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41

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 3:32pm

In my opinion, things like shoes especially for an athlete should be more personal and never be messed with by NTs.

42

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 4:05pm

In my opinion, things like shoes especially for an athlete should be more personal and never be messed with by NTs.

they let him to wear his 'personal' shoes with covered brand, he refused. :rolleyes:

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43

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 4:38pm

In my opinion, things like shoes especially for an athlete should be more personal and never be messed with by NTs.

they let him to wear his 'personal' shoes with covered brand, he refused. :rolleyes:

Well, contracts are personal... :whistle:
If he has a contract then that is a problem. Freedom of choice should be upheld anyway. National Team is more about pride. Ivan probably thought he was okay with the outfitting but including the shoes?!? :white: Commercialization will only get you conflicts. This is not like club volleyball that you can replace someone who does not agree with you. It's not like he's skipping practices or doing something shady like what happened in 2015. :whistle:

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44

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 5:04pm

As long as Zaytsev (and volleyball) are on tv and the press, everyone is happy. Except the dinosaurs running our NT federation, as usual, but not even them are so stupid to lose Zaytsev right before the ECH and the WCH at home...

Kk15

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45

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 6:36pm

In my opinion, things like shoes especially for an athlete should be more personal and never be messed with by NTs.

they let him to wear his 'personal' shoes with covered brand, he refused. :rolleyes:


Since you ignored my post, I'll try again: "But what if he have to pay a fee to wear the shoes that suits him best? Do you find that right? He should pay for the right to wear the shoes more comfortable for him?
And anyway, it was just a temporary and palliative solution, since he should have tried AGAIN corrected Mizuno (and with no real certainties on the result) as soon they were ready."

His errors was in how he stipulated the contract with Adidas, for me: he probably – mistakenly – took for granted that he could had wear the shoes he wanted. May because he thought 'I'm the Zar, they'll let me' – another mistake, in case – may be because he thought 'damn, nobody will make a fuss for a pair of shoes!' , I don't know.
But that wasn't granted neither obvious. He did a mistake in not caring about the almost-unwritten rule of the Italian NT: if he did that naively ('it won't be a problem') or with the arrogance of being 'the Zar' I don't know – probably the latter – but in any case (and especially in the latter) for me it was a mistake to suppose he could.

Still, his errors is partially defendable because when he signed with Adidas the written rule was different (just 'social uniform' where mentioned, even if it was known that included also the shoes; but shoes aren't 'social uniform', since they don't even have the social colors) AND the contract FIPAV-Mizuno wasn't known.
Ps the rule was broken by other players in the past, like Mastrangelo. But he covered the brand.


To be clear, I'm don't love how Ivan handled the situation (and neither how FIPAV handle it), I do think he somehow pretended it was only a medical problem when obviously that is just part of the problem, I do think that at the moment he should have been the one to take a step back now, may be with the promise to work for the next summer for a different agreement.

But I also think it's his damn right to wear the shoes he prefer (and that's true for everybody, from him to Tiziano Mazzone). And that it's normal he doesn't want to pay for it.

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46

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 6:49pm

I'm not taking any sides in this, but isn't it weird that we have to be talking about drama involving shoes? Just pointing that out. :lol:
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47

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 7:20pm

In my opinion, things like shoes especially for an athlete should be more personal and never be messed with by NTs.

they let him to wear his 'personal' shoes with covered brand, he refused. :rolleyes:


Since you ignored my post, I'll try again: "But what if he have to pay a fee to wear the shoes that suits him best? Do you find that right? He should pay for the right to wear the shoes more comfortable for him?
And anyway, it was just a temporary and palliative solution, since he should have tried AGAIN corrected Mizuno (and with no real certainties on the result) as soon they were ready."

