Turkey NT 2011

Yes yes, I I thought that she was more youth

I think that Hanikoglu she would comeback to NT team. In past she played on high level. Sometimes this comebacks are successful.

Quote from StarNight

serdar

Actually Gözde-Esra duo will replace back row quite good but what about front side?There will be big attack and block problem i guess,moreover all european countries can take precautions to stop Neslihan and with delays in receptions you can't use Eda well too so Neriman must be in starting six beside Gözde in my opinion her defence is quite good in Sopot but Motta must care with her reception this summer.I don't think that Motta will play with Gözde-Esra duo because when he was the coach of Eczacıbaşı Stacey Gordon was always scorer beside Ivana & Metcalf.

jaco

Neslihan's left side attack is really weak beside right side,it's a big danger to use her as OH

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I don't agree with you about attack and block problem. First of all blocking skill is not completely correlated with height so short spiker= bad blocker and vice versa. As you see at Championship League mathces, Gozde has really good block performance. Esra is also not lower than average at blocking. Moreover, Naz is best blocker among setters. In this regard, while you have a extra good blocking setter you can compensate short OHs. Since Neriman is not and exceptional blocker(0,37 per set in polish leaguer)

About attacking, Neslihan is still unstoppable, although rivals make precautions for Neslihan no team succeed yet
it is not hard to score with solid receiving and a setter such Naz who loves playing with MB.

Neriman is doing good job at Poland while she is opposite player but i don't remember an outstanding performance while she is OH nowadays So for me neriman and seda is only good substitutes for Neslihan for this moment. I wish also convert all good opps to OH. I would love interchanging Seda and Neriman to one OH such as Tom Logan But it is not so easy unfortunately.

All in all, receiving and defence advantage mustn't be sacrifice in order to take some attack support

Quote from Winrip

Can we take a medal next European championship? (gold, silver, bronze) what is your opinion?

I think there is really big possibility. For me favourites are Italy, Germany and Russia, but Turkey is not really worse than Germany IMO. I think it is really possible to have even silver.

Quote from jaco

I think there is really big possibility. For me favourites are Italy, Germany and Russia, but Turkey is not really worse than Germany IMO. I think it is really possible to have even silver.

We are in a hard group in ECH.Russia,Italy,The Netherlands,Croatia..Germany is more lucky for a medal..

Turkey is in Pool B with Italy, Croatia and Azerbaijan. It will be very interesting to see how Azerbaijan performs after all of the exposure and development that their league and players got this season. Also, who will come back to play for Croatia? If they get Poljak and Osmokrović back it could make their pool very interesting. IMO, Russia and Italy will consistently beat Turkey. Right now I'd place Turkey at around the same level as the Netherlands, Poland, Serbia, and Germany. Too many good teams in one continent!!

Quote from StarNight

serdar

Our volleyball understanding is totally diffrent,first of all i don't support Naz as a first setter in NT,yea she has a nice block and most of MB's can't block like but her sets are disaster for me especially to Gözde and Esra.Her sets to left side is totally disaster,high and slow.Especially Gözde likes to play with fast sets and Esra can't avoid opponents blocks easily with Naz coz she is raising the ball higher to 3-4 metres to Esra sometimes and the result is disaster many times block or fault.I would prefer a faster team with Nilay or Özge.And i don't agree that Naz doesn't prefer to use middles common maybe while only in good receptions.A good setter must use middle more common your reception is good or not.Therefore Özge has good block skills too.

Gözde is quite good in block but i don't agree Esra has a big problem in blocking and she is not helping to middles (Only waiting in her own side) Also can't jump well too.Neriman is way better in blocking.Gizem and Gözde can replace Neriman some positions in reception when it is neccessary but i think she will improve her reception this summer.Seda's spike technic and timing is totally wrong for left side but Neriman's technic is quite coherent.I see good performances in both positions this season in Plus Liga

Nowadays noone is unstoppable i guess.I can add here Gamova too.If she was unstopabble,Russia and Dinamo Moscow would take all cups in history anyway,Neslihan is always facing with double or tripple blocks and defence can take her spikes easily sometimes in europe and she is starting to do faults very common feint(plase ) attacks vs vs.

If you can't kill the attacks,reception is really unvaluable,that's why i don't wanna see Gözde and Esra in field at same time.Gözde has a great shape but Esra I think she is a good subsitituon player for reception and defence

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Yes, you are right we have completely point of view at volleyball.

