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samba player

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Monday, October 22nd 2007, 10:35pm

FIVB Revolution = no more than 3 foreign players per club

http://www.fivb.org/en/Infomedia/PressReleaseDB.asp?No=15446&Language=0

No more than 3 foreigners per club, no more than 2 on court!!! :evil: :x :shock:
FIVB is just unbelievable!!! Why they want to turn the clubs into NTs?? This rule is soooooo stupid! :roll:

So this will bring the end of Volero Zurich, RC Cannes, Murcia, Icaro Alaro, Tenerife, Pesaro, Novara...

My compliments to FIVB to ruin all those clubs!!! :x :x :x

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Monday, October 22nd 2007, 11:59pm

well....
thats shit for us but to be honest its a right decision

fivb had to react...
"This proposal has been made after numerous complaints from National Federations who find difficult to have enough experienced players for their National teams..."

thats one of a few decisions i can understand even.
and who knows, maybe in some years we will see great new players and more equal nationalteams. For now its bad for us fans but who knows what the future will bring :wink2:

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Tuesday, October 23rd 2007, 12:16am

Quoted from ""Nastja""

well....
thats shit for us but to be honest its a right decision

fivb had to react...
"This proposal has been made after numerous complaints from National Federations who find difficult to have enough experienced players for their National teams..."

thats one of a few decisions i can understand even.
and who knows, maybe in some years we will see great new players and more equal nationalteams. For now its bad for us fans but who knows what the future will bring :wink2:


I agree and disagree in parts...
Some teams have their base in foreign players and that prevents young players of having their chances, but let's face it: if it wasn't for foreign players, there wouldn't be a strong league... And also, where the players that are currently in a foreign team, will play? A lot of countries don't have even teams that can PAY for the players...

At least here in Brazil I think it'll ruin the NT, because if teams hire the players that are outside the country, there'll be no space left for young players, if the clubs do not hire them, they won't have a job anymore and the NT will only have bad players (because they'll be the only choice)... And I believe that'll happen in countries like Poland and Serbia...

I think it may help SOME countries on finding players, but will be prejudicial to the other ones, specially if the players start changing their nacionalities only to earn money...

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Tuesday, October 23rd 2007, 2:15am

Absolutely stupid decision, it won't make volleyball more popular, like FIVB always says that it wants to be, it is bad for boh the big volleyball nations, and also for the others.


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Tuesday, October 23rd 2007, 6:55am

Lothie is right. Players play aboard make space for local young players play in local clubs.
The treaty is acceptable for me if it is applied in international games only. However, it's really hard to understand to apply it in national games. Unless FIVB hopes each country train their players without cultural cross, just want each team is pure. :lol:

samba player

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Tuesday, October 23rd 2007, 7:04pm

I think this rule will have really bad consequences for a lot of countries and clubs!

For example Serbians, Croatians and Bulgarians play abroad, because in their own country they are not payed enough. Guidetti explained that it is the same in Germany, that a lot of players aren't payed enough.

This will have two very bad consequences = a lot of young players will leave volleyball and some of them will switch nationality for money.

Another problem = some clubs are competitive, because they have a lot of foreigners. What is Volero Zurich going to do? Two are the possibilities: to pay sums of money to make the players switch nationality, or to dissapear. Cannes, Murcia, Tenerife, Alaro, Novara and Pesaro are in a similiar situation.

A lot of players became stronger (Serbians, Polish, Italian, Bulgarian), because they played in strong leagues playing with and against strong players.

Public will dissapear, because the leagues will be boring.

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 12:59am

Quoted from ""samba player""



For example Serbians, Croatians and Bulgarians play abroad, because in their own country they are not payed enough. Guidetti explained that it is the same in Germany, that a lot of players aren't payed enough.

This will have two very bad consequences = a lot of young players will leave volleyball and some of them will switch nationality for money.