His errors was in how he stipulated the contract with Adidas, for me: he probably – mistakenly – took for granted that he could had wear the shoes he wanted. May because he thought 'I'm the Zar, they'll let me' – another mistake, in case – may be because he thought 'damn, nobody will make a fuss for a pair of shoes!' , I don't know.
But that wasn't granted neither obvious. He did a mistake in not caring about the almost-unwritten rule of the Italian NT: if he did that naively ('it won't be a problem') or with the arrogance of being 'the Zar' I don't know – probably the latter – but in any case (and especially in the latter) for me it was a mistake to suppose he could.

Still, his errors is partially defendable because when he signed with Adidas the written rule was different (just 'social uniform' where mentioned, even if it was known that included also the shoes; but shoes aren't 'social uniform', since they don't even have the social colors) AND the contract FIPAV-Mizuno wasn't known.
Ps the rule was broken by other players in the past, like Mastrangelo. But he covered the brand.


To be clear, I'm don't love how Ivan handled the situation (and neither how FIPAV handle it), I do think he somehow pretended it was only a medical problem when obviously that is just part of the problem, I do think that at the moment he should have been the one to take a step back now, may be with the promise to work for the next summer for a different agreement.

But I also think it's his damn right to wear the shoes he prefer (and that's true for everybody, from him to Tiziano Mazzone). And that it's normal he doesn't want to pay for it.

Hi @Kk15 :flower: . I read your comment but didn't understand the payment part.
I agree 'shoes rule' is stupid but I hate the idea that one player thinks he is above the team and its rules. If Zaytsev wins this battle and wears his Adidas shoes after this arguments, I wonder how Blengini will impose the basic rule ;everyone is equal in the team. I don't know. If Zaytsev is the modern 'Cinderella', every other player in this Italian team is modern 'Polyanna'.Maybe this will help :P

Kk15

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48

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 8:03pm

About the payment, it seems that his contract forbid to cover the brand. And in a contract to forbid something usually you define a fee in case that aspect of the contract is broken.
It's also possible that the 'punishment' is other thing like: broken of the contract, not payment etc...

Anyway, I really can't see Adidas advantages in not having Zaytsev at the ECh.


About the respect of the rule I agree, but I do think the shoes question is quite delicate
Plus, there was probably a legal escamotage in the old rule.
It's not a thing like 'you have to be back at 11 pm', I mean. I would have found that worst. Or also putting a red bull arm-protection, for example.

For me the solution was a step back by the sponsors, and Zaytsev free to play with Adidas with a covered brand. Sorry for Mizuno (which still had more publicity than ever xD), but if (?) they can't provide the right shoes...
Anyway also a covered mark is forbidden in the new rule, despite FIPAV itself offered that possibility xD

49

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 9:02pm

Ok the part I don't understand, if Mastrangelo had done it before , it must be an old rule. So Zaytsev should have known it before signing the contract. Am I wrong?

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50

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 10:59pm

Yeah that is sure, everybody knows that rule in the NT, even if it's not that clear – from a legal point of view – how 'written' this rule was. And how strict it was.

That's why I say his mistakes was when he signed the contract with Adidas, according to the information we know. That was the moment he created the condition to broke the rule. Rule that became 'harder' few months later, anyway.

Now I can't blame him for wanting to wear more comfortable shoes.

I wonder if at the time he signed the contract he already had the personal shoes made or not, BTW.

51

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 2:27am

I really think that this is handled poorly. I am not taking sides, just spilling my cup of tea here.

Zaytsev signed a deal with Adidas (a brand that I personally adore) earlier. I think when a major star like him signed a deal with one of the biggest sports brands in the entire world, everyone will take notice. FIPAV, by then, should have known about Zaytsev and Adidas partnership. Therefore, a meeting between FIPAV, Mizuno, Adidas, and Zaytsev himself should have been held before any contractual agreement is signed, especially for Zaytsev because no matter how we look at this situation, we should have understand that Adidas "owned" Zaytsev first. I don't think Italy & Mizuno sponsorship is something that happened out of the blue, there should have been discussion months before the contract is signed. Why no one came up to Zaytsev and inform him about the rules and regulations earlier?

