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  • "triglav_kran" is male

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61

Saturday, June 29th 2013, 3:56pm

I don't know what's the difference if it's played 2 and 1/2 hours and not 2 hours. Usually, volleyball is broadcasted by sports channels and there is no primetime stuff like the news or some films. In some countries it's even more watchable than some films or something else. Ice-hockey is played up to 4 hours if there is overtime.

Matthias

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62

Saturday, June 29th 2013, 5:21pm

If They criticised the idea what would do Them Graca? Nothing.

So Their opinion is truthful.
Last week there was an interview in a German magazine with a Brazilian beach volleyball player who is now playing tournaments in Germany because CBV doesn't allow him to play on World Tour anymore (with Ary Graca's new beach rules, federations decide who plays, not the players as in the past). He said some very interesting things about Ary Graca. Believe me, if Ze Roberto said anything bad about 21 point rule, he could probably look for a new job.

And nobody cares for their opinion anyway because obviously they are not playing in European League, and I don't know of any South American tournament that applied those rules :roll:

Brahmin, the problem I have with the 21 point rule is not the maximum duration, but the minimum duration. It can easily happen that a match is over after only 50 minutes, and that isn't satisfactory for anyone except Bartek.

YavorD

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63

Saturday, June 29th 2013, 10:49pm

The biggest challenge with 2 hours is that relatively speaking you have a point scored every 30 seconds (total play and break to prepare for serve and substitutions).

If you go to 48 points (25-23 or 24-24) you are already at about 24 minutes, add in 2 technical timeouts (1 min each) and 4 timeouts (if all used are 2 min total). That right there is about 27-28 minutes.

Add in 3 min set breaks also.

So a 5 set match with each set going to 25-23 and 15-13 (without going to extra points), should go around 138 minutes, if all of the timeouts were taken.

If you say that it should be around 2 hours, you need to shave off 18-19 minutes. Take out 1 technical time out for the first 4 sets (4 mins), still 14-15 minutes left. 28-30 points need to be cut.

If you go to 21 (winning by 2) and fifth set at 15-13, maximum without extra points being 40 points, 1 technical time out. It comes to 23-24 minutes for the first 4 sets (92-96 minutes) + 12 for set breaks + 14 minutes (5th set) = 118-122 minutes

I would probably not make the teams change sides in the 5th set. If the match is played indoors, there is little playing difference (in most cases), and therefore a waste of time to switch. If outdoor, then yes there should be a switch.
The question I posted in the European League section remains - why don't they complain about tennis matches lasting about 4 or more hours sometimes. Televisions also broadcast those. And I concur with triglav_kran, 135 or 120 minutes makes no huge difference.

brahmin

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64

Sunday, June 30th 2013, 12:46am

The 2 hours does make a big deal of difference. What is the most popular sport in the world? Football (soccer)

How long does a regular season match take (excluding knock-out rounds for cups)? Less than 2 hours with complete playing time, halftime and injury time.

What is the maximum length of a Formula 1 race? 2 hours (race finishes at 2 hours running time if it does not reach full distance before that time)

I am not saying that longer matches are not exciting, they absolutely are. However, TV rights fees are a significant piece of the FIVB income. They will continue to be in the future.

But 2 hours is the magical ideal for broadcasting sporting events.

As for the 3 set quick finish. It happens.

Bartek

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65

Sunday, June 30th 2013, 7:29pm

for anyone except Bartek.


Under the article

> http://aktualnosci.siatka.org/pokaz/2013…c-do-21-punktow

are opinion the same as I wrote so You know... changes must be..
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



Matthias

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66

Monday, July 1st 2013, 4:40pm

As for the 3 set quick finish. It happens.
Much more often than the 2.5 hours match. And as I wrote before, the rules do not only affect TV matches but all matches including amateur and youth sports. There are no technical time-outs etc in the matches I play, we are done with a 5 set match in maximum 1h50 and a quick 3 set match in less than 1h already with sets up to 25, with shorter sets it wouldn't be worth for some players driving an hour or more to play just 45min.

Anyway, coming to another rule: in all matches/tournaments I've watched so far this summer, I've had the impression that referees were instructed to be much more strict in their judgement of ball handling. In the last years players could do almost everything with the ball, but this summer it's different. In the European League matches I attributed it to the (lack of) skills of some players, but I've also noticed many ball handling calls in Yeltsin Cup and Junior WCH, in the final there was even a lift call on a Chinese overhand reception attempt. This is certainly something I am in favor of, players on the highest level are supposed to have a very good technique, so don't let bad technique pass. Anyone else shares this impression?

gummibaerli

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67

Monday, July 1st 2013, 11:42pm

If the sole issue of rule changes is to make the match shorter, you may allow blocking on service as it was the case in the mid-eighties. OK, it didn't last long until this rule was reverted, but it could turn any match into an interesting kind of penalty shootout. :lol:

Bartek

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68

Tuesday, July 2nd 2013, 12:09pm

What about rule- ace- 2 points for Us, mistake by serve- 2 points for Opponent.
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



Matthias

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69

Sunday, July 7th 2013, 10:23pm

Interview with Ary Graca about 21 points rule: http://www.volleyball.it/notizie.asp?n=65848&l=0

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :aww:

He has exactly ONE argument for the rule: television wants matches that don't last more than 2 hours.