Agreed. I know for sure that's the case in Serbia: most players only play volleyball because they hope to go abroad one day and play in leagues that have more money. If they're denied this possibility, for many of them the incentive to play professional volleyball will be gone.
It will also affect the development of young and talented players. For example, Djerisilo and Spasojevic became such good players because they went to Italy when they were 21. A few more years in the weak Serbian league and they would have stagnated. Signing experienced foreign players will be a priority for many clubs now, and the younger ones will be left behind, which is exactly the opposite of what this new rule is trying to promote.

samba player

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 1:34am

I agree with you Joana!

In those years I've seen how much Djerisilo, Spasojevic, Nikolic, Citakovic and others improved, because they played abroad. Spasojevic became the great player she is now, because her years in Novara (she started as a benchplayer!!!) made her improve a lot.
Serbia in 2004 was a medium team, then in 2006 became a good team and now it is one of the best teams in the World, still with many possibilities to improve. The players gained experience and confidence, because they played every week with and against players such as Sokolova, Godina, Sheilla, Glinka, De Carne ...
The process is continuing and SHOULD NOT be stopped as FIVB wants.
For example Jovana Brakocevic is improving day by day playing in Conegliano.

-Many Brazilians play in Europe. More than 50. They can't all return in Brazil!!!
-Where will Americans go? In the USA they don't even have clubs, because volleyball is played at college level.
-What about Hungarians such as Filpovics and Nagy? A return in Hungary is NOT possible, because there is practically no volleyball in this country. Same with Esko and Lehtonen in Finland.
-Plenty of Polish, Serbian, Czech, Slovaks, Croatians, Ukrainians, Rumenian, Bulgarians, Belorussian play abroad. All of them cannot return to play home.
-Plenty of South Americans play in Spain (for example practically the whole Peru' NT). Where will they go?

Who will take all those players???

Instead of developping volleyball, this rule will damage very much the sport.

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 4:47pm

i found some statements to this "new rule"

President of the German Volleyball Association Werner von Moltke:
"This suggestion wont be implemented so fastly. We are discussing about it and we will come to an agreement with the European Association as well.
Such a limit would be important for all kinds of sports though."

Nationalcoach of the German Team Stelian Moculescu:
"If it was 1st April, i would say its an april fool. Such regulation would hit everybody, but it would also mean that those, with the most money will have the best foreign players plus the best national players."

SCC Manager Günter Trotz:
"This suggestion is coming surprisingly and would hit many clubs hard but it has a logical consequence."
He brought up Italy as an example. Saying that the former worldchampion's performance gets worse and worse and that this might be caused by the great amount of foreign players in the seria a.


Well in generall the majority of presidents and managers cant imagine that this rule will be implented very soon :wink2:

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 7:13pm

Quoted from ""Nastja""


President of the German Volleyball Association Werner von Moltke:
"This suggestion wont be implemented so fastly. We are discussing about it and we will come to an agreement with the European Association as well.
Such a limit would be important for all kinds of sports though."

SCC Manager Günter Trotz:
"This suggestion is coming surprisingly and would hit many clubs hard but it has a logical consequence."
He brought up Italy as an example. Saying that the former worldchampion's performance gets worse and worse and that this might be caused by the great amount of foreign players in the seria a.

Let me see... italian team is getting weak? show me where... :roll: of course it is not like a few years ago, but then, a lot of teams aren't the same, things change...
And how come they're only talking to the European Association???? And the other continents who will be affected??

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 7:45pm

Quoted from ""LothiePG""

Quoted from ""Nastja""


President of the German Volleyball Association Werner von Moltke:
"This suggestion wont be implemented so fastly. We are discussing about it and we will come to an agreement with the European Association as well.
Such a limit would be important for all kinds of sports though."

SCC Manager Günter Trotz:
"This suggestion is coming surprisingly and would hit many clubs hard but it has a logical consequence."
He brought up Italy as an example. Saying that the former worldchampion's performance gets worse and worse and that this might be caused by the great amount of foreign players in the seria a.

