FIVB Revolution = no more than 3 foreign players per club

  • A TV commentator analyzed the consequences of this rule.


    He said that there are more than 200 Brazilians playing around the World in various Leagues. I don't know if the number is correct, but if it is, for many Brazilians the new rule will mean unemployment. :mad:


    Than he pointed that if the new rule passes, Zurich, Cannes, Murcia and Tenerife will loose sponsors and will probably decide to dissolve. :thumbdown:


    He also said that Osmokrovic is trying to become Italian. There were rumors here that also Poljak wanted. It seems that Barun isn't very interested in NT too. What will this mean for Croatian NT? :thumbdown:

  • Maybe it will be good for a country like Spain. Surprisingly, Spanish Federation is against this new foreigner regulation. But, wether Spanish Fed do well their volley promotion job (I doubt it), there will be no problems to complete the rosters with spanish players. Right now in Women's League we can see one or two spanish setters playing all matchdays, one or two spikers, one or two blockers and one or two liberos. Teams are full of foreigners (not always top level) and the spanish players usually are "Heating The Bench" :win: :win: . Maybe spanish volleyballers aren't good, I don't know, but they have no option to progress PLAYING MATCHES when their team is full of well (or very well) paided foreigners. We all in Spain want a strong league, with very good foreign players, and four spanish players on court playing, learning from foreigners and earning money. Yes, we just want Glinkas, Jaquelines, Gamovas, Fengs and Kazyskis and we also want Rodriguez spiking decisive points, Moltó blocking decisive balls and so on.


    It's no my intention to scorn the foreign players in spanish league, but spaniards have their right to play volley, and nowadays it's very difficult for them.


    I hope nobody feels this as a disturbing post. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

  • Well, I don't think the problem is filling the teams with native players... but their quality!!
    Not only many teams will disappear but also the level of the leagues... hehehe


    Does anyone know if the rule is already official??
    I think each federation should decide for themselves... for example here, it's allowed only one foreign player per team...

  • Let's talk about quality, hehehe


    I prefer a weaker league if their consequence is a stronger NT. The good NT results attracts money, promotion, media and children. In long-term the weak league becomes a strong league, and then Spain is World Champion in Basketball, Handball, Waterpolo, Hockey and Silver Olympic medal in Beach Volley and much more.


    Is accepted that Spanish Football League is one of the best in all the world. So what?. Spain football NT never wins!!!!!!!!


    Have the brazilians (and Brazil it's merely an example :whistle: ) fear about some countries where right now there is a big market for brazilian players if the new regulation will be held? Could you imagine Brazil beaten by Spain in a Volley Olympic Final?. At this moment is just an illusion. Well, we beat USA in last World Basket Champs. Quality?. What about quality? Ten years ago it was impossible.......hehehe


    Two foreign top talents are welcome. We could learn (very well :roll: !!!!!) from them. And after, we could beat their own NT's. This is the target and I agree with it.

  • in which league,this rule is official? for example itaian legue? if this rule is valid,italian league will be so boring, now italian league is stronges league in the world but if foreign player gone,it will become rarely league :thumbdown:

  • This will be an italian problem. But, I think the "italian" average level is very good even in A2. If they complete their rosters with 2 foreign stars the big show must go on without problems. Usually the teams sign up some foreign players to cut their general salary cap. It's cheaper for them.


    Serdar, In Turkey Women's League is very unusual to find out more than 3 foreigners playing in a team. Is the turkish league boring???. I have seen Vakifbank and Eczasibasi playing euro cup matches and their level is very good. Very competitive. Don't you think so??? :roll: And turkish women NT is growing up more and more each season.....


    One data apart this issue. The big Neslihan Darnel-Demir will be mother of a girl. I hope she will be so good as their mom playing volley. What a great player!!!!!!!. Greetings from Spain :wavy:

  • This will be an italian problem. But, I think the "italian" average level is very good even in A2. If they complete their rosters with 2 foreign stars the big show must go on without problems. Usually the teams sign up some foreign players to cut their general salary cap. It's cheaper for them.