I'll say it again, of all volleyball matches played in the world, maybe 0,00000000000000001% are on TV anyway, no matter if it lasts 2 hours or more.

Bartek

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70

Sunday, July 7th 2013, 10:29pm

But FIVB have money thanks to TV not internet :D especially thanks to the 2 biggest TV concerns from Japan and Poland.
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



Matthias

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71

Monday, July 8th 2013, 1:23pm

Analysis of the match durations: http://wsvl.blogspot.ch/2013/07/vingt-et…des-matchs.html

They just can't let the rule happen! Many coaches, players, fans are against it, only Graca and his slaves favour it.

Bartek

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72

Monday, July 8th 2013, 1:39pm

I think You should stop miaow because Noone listen to You or Me They will do what They want. One opinion is enough, more from They same Person is boring.

You talk about it again and again as Fanatic.
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



  • "triglav_kran" is male

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73

Monday, July 8th 2013, 4:22pm

I think You should stop miaow because Noone listen to You or Me They will do what They want. One opinion is enough, more from They same Person is boring.

You talk about it again and again as Fanatic.
He is right, though.

Bartek

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74

Monday, July 8th 2013, 5:09pm

For Me and not only according to polish forums new FIVB rule is better than old. And We may write post by post forever. What for? One opinion is enough.

Behind TV stand big money, FIVB do what Person who has more Money wants.

Wild Cards for World Cup gives Japan TV not FIVB for example as in case when in Men's category Spain got Wild Card because Japan loved one of Their Players and more Japanese People watched World Cup in Japan.
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



Matthias

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75

Monday, July 8th 2013, 5:16pm

For Me and not only according to polish forums new FIVB rule is better than old. And We may write post by post forever. What for? One opinion is enough.

Behind TV stand big money, FIVB do what Person who has more Money wants.

Wild Cards for World Cup gives Japan TV not FIVB for example as in case when in Men's category Spain got Wild Card because Japan loved one of Their Players and more Japanese People watched World Cup in Japan.
You can't compare that. As I said a thousand times before, rules affect not only professional matches but ALL matches in the world, and for me TV alone is not enough reason to make a big rule change.

Bartek

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76

Monday, July 8th 2013, 6:10pm

You won't stop Machine. New, how good, will come.
Prediction Game:


Gold Medals - 14

Silver Medals - 12

Bronze Medals - 9


Overall: 35


Details



brahmin

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77

Tuesday, July 9th 2013, 3:29am

From Bartek, "What about rule- ace- 2 points for Us, mistake by serve- 2 points for Opponent."

Service errors are much more frequent than aces. I would think that 2 points for an ace would work, but still 1 point for service error.

A team down 2 points (24-22) has to block 2 balls (or aces or 1+1) right now to get back to a tie, but with a service ace, the match is tied. Gives a chance to the losing team.

Matthias

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78

Tuesday, July 9th 2013, 1:49pm

From Bartek, "What about rule- ace- 2 points for Us, mistake by serve- 2 points for Opponent."

Service errors are much more frequent than aces. I would think that 2 points for an ace would work, but still 1 point for service error.

A team down 2 points (24-22) has to block 2 balls (or aces or 1+1) right now to get back to a tie, but with a service ace, the match is tied. Gives a chance to the losing team.
The consequence would be even more serve errors if you have the chance to gain 2 points by an ace and lose just 1 if the serve goes wrong. And teams would generally try stronger serves with the chance to get an ace instead of tactical serves to disturb the opponent's play, so the game would become much more boring because reception will be worse, plays will be very simple...and in general I don't think ANY play should get 2 points.

  • "filedefener" is male

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79

Saturday, July 20th 2013, 4:36pm

Proposals by Hugh McCutcheon

Quoted

- Change match scoring to either best of five to 21 or best of seven to 15. (Likely best of five to 21)

- Eliminate technical time outs in 21 pt games (possible)

- Servers land behind end line (likely)

- Back row attackers land behind 10' line (possible)

- Any contact with center line is a violation (likely)

- Any net touch is a violation (possible)

- No open hand tips (possible)

- Narrow court to 8 meters (unlikely)

- Shrink court to 8x8 meters (unlikely)

- Eliminate overhand serve receive (possible)

- Allow liberos to sub freely (possible)

- (Additional) Penalty for missed serve (not sure)

- Free substitutions(possible)


Source: http://volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/4…sals-mccutcheon
"Lo sbaglio più grande e quello di credere di aver vinto prima ancora di giocare la partita"

Matthias

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80

Saturday, July 20th 2013, 4:49pm

Yesterday I read an interview with Doug Beal and he makes some similar proposals, but he is STRICTLY against making matches shorter. In fact he thinks matches already are too short. In all other big sports, matches (including breaks) take about 2 hours, but in Volleyball, it's possible that it's all over after 60 minutes and that is bad for the fans. Thus, he doesn't understand the experiment with shorter sets. Another thing he says, he thinks that it's bad that many points come from errors, and some of the proposals by McCutcheon are to avoid that.

However, I wish FIVB will simply let Volleyball be the way it is now :!: :!: :!:
I think no other sport makes that many rule changes so often :thumbdown:

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