Let me see... italian team is getting weak? show me where... :roll: of course it is not like a few years ago, but then, a lot of teams aren't the same, things change...
And how come they're only talking to the European Association???? And the other continents who will be affected??


He meant the Male Italian Team and i think he is right.

i dont get ur other question
Isnt it logical to first get together in the continental association than running to the fivb? They will consult about it and then it will be decided at the fivb bureaus. Same will happen at continents too (at least i hope so)

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 8:29pm

Quoted from ""Nastja""

Quoted from ""LothiePG""

Quoted from ""Nastja""


President of the German Volleyball Association Werner von Moltke:
"This suggestion wont be implemented so fastly. We are discussing about it and we will come to an agreement with the European Association as well.
Such a limit would be important for all kinds of sports though."

SCC Manager Günter Trotz:
"This suggestion is coming surprisingly and would hit many clubs hard but it has a logical consequence."
He brought up Italy as an example. Saying that the former worldchampion's performance gets worse and worse and that this might be caused by the great amount of foreign players in the seria a.

Let me see... italian team is getting weak? show me where... :roll: of course it is not like a few years ago, but then, a lot of teams aren't the same, things change...
And how come they're only talking to the European Association???? And the other continents who will be affected??


He meant the Male Italian Team and i think he is right.

i dont get ur other question
Isnt it logical to first get together in the continental association than running to the fivb? They will consult about it and then it will be decided at the fivb bureaus. Same will happen at continents too (at least i hope so)

I really don't follow the male league, oops :oops: But still, I think it's not entirely fault of a league full of foreign players... Maybe some quality is still missing...

About consulting, I wanted to mean that the European Comittee shouldn't decide it alone, and I mean if they really run to the fivb... All the continents should be consulted about that... I know the better leagues are in Europe, but still, it'll affect all countries...
Ok, so let's wait... I hope they forget that stupid idea :roll:

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 11:36pm

Quoted from ""samba player""

-Plenty of Polish, Serbian, Czech, Slovaks, Croatians, Ukrainians, Rumenian, Bulgarians, Belorussian play abroad. All of them cannot return to play home.

Hmm... I don't think that Polish league is so bad.

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Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 11:41pm

Quoted from ""Justyna""

Quoted from ""samba player""

-Plenty of Polish, Serbian, Czech, Slovaks, Croatians, Ukrainians, Rumenian, Bulgarians, Belorussian play abroad. All of them cannot return to play home.

Hmm... I don't think that Polish league is so bad.


No, I didn't mean that! I mean that many important Polish players such as Glinka, Skowronska, Liktoras, Podolec, and many less known players play abroad. It is impossibile for the Polish league to absorb all those players. Many young players won't have a place to play, because veterans will play instead.

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Thursday, October 25th 2007, 12:03am

Quoted from ""Nastja""

SCC Manager Günter Trotz:
"This suggestion is coming surprisingly and would hit many clubs hard but it has a logical consequence."
He brought up Italy as an example. Saying that the former worldchampion's performance gets worse and worse and that this might be caused by the great amount of foreign players in the seria a.

Yes, in Poland also many ppl think that this idea comes from Italy because young Italian players can't play in league and that's why preformance of Italian NT isn't so good.

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Justyna

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Thursday, October 25th 2007, 2:55am

Quoted from ""samba player""

No, I didn't mean that! I mean that many important Polish players such as Glinka, Skowronska, Liktoras, Podolec, and many less known players play abroad. It is impossibile for the Polish league to absorb all those players. Many young players won't have a place to play, because veterans will play instead.

1. I don't agree :wink2: Now in Polish league we have 10 teams and I don't think that so many important players play abroad. In 12 teams would be enough place for veterans and young players. In my opinion we can enlarge league to 12 because Glinka, Świeniewicz, Skowronska, Rosner etc = stronger and much popular league and that = more sponsors. But it's only my opinion and that doesn't mean that I agree with new FIVB's idea. I only wanted said that this decision wouldn't be so bad for female Polish League.
2. I think that about limits shoud decide National Associations not FIVB.

