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41

Saturday, January 21st 2017, 8:12pm

I watched Goncharova live in 2006 with Ukraine Junior NT and she was far from being an exceptional talent, she was just very tall and clumsy. At that time Olga Savenchuk looked much more talented....but I'm getting off topic.

The other question is, what has become of all those young Turkish talents of the last generations that are not on the bench of top teams?? Turkey always has good results on youth and junior level, but where are all those girls? The only one who seems on the way to become a star player is Hande...
I don`t have a answer for that.... :wacko:

42

Saturday, January 21st 2017, 10:20pm


The other question is, what has become of all those young Turkish talents of the last generations that are not on the bench of top teams?? Turkey always has good results on youth and junior level, but where are all those girls? The only one who seems on the way to become a star player is Hande...


as far as i know : some of those players who were supposed to be star or good players : Kübra Akman,Ceren Kestirengöz (from older generation),Dilara Bağcı(libero),Damla Çakıroğlu,Ece Hocaoğlu

Kübra is improving and regularly playing in her team.she was most promising player of her generation (together with Dilara and Damla)
Ceren Kestirengöz is not where she was suspposed to be..she is playing for Çanakkale Belediyespor .she was supposed to be star scorer/opp
Dilara Bağcı is playing in Nilüfer Belediyesi and is improving
i dont know what happened to Damla Çakıroğlu after injury who was supposed to be star OH in the future
Ece Hocaoğlu was a strong girl and playing well on juniour-youth level but she hasnt improved that much from that time till today.she is playing for Idman Ocağı now

Arelya Karasoy,Hande Baladin and Pelin Aroğuz were promising players in their generations..Pelin Aroğuz was a left-handed opposite and supposed to be a star opposite but i dont know where she is now.if im not wrong Hande was playing as middle blocker

in the newer generations: there is Tutku Burcu Yüzgenç who is promising
in addition : Tuğba Şenoğlu and middle Zehra Güneş from Beşiktaş

these are the players i remember/know..i cant follow all the youngsters
meso mi ra se beno...

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Canter" (Jan 21st 2017, 10:27pm)


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43

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 1:16am

I think Serdar explained earlier why it is difficult to loan such young players, mainly due to legal reasons etc.

Coming back to playing regularly in early age or training in a good team thing...Nobody is telling that a 16 year old player should look for a club to play regularly. Most talented players start training with their A team when they are 16-17 years old already. Simply, if they train with their A teams for 2 seasons and spent time at the bench, then they better start looking for a club to play regularly to show themselves. What happens otherwise is, players becoming 23-24 years old and still being called young prospects, while they are wasted at the bench of big clubs and noone knows how they will perform in a regular season.
About being exceptional, we are talking about worlds best national teams, I don't think they will get a spot in such teams if they are not exceptional.

If I need to give examples, Gözde Yilmaz's story is interesting. She was first loaned to Sariyer many years ago and she had a very good season and she played as OH there. Then she came to Eczacibasi and she was benched. Then she was loaned to Italy where she played a terrible season. Now she is back to Eczacibasi and benched. I don't think any of the top 6-7 clubs would like to transfer her any longer. What I'm trying to say is, big clubs should stop seeing these young prospects as monetary investments for themselves, but rather focus on the player's own benefits and development. I really appreciate that GS loaned Özgenur to their biggest rival this season to Vakifbank, because she would be the 4th MB and not get a single chance to play. It is unfortunate that she is not getting much time in Vakifbank either and that is probably her lost shot to break the leg.

I think Hande is on the right way. The problem for her is next season. They should make sure that Eczacibasi will make a transfer plan which includes her as starting 6. Otherwise it is better that she goes and plays for Bursa BB like Fatma Yildirim does.

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44

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:30am

I`m excited now, Guidetti understands what is the biggest problem with the Turkey NT. And I feel like he is sending a message to all the players already, if they want to be on the bench of a big team they won`t get anywhere ever, they will spend their whole career watching the games and not playing, and he won`t take those players to the NT.

a "wasted" player is Polen, I know last season she was benched for Mihajlovic. Did she bench in past seasons also?!, This season looks like she`s not even a starter, and that is a joke, she has the height and should have been trained to be one of the best, she was even in the 2012 OG, but in her home country league which happens to be one of the best in the world, she can`t play :down: ...another wasted players Yilmas, Meliha and so on....


