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Mamdani

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781

Sunday, July 12th 2015, 1:59pm

According to what people write here, France was very understimated in this forum. I'm sorry for that, because France has one of the best line-up in the world guys, deal with it! We have to begin to consider France among the best teams in the world. After 30 years of up and down, now France is going to spend the next 10 years among the best ones because they have young and very talented players:

Toniutti: I now he's short, but his hands are wonderful: he's a very clean and fanciful setter
Rouzier: good player, nothing more.
Ngapeth: simply one of the best OHs in the world. When he's in a good mood, there's nothing he can't do. A true leader, the only problem is the excessive self-confidence somethimes.
Killie: just like Ngapeth, he can do everything (he's good in dig, pass, attack, block, serve), a very good player in everything.
Le Goff: very complete MB who he's great both in block and in attack.
Le Roux: one of the best MB in Europe regarding attack, even if he has to improve the block.
Grebbennikov: simply the best Libero in the world right now IMHO (but I'm not the only who thinks so, Giani said that too and I trust him).

For these reasons I considered France the best team of groupe 2 since the beginning of WL, and we have to accept that from now on France will stay among the best ones every year, at least until 2025 (I repeat, they are all very young). Personally, I think that for European Championship, France will reach semifinals with Serbia, Poland and one between Russia and Italy.



A fair point. Now let me explain why I disagree with some things mentioned.

1. Well, in 2014 France finally "woke up" after several hibernation years. Of course, they have always managed to find decent players with great technique, but it hasn't always worked well for them. Since the silver medals at the 2009 ECH and until the 4th place at the 2014 WCH the French team had been, more or less, idle.

2. I agree about the qualities of Grebennikov, Toniutti, Le Roux, and even Le Goff. However, Ngapeth and Rouzier remain somewhat risky and depend a lot on a good day match routine. They have been surprisingly consistent in the NT for, maybe, 2 years in a row now, which is an impressive, lone fact. I can't predict how long it will continue. However, I also tend to disagree Ngapeth is a leader of this team. To me, they have no obvious leader, but rather a group of players sacrificing themselves for the team's goal. Last about individual skills, Tillie is a great receiver and a reliable player overall, but he can't do everything. I mean, usually his role is a bit restricted and can rarely carry the whole team forward (which, of course, he hasn't felt the need to do yet).

3. 2025 is a bit far away in the future :D

Having said that, I want to state France have never really been undersetimated here. They remind me of Bulgaria a lot, only in terms of history and performance, of course, not of style, which means they show up with good stuff occasionally. I wrote it last night already, I feel different about them now, this game they are displaying belongs to the world's elite, no question about that. But they weren't always mentioned among the favourites for any title just because we were never sure if they will shine brightly just then. I seriously doubt any coach, player, or fan was ever OK and would gladly accept to play against France, not in the last 15 years, surely not now. But even this group of players around Laurent Tillie needs to win some medals, just like Konstantinov-Kaziyski's Bulgaria and Antiga-Kieffer-Granvorka's France did. It's pretty much the same with the Iranian team, we've had the discussion earlier.

But to sum up, yes, I even think 2014 was the time when France officially stepped inside the world's elite. We all know how thin the ice over there on the top is ;)
In 2014 France woke up as you said, but until now I was not sure that it wasn't a flash in the pan, because all along its history, France usually makes a great tournament each 4,5 years and in the meantime it comes back in mediocrity. The reason why France has been very incosistent and discontinuous it was because France always had great players (Antiga, Granoworka, Fabiani) among very poor players (on the contrary Bulgaria had always great line-ups in my opinion with 6,7 great players, and with some up and downs has always been among the top teams of volleyball, since the time of Zlatanov father and even before, France no).
Now France has 7 very good players, that's why it can stay among the elite of volleyball, until 2025 because (as I said before) they are all young :thumbup:
Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter




kepa1

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782

Sunday, July 12th 2015, 3:03pm

Toafa Takaniko is another classy setter and I would gladly take him instead of Jaumel. And in recent history France have come up with other great names on the playmaker's position. Pujol, Bazin, de Kergret, Chambertin. Even Le Marrec wasn't bad. Patin is another story, though ;)
And we must not forget Raphael Redwitz who took the French nationality, played some mathces a few years ago but, sadly, was soon dismissed by coach Laurent Tillie.