And I do think Zaytsev has done an honest mistake regarding signing with Aidas (although I don't think it is a mistake, it is up to him what brand he wants to use and he gets benefits from it so why not?). Maybe he doesn't know about Mizuno's regulations earlier because he doesn't know about the deal that is going to be made between FIPAV and Mizuno?

The solution of that they came up with is pretty nonsense imo. Cover the brand? Don't they know that when you got sponsored by someone, it is all about promoting the brand. I think it is completely disrespectful to the brand.

Zaytsev can leave if he wants to. He still can play professionally anywhere in the world. And it will be a good time off for him to be with his family. Italy on the other hand will have to fight harder for the upcoming tournaments if they were to play without Zaytsev. That young guy who performed magnificently during World League is a very good prospect. Either way. Zaytsev is not the one at lost here.

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52

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 10:52am

I don't understand people which are defending Zaytsev :S National team is national team and there isn't space for personal interests. If you want to play for the NT you should obey rules that apply to everyone. Full support for Italian Federation :obey:
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53

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 2:21pm

This whole story is ridiculous.

ZAYTSEV is ridiculous.
It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.

Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.




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54

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 2:22pm

I don't understand people which are defending Zaytsev :S National team is national team and there isn't space for personal interests. If you want to play for the NT you should obey rules that apply to everyone. Full support for Italian Federation :obey:


I agree! :drink:
It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.

Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.




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55

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 2:50pm

All of them are ridiculous tbh!
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56

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 3:11pm

All of them are ridiculous tbh!



Yeah, if he didn't sing that ridiculous contract with Adidas, the federation would't have been in this ridiculous situation.
It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.

Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.




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57

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 4:15pm

That young guy who performed magnificently during World League is a very good prospect.
Who? :what:
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Kk15

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58

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 4:23pm

I don't support his personal interest. For example, I would have been terribly annoyed if he had put the Red Bull arm protection with the NT. You have the Club to eran money.
And anyway I can care less of how much Zaytsev earn or which shoes brand he wears.

I support what I believe is a 'right right' (in Italy I would say a 'giusto diritto', I can't express it in english! May be honest right? xD): wearing the most comfortable shoes possible, especially if they may possible avoid further physical problems.

Rule has to be respected, but can also be changed if they're not adeguate anymore, or if they're only made to defend an economical interest (this time, not Zaytsev interest, but FIPAV and Mizuno).
Because the rule about the shoes clearly isn't there 'so we are all equal' (like it is for the jersey), in fact everybody can chose is own pair/colors.
The rule about the shoes is there to protect an economical interest of The Federation and o his sponsor.
Which is totally right forme, but only until it create medical/physical problem.


That doesn't mean I like the way the situation was handled (by both said), or that I think Ivan doesn't have faults in the situation.


Ps Despite what I understood, the older rule is quite clear too, even if it uses 'accessorize' and not strictly the world 'shoes'.

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59

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 9:45pm

That young guy who performed magnificently during World League is a very good prospect.
Who? :what:


Ricci
It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.

Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.




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60

Thursday, July 20th 2017, 10:15pm

All of them are ridiculous tbh!



Yeah, if he didn't sing that ridiculous contract with Adidas, the federation would't have been in this ridiculous situation.

I don't understand people which are defending Zaytsev :S National team is national team and there isn't space for personal interests. If you want to play for the NT you should obey rules that apply to everyone. Full support for Italian Federation :obey:


National team and volleyball in general does not pay a lot though. :white:

Anyway, FIFAV was stupid for allowing economic ties with Mizuno for the shoes too. Not only they are hurting their chances to medal but they are alienating their players to avoid contracts that could benefit them as individuals. Would've been better to let freedom of choice to reign. :whistle:

I know it may sound stupid but Mizuno was a bad idea to begin with. Like it or not...Adidas would make better sponsors and probably would've helped promote volleyball in Italy. Adidas has the stores and the fanbase. Probably would help increase volleyball viewers when mixed with the football market.

Honestly, Ivan or her wife should be heading the PR Department of FIFAV. They could be the saviours of Italian Volleyball. You'll never know... :white:

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