About Naz, i won't insist, i think Naz's slot in starting six is beyond dispute. There is such a clear difference between Naz and other setter like Nilay and Ozge according to setting skills, serving and blocking element. So i can't debate in such obvious case.

About Neriman, firstly, she is not block machine whereas Esra is not such a big gap front of the net since she has good timing altho her weight. So it is unnecessary to replace Esra with Neriman. It won't get a big blocking advantage. Since blocking is never one of the first expectation from an OH, blocking is helping element.

Also about Neriman's technique, we are thinking totally in different ways. Her spike from left side is just average. And when you check stats after her being OH, her spiking ratio is decrease to %30-35 Another point you missed is that receiving is not something you could be improve in one summer camp. So Neriman won't be an expert at receiving in a few months later

you said: "If you can't kill the attacks,reception is really unvaluable" but vice versa is worse!when you look at the roster of notable NT. Noone can compensate 2 opposite in field at the same time. They all need two receiver. Look at Poland, they get bronze medal with 2 short receiver OH. Germany has also play with short spikers and score with opposite and MBs. And we have better Opp, and as good as MBs than Germany. Serbia also tried to use to opposite and they fail as expected.

So i think what Turkey must do is use both Esra and Neriman instead of converting Opps

Quote from serdar

you said: "If you can't kill the attacks,reception is really unvaluable" but vice versa is worse!when you look at the roster of notable NT. Noone can compensate 2 opposite in field at the same time. They all need two receiver. Look at Poland, they get bronze medal with 2 short receiver OH. Germany has also play with short spikers and score with opposite and MBs. And we have better Opp, and as good as MBs than Germany. Serbia also tried to use to opposite and they fail as expected.

So i think what Turkey must do is use both Esra and Neriman instead of converting Opps

I disagree. I think you only need to have one OH who is a good receiver but the other OH has to be a big point scorer if you really want to be a top team. You mention Poland and Germany, but on the international stage neither of them are consistently among the top 3 teams because they lack a point scoring OH. That's what made Russia so good at the WCH is that they had 3 OPP's on the floor scoring points with Kosheleva, Gamova and Solokova!! Brazil was able to win gold because they moved Mari to the OH and got the silver at the WCH with Natalia as OH and they still had Sheilla at OPP. I'm not saying reception is not important but I think the libero has to be able to compensate for one of the outside hitters.

Quote from StarNight

I totally agree with you TheUSAFAN you just expressed my feelings If Turkey wasn't successful in previous 5-6 years the main cause was
the lack of attacker beside Neslihan but when i look 2010 WCH there was always one scorer OH in field.Seda was the reason of China victory also Neriman was the MVP of Germany match and if they weren't in field Neslihan wouldn't attack easy,i witnessed that she can hit to single blocks previous year but before she faced with always double or triple blocks Reception is important all know but if a team win match the reason is %70-80 about attack.The biggest example is Russia,2 recievers but great attack power.Actually i don't think that Turkey's reception was not bad at all.Neriman stayed at bench all season opposite but she impressed me with her performance,she will be much better I know that Gizem and Gözde can replace Neriman some positions in reception like what they do to Nikolic right now in Vakıfbank GSTT

@ USAFAN, if you don't like my Germany and Poland example you may count Italy? They are consistently top teams. And they were get great result in important tournament with short receiving spiker Piccinini and Del core. And when i watch Del Core in eczacibasi, i don't see big difference between her and Esra, even Esra's receiving and defence abbilities better, and not worse attacker than her. The same with Gozde and Piccinini. Yes, Piccinini may be a better attacker but she is not also well known with attacking abilities than her receiving skills.

And for Russia and Brasil examples; First of all, Russia doesn't play with 3 opposites, Sokolova is a very good all-around OH. And Kosheleva is exceptional spiker, In last WCH, she was besst spiker with %53.88 and %48.07 in receiving and in 2009 Grandprix, she was again best spiker tih %56.06 so as you see she is a way better spiker and receiver than Neriman. Neriman played in Japan with %41.3 whereas Esra attack with %43,2. I know that stats doesn't show everything but show at least something What i wanna emphasize is that Neriman is not a player such as Kosheleva or Mari. These both players attack incredibly and receive more than average. On the other hand, Esra is a wonderful receiver(she is best receiver in our league after Gulden, even than all other liberos ) and doesnot have big disadvantage in blocking and attacking.

Well I really want Naz and Nilay as the setters but it is so clear that Özge again will take Nilay's seat.