A American player( or from any other nationr) will play around 130-150 games during their College Career (4 years) and this does not include any other additional tournaments they play during those years. And in High School they play around the same amount. By the time they graduate they are around 21/22 years old, and they have the experience of have played hundreds of games. And of course there`s hundreds of bench girls in the NCAA but of course they won`t become pro, only the starters, because you can`t learn how to play a sport just by watching and studying it, you need to play to learn. Unfortunately in Turkey ( and I think Germany and some others) that does not happen. All the young girls don`t get proper training and never get the chance to play.

for example,Baladin is 18, by the time she`s 21, she will have play how much? 3/4 games per season, maybe 12-15 games. :down:



The problem is that many young players are just watching the games from the subs corners currently in the Turkish league. I will call only the young players who are playing for their teams," said Guidetti.

http://www.worldofvolley.com/News/Latest_news/Turkey/79449/tur-w-guidetti---i-want-to-create-a-team-of-which-everyone-in-the-world-will-be-scared-of.html
I alway wonder how other countries were compared to the USA. In the USA clubs starts for kids as young as 9, then 4 years of high school, and 4 years of college, and then those who go further overseas and a very select few the NT. So a lot of years to learn and play. But I've noticed with the USA NT, the girls are usually 25-30 year old range.

So being 21-22 is too old or should have a lot of experience overseas?

So Turkey, Germany, Italy, Brazil, etc they don't have this system?

What do the fans overseas think about foreign players playing for teams in their country? Some times it sounds like some would rather just have their own players playing which I totally understand.

When Turkey came over to play in the USA last year,I wasn't impress with many of the players. There were a couple that I liked. Handle wasn't good at all and she had a bad attitude.

45

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 4:55am

When I was in Brazil 10 years ago ( I dont know if things changed) to become a athlete was very hard. Because mostly schools only had soccer court ( not even field) and some had volleyball and basketball court, but all kids would play just for fun, there were no coaches or training. Then if you liked the sport you would need to find a club to practice, and there`s thousands of soccer clubs, but very few for volleyball or any other sport. And to get in the club, you need to be part of the try out and be selected.
And if you live in a city with no volleyball club close by, what do you do? You basically give up on your dream right there...that was my case. How could I move to a different city by myself at 12 years old to play volleyball?l....there`s no way.

In the USA it is really really easy, because all schools (mostly) has all sports programs.

U know a lot of people are against College sports, because a lot of them wants to become a athlete and not go to college. But they are obligated to go to college if they want to be in the NBA of NFL. And a lot of them could go straight to the NBA and start making money and not wasting time in college, that is what Kobe Bryant said.

The NFL just created a league where high school kids will be able to go to and not having to go to college. And NBA allows players to be drafted after 1 or 2 years in college I think.

The USA creates a lot of really good volleyball players, because of the investment they make, Doug Biel, said the college facilities in the US are much better than the biggest volleyball clubs out there....remember volleyball is not a rich sport, but the colleges in America are rich because the money they make with football and basketball. Just looks the College Arenas and looks at the Arena in other countries. A Lot of arenas in Brazil and Turkey for example are in really bad shape, I cant even imagine what their gym looks like....

So the Americans are OK starting playing pro at 21-22 because of the really high level of the NCAA. And because I doubt any other country has this kind of system/investment to provide for their young athletes. So it is easy for a American to play in Germany, Poland and so on...because they don`t have any of this over there.

but when it comes down to Brazil, China, Russia ( and Italy )where.. they don`t get same type of investment, but the few clubs around their country are able to provide good training, of course the Americans coming off the NCAA are not on the level to play there....Only the ones considered World Class Players, or after a few years playing they will reach that level. That`s why you dont see players coming out of NCAA and going to Brazil/Russia/CHina right away, because they have their own young talent......countries like Poland, Germany and many others don`t have enough young talent due to poor investment on their youth programs.