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Thursday, October 25th 2007, 3:04am

Totally agree with you Justyna.

and @ sambaplayer:
you said that players like Lehtonen would have to return to their countries, which have basically no volleyball. BUT just because there is a limit it doesnt mean she wouldnt get any contract with foreign clubs.
Of course some players would get a disadvantage but thinking of this rule more and deeper it doesnt sound so stupid.

maybe max. 2 foreign players on the court is too radical for the first time, but i could live pretty fine with max. 3. :wink2:

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Thursday, October 25th 2007, 7:28pm

Maybe it doesn't sound stupid, but it will cause damage to some players, and the most important - to some national teams. For example now Trento has 4 great foreigner players, Kazjiski, Nikolov, Winiarski and Grbic - and so what, what Trento should do? And what about the player which will be dismiss from this, his career will go down if he plays in another league, or at least it won't be the best for him, because for example Kazijski is sure that in Italy he will progress more, so it's stupid, about Nikolov and Winiarski the same. This decision will damage club teams, players and more important - National Teams.


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Thursday, October 25th 2007, 8:18pm

Here are some comments from Pascal Foussard (Tours Volley Ball général manager):

Quoted

« Lorsqu'un joueur est bon il va dans le club le plus intéressant pour lui financièrement et sportivement. L'équipe du Brésil, la meilleure du monde, n'est constituée que de joueurs évoluant à l'étranger.
« De la même manière, les meilleurs Français vont eux aussi à l'étranger pour la plupart. C'est là qu'ils progressent. Conséquence de quoi, le marché français est d'autant plus restreint. Ce n'est donc pas par hasard si les clubs de Pro A vont chercher des étrangers. Croire que la formation résoudra ce problème est un leurre. Car la formation a un coût important et des limites.
« Or, la restriction du nombre d'étrangers aurait en réalité un double effet immédiat sur le championnat national : l'inflation des salaires des joueurs français par le jeu de la surenchère et globalement l'appauvrissement du niveau. Il ne faut pas oublier que les clubs sont là pour donner du spectacle. Si le spectacle disparaît, c'est à coup sûr la perte du public et donc des partenaires.
« Un cercle vicieux qui causerait la perte des pays qui manquent de densité au profit de nations comme la Russie ou l'Italie. Il faut savoir que Friedrichshafen a été champion d'Europe avec seulement deux Allemands dans son effectif type. Plus que l'Allemagne, la Belgique qui compte beaucoup d'étrangers, serait en perdition. En quoi le volley y serait-il gagnant ? »


"When a player is good, he goes wherever it is the most interesting for him financially and sportively. Brasil NT, the best in the world, is composed of players playing abroad.
"The same thing goes for the best french players, most of them play abroad. That's where they are improving. Consequently, the french market is very limited. It's not by chance that if pro A clubs go looking for foreigners. Believing that training young players will solve this problem is delusion. because training young players has an important cost and limits.
"The restriction of the number of foreign players would have two immediate consequences on the national championship: inflation of the french players salaries because of overbids betweens clubs and global weakening of the level. Don't forget that clubs have to be entertaining. if entertainment disappear it will lead to loss off audience and then economical partners.
"A vicious circle who will cause the loss of countries lacking density, benefiting nations like Russia or Italy. Friedrichshafen has been Europe Champion with only two Germans in its 6. More than Germany, Belgium who has a lot of foreigners would be in distress. How could volley-ball be improved ?"

20

Thursday, October 25th 2007, 10:32pm

This is bad! What will happen with all the foreigners if FIVB cut limit to 3(2 playing)? This will cut the volleyball market by more than 30%. Where will all the players go? From Italy everybody escape to Greece, France, Poland, ... and from these countries and others....
I think FIVB will open 5 great leagues, they will offer better conditions to players. Pretty smart :(

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