    Serdar, In Turkey Women's League is very unusual to find out more than 3 foreigners playing in a team. Is the turkish league boring???. I have seen Vakifbank and Eczasibasi playing euro cup matches and their level is very good. Very competitive. Don't you think so??? :roll: And turkish women NT is growing up more and more each season.....


    One data apart this issue. The big Neslihan Darnel-Demir will be mother of a girl. I hope she will be so good as their mom playing volley. What a great player!!!!!!!. Greetings from Spain :wavy:


    barazzo you understand me wrongly,ı didn t mean italian league is bad.italian league is strongest league in the world.lots of great players are in your clubs roster.ı can tell italıan league is harder than even championchips league.
    but if this rule will become valid,your league will get lose great level.so it won t be enough amzing ı think.
    and eczacıbaşı has 4 foreign players(inessa korkmaz,vesna çitakoviç,tayyibe haneef,nancy metcalf) and vakıf has too(reikka lehtonen,vargas valdez,slvia roll,olena gasukha) and fenerbahçe has 5 foreign players in his roster:oxana guliyeva,valeriya korotenko,marina tumas,kimberly glass,tatiana dos santos) :whistling:
    so you see our clubs have lots of foreign players.but not as much as yours :roll:
    and ı say again your league is great but if this rule will become valid,you will lost NAME as best league all over the world :thumbsup:

  • Ok Serdar. First of all. I'm not italian but I agree with you. :thumbsup: The Italian League is now the best volley competition in the world in women and men. And It will continue to be with the 2 foreign players rule. In my opinion, the promotion structures of italian volley produces a big number of "average italian players" with very good skills ready to improve them playing matches at top level. This is not the case of my country, Spain. :drink:. Spanish money pays well to foreign volleyballers and doesn't pay so well to spanish players. For example, now in spanish basketball clubs, the biggest earnings are for spaniards not for foreigners. And the most important, if you have the best spanish players, you have the best results. This is the goal of this new rule for all european leagues.


    The question is: Needs a league a big number of foreign players in teams to be strong?. Or it will be better a reduced group of top foreign players to be strong?. The first option reduces the national player projection. The second increases it.


    What we need? Weak leagues with eternal champion teams full of foreigners? Or strong leagues with competitive and similar level teams with two non-selectionable players?. In the first case, money just makes the difference. In the second, money wouldn't be so decissive. I accept to pay big salaries to stars like Darnel, Gamova, Giba, Kazyski, and others. The other money must be for spaniards (or turkish in your case)....


    "Lunatics is what we need" (Karpol) :wavy:

  • Barazzo


    Can't really get your idea.


    Does the higher amount of foreign players make league stronger or weaker?


    Does the higher amount of foreign players make NT stronger or weaker?


    Why the Italian championship is so strong?


    Why the Russian championship is so strong?


    Why the Polish championship is not so strong, even if Poland is the country where volleyball is more popular than anywhere in the world?


    What do you think about the Netherlands's method of creating the NT? Having the weak league and not spending much money, they have a very strong women's NT now. And men's team had won the OG'96.

  • I prefer a weaker league if their consequence is a stronger NT.

    The problem is that those two are not necessarily related.
    Let's put it this way: the Spanish players are not good enough, thus don't play. But if they don't play, they will never become good. It's a vicious circle.
    The solution is to start from the basics: get the girls to start playing volleyball, bring good coaches to work with juniors, organize youth level competitions and so on.

  • I get Barazzos point of view and i actually agree with him.
    He pointed out that Italy has many great ITALIAN players, thats visible from Serie A2.
    And Ok i guess we all agree that the italian league is the best right now. But we think so because many foreigners play there. that means automatically thats its a great league...


    I dont agree with you on saying that the russian league is strong though... there are 2/3 good teams but thats it. Its not balanced. And saying that poland has a rather weak league is in my opinion not so right either.
    There are just few foreign players and that makes us think that something is not right/ bad about the league. But imo its a very balanced league, having new great players coming up and great teams... And imagine if stars like kasia, gosia, milena returned...