But look at Bricio, she`s out of NCAA and is taking Italy by storm. :white: It all depends.


But look at Zhu Thing, she`s 21 and she competed at WCH, World Cup, Olympics.
Boskovic competed at the World Championship when she was only 17.
Egonu is only 17 and she competed at the Olympics


In other countries they are able to reach the Top Level faster than the Americans ( because of the NCAA)

46

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 5:09am

What do the fans overseas think about foreign players playing for teams in their country? Some times it sounds like some would rather just have their own players playing which I totally understand.


Do you watch NBA, MLB, MLS or NHL? All the teams has international players, and it is part of the game, because all the clubs are looking for the best players, and if happens to be from another country. I bet in volleyball leagues is the same thing. And they probably like it.


In the NBA, the Dallas Mavericks`s face of the team is Dirk Nowitzki from Germany, New York Kicks best player right now is 21 year old Porzings from Latvia, and so many others


NBA just announced the All Star Game votes, and a bunch of its international players were among the most voted. Antetokounmpo, 22 from Greece was the 2nd most voted only behind Leebroon, Zaza Pachulia from Georgia was Top 5 ...and so on...


So, I think it is the same thing in the volleyball leagues out there...

47

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 5:23am

Just one more thing, just like I said in the NBA there`s more than 100 international players, and you would think, how is that possible, why would they need that? if they have millions of americans playing in the NCAA....

But I think different than volleyball, in a lot of European countries, Basketball is a rich sport and they provide great investment in youth programs. The other day I was watching Chicago Bulls play, and they had a 22 year old from Germany playing..and I was like VOWWW....how can Germany have a 22 years old playing in the NBA, while they can`t have any 22 years old volleyball player playing in Italy for example....

There`s over 350 Americans Playing volleyball overseas, but let`s say if volleyball had the same investment that Basketball or Soccer has in Europe....a lot of these Americans would be out of a job, because them would become really hard for them to find a club to play in Europe.

OMG, I wrote way too much....Im sorry

48

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 11:00am



If I need to give examples, Gözde Yilmaz's story is interesting. She was first loaned to Sariyer many years ago and she had a very good season and she played as OH there. Then she came to Eczacibasi and she was benched. Then she was loaned to Italy where she played a terrible season. Now she is back to Eczacibasi and benched. I don't think any of the top 6-7 clubs would like to transfer her any longer. What I'm trying to say is, big clubs should stop seeing these young prospects as monetary investments for themselves, but rather focus on the player's own benefits and development. I really appreciate that GS loaned Özgenur to their biggest rival this season to Vakifbank, because she would be the 4th MB and not get a single chance to play. It is unfortunate that she is not getting much time in Vakifbank either and that is probably her lost shot to break the leg.

I think Hande is on the right way. The problem for her is next season. They should make sure that Eczacibasi will make a transfer plan which includes her as starting 6. Otherwise it is better that she goes and plays for Bursa BB like Fatma Yildirim does.

i agree..i believe there are lots of teams which will sign with Gözde Yılmaz in TL..maybe this is because of wrong policy of the club not to send her
on the other hand, these clubs are some of the strongest clubs in the world and always wish to have best local players on their bench
meso mi ra se beno...

49

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 11:32am

But guys we also have to consider that some players maybe don't feel comfortable playing as starters and bearing that kind of responsibility.. You know I have never thought of this, until I read Cynthia Barboza's blog post. After she decided it was time for her to retire, she wrote a very personal post, about the reasons and her whole volleyball journey (including some details about her and Kristin's broken friendship).. She explained how she was always considered a big talent, which was true, she was rocking in Stanford.. She got a chance to play for the NT at a pretty young age (for an American), and failed to make the cut to the Olympics in Beijing, being said she has time she's still young.. She also failed to make the cut in 2012 in London, but this time as she explained she wasn't that young or inexperienced.. She said she realized that she enjoyed inventing dance moves for the subs, and coming in to serve, much more than playing as a starter herself.. Not to make this about Barboza.. my point was.. Maybe some of those players feel the same, maybe they feel much more comfortable being a support to their teammates and coming in to 'save' the match, than taking the pressure on their shoulders.. Nilay is a very good example of a player who plays much better when she comes form the bench, and has proved to be a game changer (CL semifinal 2015, CL final 2011 etc..)