Quote from serdar

@ USAFAN, if you don't like my Germany and Poland example you may count Italy? They are consistently top teams. And they were get great result in important tournament with short receiving spiker Piccinini and Del core. And when i watch Del Core in eczacibasi, i don't see big difference between her and Esra, even Esra's receiving and defence abbilities better, and not worse attacker than her. The same with Gozde and Piccinini. Yes, Piccinini may be a better attacker but she is not also well known with attacking abilities than her receiving skills.

And for Russia and Brasil examples; First of all, Russia doesn't play with 3 opposites, Sokolova is a very good all-around OH. And Kosheleva is exceptional spiker, In last WCH, she was besst spiker with %53.88 and %48.07 in receiving and in 2009 Grandprix, she was again best spiker tih %56.06 so as you see she is a way better spiker and receiver than Neriman. Neriman played in Japan with %41.3 whereas Esra attack with %43,2. I know that stats doesn't show everything but show at least something What i wanna emphasize is that Neriman is not a player such as Kosheleva or Mari. These both players attack incredibly and receive more than average. On the other hand, Esra is a wonderful receiver(she is best receiver in our league after Gulden, even than all other liberos ) and doesnot have big disadvantage in blocking and attacking.

Italy is an interesting exception because they've had success with two passing OH's because they're able to translate their passing into points from their MB. Simona Gioli is one of the few MB's that ranks amongst the Best Spiker's consistently because she receives a large amount of attack attempts and has had a lot of matches where she leads her team in kills. If Turkey wanted to go that route they'd have to utilize Erdem MUCH more offensively, which doesn't seem to be in their style of play.

Also, Kosheleva and Solokova have DEFINITELY played OPP. Rewind to the 2000 Olympics and you'll see Solokova hitting from OPP and even from the middle. Before Gamova came back Kosheleva and Goncharova were splitting time at OPP.

Here is Kosheleva in Montreux playing OPP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWu5xeAS5Q

Here is Solokova playing OPP at the WCH 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1VVm3uKhvE

Quote from StarNight

Nothing is certain yet because everything become clear in NT camps actually it is sad that Özge showed a great improvement this season than last year in the same way Nilay did but smeone ignores Özge's improvement if she become to a stable setter her setting skills are way better than Naz.Özge works hard this season so she deserves NT too as other setters,there is not a injustice.

serdar

I see that you are comparing Neriman and Esra but if we look their club history Neriman stayed all season in bench and she played opposite most of the time so there had to be big diffrence in last WCH between their stats but they don't have but now Neriman is playing a great season,no match lack and her attack stats are quite good,other side Esra just played a few matches this season in Eczacıbaşı.Hope you can realize to the diffrence between 2010 and 2011

i hope you can also realize that from 2010 to 2011, one opposite cannot convert to OH

USAfan, sokolova played at opp position but it is only for that Gamova hits from left side, it is the same case with Gozde and Glinka in Vakifbank. But you cannot say that Gozde is an opposite right? and i know that Eda is not Gioli but she was also best scorer of team many times. So she could score enough.

No, but as I mentioned, Solokova played OPP in 2000 when Gamova wasn't even around so that Godina (who also played both OH and OPP) could play the leftside. So she has much more experience at the position than you're willing to admit. But more than anything I am giving her as an example of successful transitions between the two positions.

Interesting discussion going on here.

I just want to point out that maybe you should frame the opposite/outside hitter discussion in a different way. Not every player/team fits into the traditional roles of outside hitter (pos 4) as receiver/attacker and opposite (pos 2) as a non-receiving point scorer.

Sokolova with Russia is a perfect example of this. When she played opposite the setter and attacked mostly from position 2, she was also a primary serve receiver. Even as opposite she was a receiver/attacker.

It took Mari three full years of playing as a receiver/attacker before she really became decent at it. Pesaro and Brazil were able to survive the rough spots while she was learning the skill of receiving, but those first couple of years were rough! Luckily for Mari/Brazil Pesaro hired Brazilian coaches who were well motivated to continue the experiment. And it was an experiment, there was no guarantee that she could learn to receive/attack at a high enough level. The Turkish national team has been doing the same thing with Seda, but the Turkish clubs have not been so willing to go through the ups and downs with her (and she has been injured some).

Learning to receive after age 20 is not impossible, but it is hard. It takes a well motivated athlete, and especially a club that is motivated to go through the rough times that are inevitable in the process. This is hard for a club to do in a first division team with a lot of money tied up in their season. Every year past makes the project harder and less worth the effort.

I don't know if Neriman is so motivated or if she can get in a club that will help her toward that end, but if it is going to happen it needs to start yesterday!