    And the dutch method? No comment....
    Maybe its good for the NT but it definitely sucks for the league... And that method was proved not to be working lately anyway

  • Nastja


    You are making things even more obscured for me than Barazzo already did. We need to define (and agree with) some basic conceptions. And then use them as a starting point in the farther discussion of that interesting topic. That is why I asked these questions. I think that answers on them can be that particular point. Having read your thoughts, I'm adding one more question:


    How to determine, is the league of the specified country strong or not??




    Looking at the A2 serie best scorers. 1st Jovana Brakocevic, hehe. Then five more non-italians. First ITA player Lucia Bacchi on the 7th place having almost 100 poins less than Brakocevic.


    Who was the first, hen or egg? Do great foreign players make league strong? Or maybe already made strong league attracts great foreign players?


    Who are the main faces, the brightest players of the best Italian teams, Pesaro, Bergamo, Novara? Will that teams keep their level if they let these players go? Will the Italian league retain its level in that case?


    Don't be so sceptical about Dutch method. For their men's team it took more than 8 years to win OG. But eight years - it's only two Olympics. So they won the SECOND OG since the creation of the team. Who else can proud of such achievement? Now its only 3 years to their women's team. They already won World GP! Beated all world top-teams! They are on the way to Olympics...

  • Well, I'll give my 2 cents on this matter:
    First, as I said previously, I think Italy only has things to lose if the rule is applied. The foreign players ARE the ones who keep the level of league high. For example, take off Poljak/Rosner from Bergamo, Skowronska/Berg/Valeskinha from Novara, Sheilla/Mari/Furst/Wijnhoiven from Pesaro, and so on... what is left? To be honest, I'm not even sure that there will be enough high-level players left to fill the places in Italy! I pay to see the "average level italian players" you said. To be honest I've been following italian league for... 4 years... and haven't seem many of them. Or maybe I could say that except 4 or 5 that I can name, I haven't seen any.


    And as a matter of fact, to be honest, I always believed that italian players don't have many chance in the italian league because they aren't that good. If you are good, there'll always be space for you. So in my opinion, there's lack of QUALITY of players, not too many foreign ones. If they don't play as main players it's because they don't have quality to do so. See Giogoli, she had her chance and wasted it. On the other hand Vitez is doing a good job.
    I agree with Joana said.


    Here in Brazil the league is a s..., has only 2 foreign (Dani Scott and Indira Mestre) and we have a NT envied by many (not by me, though). And the NT was already good before our main stars went to Europe. Italy has a league with a lot of stars and also have a good NT. Volleyball in Poland is very famous, they have a big league (bigger than here, anyway), and they aren't in the TOP teams. So??


    I disagree when it comes to audience: making lousy leagues will make people give up on watching volleyball... there aren't NT championship during all the year!
    Also, when Mari used to play for Finasa/Osasco and was the star of the NT right after Athens, the games would always be crowded, it was hard to find place to sit. After she left, the crowd was smaller and an year after, when Carol Gattaz and Valeskinha left, there was 1/5 of original public.
    To have stars in the league is essential for the popularity of the league, in my opinion. People in Europe cheer more for their cities than for the team itself, I know, but if they don't see a competitive league and stars, I bet that many of them wouldn't care very much...


    Also, Barazzo, don't be so naive: do you really think that foreign players will "accept" to come back to their countries?? I am SURE that we'll see a massive amount of players getting double citizenship... Unfortunately, for most of the players, to be patriotic is not what matters, the money they can earn speaks louder. We'll see dozens of players stop playing for their country to assure their every-month salary...
    There are players that have nothing to lose becoming a citizen of other country... I'll take as example the brazilians... someone said that there are over 500 playing outside here... do you think they'll be back? Most of them have nothing to lose on changing nationality...
    So in practic you won't get stronger NTs... because there'll be a lot of players that will abandon it!!! But maybe you see countries like Slovakia and Spain with a dozen of "brazilian-spanish" players...