50

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 11:39am

seyma is the best example. she stay in back up eczacibasi 3-4 season and left eczacibasi and go for fenerbahce ( she know that stay in back up) and continues in fenerbahce. maybe she love photo, video and play in team with famous

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51

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 12:35pm

But guys we also have to consider that some players maybe don't feel comfortable playing as starters and bearing that kind of responsibility.. You know I have never thought of this, until I read Cynthia Barboza's blog post. After she decided it was time for her to retire, she wrote a very personal post, about the reasons and her whole volleyball journey (including some details about her and Kristin's broken friendship).. She explained how she was always considered a big talent, which was true, she was rocking in Stanford.. She got a chance to play for the NT at a pretty young age (for an American), and failed to make the cut to the Olympics in Beijing, being said she has time she's still young.. She also failed to make the cut in 2012 in London, but this time as she explained she wasn't that young or inexperienced.. She said she realized that she enjoyed inventing dance moves for the subs, and coming in to serve, much more than playing as a starter herself.. Not to make this about Barboza.. my point was.. Maybe some of those players feel the same, maybe they feel much more comfortable being a support to their teammates and coming in to 'save' the match, than taking the pressure on their shoulders.. Nilay is a very good example of a player who plays much better when she comes form the bench, and has proved to be a game changer (CL semifinal 2015, CL final 2011 etc..)
I totally respect to a player's choice. Guldeniz has done the same thing in Vakifbank for many years. However it is difficult for a NT coach to judge a bench player's performance. You can for sure take one of these kind of good servers to your team, but that's only one spot. For the rest, it is difficult to judge and in my opinion irrespecutful to a player who spent an entire season on the court, trying to prove herself. For example if Polen is cut from the NT (considering she played most of this season) and Hande & Gözde Yilmaz are included in the NT, I would be pissed. Same with Melis Durul, she spent an entire season at the bench and it will be unfair to see her in the NT just because she is in Vakifbank. I think Polen & Neslihan, or in the worst case Meryem Boz should be the opposites.

Btw, does anyone know where Ezgi Dagdelenler is? Is she playing for Iller Bankasi in 2nd division????!!! :down:

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52

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:11pm

I don't think Neslihan will be called as Guidetti already mentioned he will pick players who can also play untill the next olympics so OPP should be Polen or Meryem since Neslihan is already 33 y/o. I think it's really time to see how Meryem will do in the NT. I mean she was best scorer of the league previous season and now still attacks like a monster.

53

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:25pm

I think the OPP position will be the most problematic for Turkey.. I don't think Polen or Meryem are good enough for international standards.. Hande can play ass OPP, she feels comfortable attacking from the right side, but she needs to develop her passing.. Maybe Guidetti will try her as receiving OPP, and have Neriman as non-receiving OH.

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54

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:32pm

Yeap she is playing there, she is such a good example of waste of potential :down:

Regarding the post above, I really don't think that NCAA has a good level comparable to top European ones. We have an example of Didem Ege, she was one of the best liberos in NCAA, but when she finished her school and came back she could barely find a spot in mediocre teams and did not show a good performance in Turkish league.

One of the good examples of players who developed as a good player by playing as starter in early age is Kubra Akman, she was playing as starter player since she was 15-16 in Nilufer belediyesi, similar case with Eda Erdem who played in Besiktas as starter from very early ages and turned into a great player without being benched in big clubs. Meryem Boz and Seda Tokatlioglu were also always starter as young players in their club, Ilbank and developed into good players without being benched at top teams.

Although I accept that working with a good trainer makes a big difference for a player to develop as a star (Gozde by Guidetti), I still believe playing as starter in a mediocre club could help more.

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55

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:35pm

I think the OPP position will be the most problematic for Turkey.. I don't think Polen or Meryem are good enough for international standards.. Hande can play ass OPP, she feels comfortable attacking from the right side, but she needs to develop her passing.. Maybe Guidetti will try her as receiving OPP, and have Neriman as non-receiving OH.


