russian citizenship! It's a huge mess.


    I agree! The work of the federations is very important. Ukraine has some good players - Goncharova's sisters, Gasukha, Fomina, Zhukova, Dushkyevich. It's a pity they never play together for NT. Same for Croatia, it has so many talents.


    I think we have to add also the work to find and train players in all positions. Russia for example has some many good attackers, but it lacks strong liberos and setters. Same for Cuba.
    Serbia and Croatia have an important problem too. They have both very good attackers, but that are not so good receivers. So they have so many great OPP. Malaguski, Vesovic, Nesovic all played as OPP in their respective clubs, right? I think they should train more in reception.

  • This is a very interesting topic.....


    I thinkthat throught these years many teams arrive as competitive based in different situations...each period of time different points were important to make a competitive team....in theory having biggest populations should help finding more players..and in some point that is true, but I dont think this is a substance point


    These days....I think so things are very important....to have a strong league for your athlets, and a good structure with strong coaches that makes possible the grow from the players is really important...I dont think that only working the national team is enough to make a great team...even if you dont have a competitive competition in your country..like Croacia, Serbia and Poland for example..you need to have your players playing in a competitive championship..and I think that is what happen in their cases...Italy, Russia, Turkey...they all have strong leagues...witch helps a lot their players..with always demanding a lot from them...in case of Brasil, maybe we dont have a strong league as the Italian and russian one...but...we have very good coaches...and are practices are very intense during league, so some how, that has a huge importance for our players. Somehow I think the trainning culture that we have here and that US have help this teams to always be in top. And we also have many players here specially in male volley, so...actually is a strong championship...even we dont have many foreigers.


    Another thing I think is really important to build a competitive team is of course the work in National Teams since the younger categories to the adult. I cant say for other countries, but what I see in Brasil is a huge and massive investiment in younger categories...the boys and girls have the same treatment as the adults National Teams in Brasil's center of trainning.
    WE have good work, in technical and tatic aspects, all players are very demanded.


    The Center of trainning in Saquarema helps a lot...I have a magazine with a huge report about it..but my scanner is not working now...so..when does I can put it here better..I found the magazine in internet, but the pictures are poor, but I'll put it anyway..I think is a very interesting view of why brasil has been such strong in last years.


    So for me, trainning hard, trainning culture, investment in younger categories, good coaches and players in a strong league is really important


    Up to that, of course, making the sport popular in your country is very important, cause makes your people wanna play....makes new people wanna follow, more investments and so on...
    It's everything a cicle!!!!

  • .even if you dont have a competitive competition in your country..like Croacia, Serbia and Poland for example..


    Poland don't have competitive competition? 8o Our Female league is average (but not bad) Polish teams play quite well in European cups. It's really difficult to compare the competition in Poland with Serbia or especially Croatia.

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D


  • Poland don't have competitive competition? 8o Our Female league is average (but not bad) Polish teams play quite well in European cups. It's really difficult to compare the competition in Poland with Serbia or especially Croatia.

    Oh Sorry...I agree with you...you have good teams...I didnt want to make a comparison with Serbia or Croatia, but with Italian, Russian and Turkish league...that are full with strong and known names....So...maybe I'll put Poland together with Brasil in matter of internal competitions... ;)

  • I think first and the most important factor not only for volleyball but for all sports and art is economic factor. If the economic state of people is not good, they won't think about volleyball or their NT ;) Also we must take into consideration some local factors.

  • I think first and the most important factor not only for volleyball but for all sports and art is economic factor. If the economic state of people is not good, they won't think about volleyball or their NT.

    Hmm, I'm not sure with that... In the past, teams from socialistic countries had very good volleyball (also football or handball) teams: Poland, USSR, Romania, Czechoslovakia etc, although people in those countries didn't have especially great life.
    Because of the sport, they sometimes could have felt better than citizens from the so-called "West". Sport makes us forget about our daily problems. Right now, e.g. Cuba is isolated country, but through the volleyball or basketball they are able to show themselves to all the world.

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • Strong Collegiate leagues in the US like the NCAA help the US women/men national teams a lot. This is the point where they get to be discovered for the national team since the US doesn't have a professional league. Ofcourse, there are Universities who are famous of producing great players like Stanford with Tom, Nnamani, Walsh, Richards, Akinradewo....Nebraska with Metcalf, Larson, Pavan, Stalls... Penn State with Fawcett, Hodge, Harmotto... Long Beach with Haneef-Park, Scott-Arruda... Hawaii with Ahmow-Santos, Bown, Willoughby etc.


    However, I believe that the support of the government for the sport speaks a lot. Like Brazil, they are very strong be it in the adult or youth teams since they can practically join any tournament that they want to. I don't know with the US but it seemed that the victory of the US teams(indoor and beach) in the Olympic games trigerred such support. More clubs are now formed and its a good indication.


    Ofcourse, I would have hoped for a professsional league in the US. Should a league be formed, it would definitely help the federation more since players doesn't have to go overseas. Reality is, since the US doesn't have one, some volleyball standouts are opting on not pursuing the sport after college.

    "[size=8]It's years and years of work and sacrifice and dedication. Along with a lot of these girls, we've sweat and we've bled and we've cried together in past Olympics. It just brought tears to my eyes, & I'm more than thrilled. This will be forever." -LOGAN MAILE LEI TOM (Silver Medallist - 2008 Beijing & 2012 London Olympic Games, 2011 World Cup runner up, 2003 & 2007 World Cup 3rd place, 2002 World Champs runner up, 4-time World GrandPrix Champs)

  • Hmm, I'm not sure with that... In the past, teams from socialistic countries had very good volleyball (also football or handball) teams: Poland, USSR, Romania, Czechoslovakia etc, although people in those countries didn't have especially great life.
    .


    Well, But they thought they had great life :D You know I mean there wasn't big eceonomic difference among people.



  • I totally disagree about volleyball been popular here in the USA.


    How could be a popular sport when you have to struggle to watch the NT team playing live on national television? :wall:


    How could be a popular sport if almost nobody knows about Karl Kiraly or his achievements? :what:


    How could be a popular sport when at the Olympics no more that four matches were live broadcasting? Most of the countries participating in WL or GP broadcast live the competitions; it does not matter the Time Zone differences. Ask people in Brazil, Cuba, Poland, China, or Japan if they hesitate to wake up at 3:00 am to see a volleyball match live on TV.


    Popularity cannot be measure like counting apples.


    Yes, there are a lot of young girls playing volley, but it does not mean that the sport is even close to be popular.


    Yes, there are a lot of college teams and leagues, but who does know about it?


    Or better who does know the rules of the sport? I have met a lot of friends that think that I am a freak because I like volley and follow the international competitions while they prefer basketball or football.
    Volley here in the USA is still a sport for elites. There are a lot of people here that die to play Lacrosse, is it a popular sport? I do not believe so.
    Popularity means to me: setting a volleyball net in a suburban street and playing volley stopping every time a car is passing by. It has the same meaning for boys playing soccer in Rio’s favelas or for Cubans or Dominicans boys playing baseball in the streets of Havana or Santo Domingo.

  • So for me, trainning hard, trainning culture, investment in younger categories, good coaches and players in a strong league is really important


    Up to that, of course, making the sport popular in your country is very important, cause makes your people wanna play....makes new people wanna follow, more investments and so on...
    It's everything a cicle!!!!

    :teach: You got it, straight to the point.