    And for one last consideration: I totally disagree (again) when you say: "Two foreign top talents are welcome. We could learn (very well :roll: !!!!!) from them. And after, we could beat their own NT's. This is the target and I agree with it."
    You don't learn from players, you learn with the level that makes you find new ways to play, and even more with a coach. If I wanted to learn technique, I have 26 dvd volleyball videos that I can watch and learn, and it's the same for them. To play high-level competitions and face difficult moments is what makes a player improve herself...


    Oops, it got big :lol: and it's just my opinion, that's what i think that makes me angry with fivb

  • ı absoulately agree with you. :drink:

  • Anyway I don't think it's a good decision. The best leagues will lose deffinitely, so the spectacors also will lose. :) And I really don't think this rule will have any good effect on the NTs. Anyway all this doesn't change my mind that the NT's are much more important. At least for me. :)

    [color=#009900][color=#ffffff]


    "I'm so proud that the fans still sing my name. But I fear tomorrow they will stop. And I fear it because I love it. And everything you love you fear you will lose" - Eric Cantona

  • Personally, I admire deeply brazilian volleyball, cuban volleyball, polish volleyball etcetera. Really I admire deeply every single player being able to play volleyball at top level not depending their country. The only good criteria for me is the quality of their skills.


    Lothie, maybe brazilian league is (as you say... :thumbsup: ) a ......., just because your national stars are earning big and easy money in European clubs. And believe me: is an honour to see Walewska playing here.


    The only thing I could criticize about the FIVB new limitation rule is their pressumible immediacy. With no adaptation delay it will be troubles around the world's leagues.

  • Lothie, maybe brazilian league is (as you say... :thumbsup: ) a ......., just because your national stars are earning big and easy money in European clubs. And believe me: is an honour to see Walewska playing here.

    As I said in my post, I consider Brazilian league to be awful even when the stars were playing here (they left massively the country on the season 05/06, before that only Sheilla, Walewska and Fofão were in Italy). Of course they are playing for the money that european clubs can pay, but it is also to get experience and improve their skills.


    But what I meant when I compared Brazilian/Italian/Polish leagues is that even if our league has poor quality and has almost none foreign talents, still could produce players that today are considered today to be very good at their position. On the other hand, Italy is quite on the same situation as here and has a league full of stars and with high-level, which is exactly the opposite that happens here. And Poland has a league that resembles the Brazilian one (but has more teams and some more foreign) and Polish team is not a "top" one.


    And see, I don't even care that Aguero and many many many others have become Italian, like Costagrande's sister who is already playing in junior category for Italy instead of Argentina. It only means that players are giving up their nationality for easy money and fame. The coach surely will enjoy it, because then it will be easy to have always a high-level team :P

  • Talking about foreigners number and quality..... :whistling:


    A yesterday's result in Women Spanish League SFV. See who play the match.


    Universidad de Burgos 3 (Herms, Ramírez, Hernández, Sanchez, González are spaniards, plus Miloserdova UKR and Seguí ARG)


    Tenerife 1 (El-Ammari and Carrillo are spaniards, plus Romina Lamas ARG, Ana Ibis Fernandez CUB, Vesna Tomasevic SRB, Mirela Delic CRO, Daniela Vieira BRA, Stacey Gordon CAN, Katie Olsovski USA).


    Yes!! It's not a mirage :box: . Unfortunately for they, this season Tenerife loses matches in Spain, not only against Murcia.


    I don't know really if Tenerife Roster is this season full of quality or mediocrity. In any case it's full of foreign players..... ;)


    And in this season, Universidad de Burgos roster is an unusual bet on spanish players with two veteran complements on court. First part of the season was very bad for they, second part is getting better......If the new FIVB rule is setted next season, Burgos will be a serious outsider in Spanish Volley. Or not. Who knows?