I don't think Hande has a better reception than Neriman. I think Hande is indeed a very similar player to Neriman and she should be trained as a backup player of Neriman. A good prospect for opp position is Tutku Yuzgenc playing in Halkbank as starter, she is only 17 years old but doing a quite decent job.

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56

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:44pm

Playing is more important then training for sure. I mean for me that's like a fact and it's not only Volleyball. Look at how many young players are wasted in sports like Football, Basketball and also our favourite Volleyball. You have to be a starter if you want to be a good player. Otherwise you will never learn to take responsibility. I don't agree with Polen and Meryem Boz being not good enough for international level btw. But just look how Polen plays, sometimes she's really good and attacks amazing but sometimes she's just not reliable at all. It's because she never really learned to take responsibility, whenever she did bad she just got replaced. Also for me Meryem Boz has been attacking better than a lot of 'great' international players in Turkish League or elsewhere. Tutku Burcu is also an option though.

57

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 3:57pm

I think the OPP position will be the most problematic for Turkey.. I don't think Polen or Meryem are good enough for international standards.. Hande can play ass OPP, she feels comfortable attacking from the right side, but she needs to develop her passing.. Maybe Guidetti will try her as receiving OPP, and have Neriman as non-receiving OH.


I don't think Hande has a better reception than Neriman. I think Hande is indeed a very similar player to Neriman and she should be trained as a backup player of Neriman. A good prospect for opp position is Tutku Yuzgenc playing in Halkbank as starter, she is only 17 years old but doing a quite decent job.


Yes I agree, Hande's reception is on the same level as Neriman, but she is 19 and has the potential to get better in that element.. that's why I said they shouldn't move her strictly to OPP position.. same as Italian Egonu

58

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 4:47pm

i really not understand about meryem. the girl make strong games this season. yesterday made 35 POINTS against halkbank. she played very good against eczacibasi and etc. maybe meryem no play in big club nobody think meryem good for national team ? polen forever stay in back up and never played with 6 players and all think polen is good opposite for national team. polen is medium opposite i think if polen played in 6 players polen can better. but i prefer meryem than polen. burcu is good also. i think burcu will play in U23. ceren kestirengoz start turkish league good but now is in back up for elif.

59

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 5:00pm

i think Tutku Yüzgenç is too young for team A ..i dont know maybe as a backup opp but i think she has a few years ahead of her for team A..
Meryem deserves a chance
Polen as backup or the opposite...
Hande should be trained for OH position
meso mi ra se beno...

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60

Sunday, January 22nd 2017, 5:26pm

I agree that Hande should be kept as OH. I think her receiving is fine for an offensive OH but what worries me more is her limited attacking alternatives. She makes so many mistakes, she doesn't know how to drop the ball (it is often too high and easy to defend), all she can do is to hit hard diagonal and when there is a good block, she hits straight into it. All I can is, Barbolini is definitely not the coach she will learn things from. If she was in Vakifbank, I would have big expectations from her and we would watch her improving in all elements, but with Barbolini...Though I am glad that she returned to her jump serves because her floats were very easy to receive.

I think Burcu can develop to a good opposite. I think what Serdar meant was, she should be loaned again next season to a club where she keeps playing and soon she will be ready to play in international levels.

I'm slightly worried about Polen&Meryem duo because they are identical. Both have slow approaches, using their physical ability for scoring, have good serves, terrible defence. Turkey needs a different type of opposite to be developed for future, like Centoni or Neslihan, who has high technical capabilities, not only relying on physical advantage and can make decent defence.

Another point is Neriman. We all talk as if she will be invited to the NT. She had a terrible season last year with Eczacibasi. I don't find her performance satisfying in Italy this season either. She is getting far too many sets but her attacking rate is rarely over 40%. Isn't that pretty low for an offensive OH? I'm not surprised that Guidetti mentioned Seda as an option in his interview. I don't like Seda either but right now she is having a better stats in attacking than Neriman.

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