raylight

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783

Sunday, July 12th 2015, 4:04pm

When we beat them 4 times out of 5 in the previous 3 years and Ngapeth cried in Sofia, were they with far better players? They do not have better players /except Ngapeth in the abscence of Sokolov/. They have balance on all elements, but are not stronger than us, Poland, Russia and so on. We played at very low level and that made the difference in this match. Very poor reception /WHICH IS TRAINABLE AND WE HAD MUCH BETTER RECEPTION WITH STOYCHEV WITH THE SAME PLAYERS/ and a lot of errors in attack and serve, that made it. Blaming the players is just not knowing how a system works, who builds it and how it achieves stability. All managers who know nothing about managing blame the workers the same way and 94% of the errors come from the management or the system designed by them.



Mhm, I completely agree with triglav_kran that you will probably never look at the Bulgarian side objectively. Even if they are in top shape, there are sometimes just better teams and you have to acknowledge that. Also, the French team back in 2012 was a different one (game style, confidence, half of the players, coach), so the comparison doesn't really hold. Even when they swept the floor with us today you still claim they are not better. Sure, Bulgaria played poorly, no question about that, but I am amazed at the lack of appreciation for the quality on the French side. A team that can change tactics during the game, always with glamorous reception and defence, and what I am mostly impressed by - the variety of serve types. The only problem might, in fact, be the short bench indeed and maybe this is the reason they won't get a title in a longer tournament. But who cares, they play fantastically!

I am also leaving the discussion about Bulgaria, let's give them time until the ECH and see what changes they are about to take. Let me just remind you how angry Lazarov was when Bulgaria lost to Germany in the first Olympic qualifier in 2012, almost immediately after that the head coach was fired due to undelivered results, but I guess it won't happen to Konstantinov for reasons we all know why. And to win the finals in Varna was his main goal this summer before the ECH. Which means Plamen has been miserably failing so far.
French team back then and now is much more the same as players in comparison with Bulgaria. Still Rousier, still Ngapeth, Tonuti from second first setter. We were without Sokolov, Kaziyski, Stoychev, Todorov. In 2012 we received much better their serve, we had 20 blocks, we used more surprise in attack /thanks to the reception/. Now we played poorly because the team didn't train and was not prepared. France is better, but our actual, OBJECTIVE level based on results since 2012 shows somewhere between 4th and 10th place depending on how the tournament is organized. 10 errros per set is not the real level for any professional player and is entirely fault of the training system, also that level of reception is the lowest we ever had. With Aleksiev and Kaziyski we received much better 2011-2012 and we didn't let almost any aces / most of these 9 aces were errors in reception/. With normal preparation for the match this easily could have been a tiebreak, and not that humiliation which we made to ourselves..
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784

Sunday, July 12th 2015, 9:21pm

talking about France and Bulgaria and their place in world volleyball... I think it yet again depends on what we understand by "top team", both Bulgaria and France belongs to top ten IMHO, not so much to top five though, at leats at the moment. What is funny, in this final we had two great teams, which I always consider as such, but which were always lacking ability to win (of course not single matches, but tournaments etc.), so maybe the only way for France to break the course was to meet with Bulgaria, who also has such a problem :whistle:

when it comes to France, considering that Poland, Italy and Russia will focus on WC this year, I think they will be main favorite for ECh. There is huge oportunity for France, Germany and Bulgaria here. ECh is not main tournament for Poland, (and Italy and Russia). Antiga hardly even mention it in interviews. I haven't seen any of our boys talking about it. They all about WC. I am not even sure if they will all go to ECh, or Antiga gives them some break, IDK. France, Bulgaria and Germany have almost three months for peaceful preparation and I would be surprise if one of them didn't take the title thi year. My bet is on France though...

about Bulgaria, I think, they definitely need new coach, preferebly foreign one, who wouldn't care about federation arrangements (if I understand Bulgarian problems right, they are a lot of like us before Lozano's era) and would make Bulgaria play more modern volleyball. Because, no offence, they play pretty archaically right now (but truth to be told, I haven't seen a lot of them this year)

meanwhile... USA team got stomach flu (poor, poor, poor boys - all my love goes to you) and Polish team has arrived in Rio today, where unfortunatelly they had some organisation problem with rooms, they have been waiting for rooms for 8 hours. BUT at least they don't have stomach flu... :win:

Mamdani

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Favourite Team: Azimut Modena Volley, Italy NT (M/F)

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785

Sunday, July 12th 2015, 10:24pm

talking about France and Bulgaria and their place in world volleyball... I think it yet again depends on what we understand by "top team", both Bulgaria and France belongs to top ten IMHO, not so much to top five though, at leats at the moment. What is funny, in this final we had two great teams, which I always consider as such, but which were always lacking ability to win (of course not single matches, but tournaments etc.), so maybe the only way for France to break the course was to meet with Bulgaria, who also has such a problem :whistle:

I would not put at the same level the history of Bulgaria with the one of France. Bulgaria since the beginning of international competitions (50s) has always been (with some up and downs I know) a top 10 team and all along its history has expressed phenomena like Zlatanov, Ganev and Kaziyski. On the contrary, for most of its history, France wasn't even able to qualify to the Olympic games
The best French player ever? Granworka perhaps? Great player, but not a living legend like Zlatanov and Ganev.

Of course, now France is better.
Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter



This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Mamdani" (Jul 12th 2015, 10:30pm)


chagrin

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786

Monday, July 13th 2015, 10:36am

Breaking news from Rio, Italy NT headquarters.
Zaytsev, Travica, Sabbi, Randazzo are suspended for disciplinary reasons. They are on their way back home, will be substituted by setter Saitta, OP Nelli and WS Botto.

YavorD

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787

Monday, July 13th 2015, 10:42am

Breaking news from Rio, Italy NT headquarters.
Zaytsev, Travica, Sabbi, Randazzo are suspended for disciplinary reasons. They are on their way back home, will be substituted by setter Saitta, OP Nelli and WS Botto.

I just read that as well. I hope you guys will give us more information when the reasons come out.

Mamdani

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788

Monday, July 13th 2015, 11:02am

We are waiting for some news by the 4 players
Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter




bella

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789

Monday, July 13th 2015, 11:22am

I've read all 4 were outside hotel in the middle of the night while they supposed to be in their beds that time. Smells like Berruto is more and more losing control over this team, players literally pay no attention and have no respect any longer. I have nothing against Berruto personally, but I think his adventure with Italian team ended at least a year ago :S
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kondzio

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790

Monday, July 13th 2015, 11:39am

Breaking news from Rio, Italy NT headquarters.
Zaytsev, Travica, Sabbi, Randazzo are suspended for disciplinary reasons. They are on their way back home, will be substituted by setter Saitta, OP Nelli and WS Botto.

I've read all 4 were outside hotel in the middle of the night while they supposed to be in their beds that time. Smells like Berruto is more and more losing control over this team, players literally pay no attention and have no respect any longer. I have nothing against Berruto personally, but I think his adventure with Italian team ended at least a year ago :S
It can be a problem during Finals because team is weakened, but there are still players like Gianelli, Lanza or Vettori. On the other hand under this guidance team may not achieve any good result and Berruto can be fired soon...
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ravens#7

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791

Monday, July 13th 2015, 12:40pm

Is it a surprise? It isn't.

In Italy the legal process started already.

- BM (bimbeminkia = stupid female teenagers screaming when they see their volleyball idols) are on the players' side: "Ivan is beautiful, I love him; Ivan, marry me"; "look at Dragan, doesn't he look exactly like Bambi? Dragan doe eyes, I love you". They used to write thinks like these even on their wikipedia pages...

- Clever people are on Berruto's side.

- Volleyball experts talk about this like a miracle, which will kick off the worst setter Italy ever had from the hand of his own protector!

Since Savani's daughter is born and he left the NT everything is happening in that team. Berruto is having conflicts with Zaytsev almost always.

2014 summer. The team doesn't exist anymore. Baranowicz is kicked off the team becuase he openly said what everybody in the world think: is has nothing less than Travica. Falaschi doesn't take a step into the first group of the NT. And Berruto lost completely the control over it. 2014 WCH was simply terrible for Italy. Again conflicts between Berruto and the some chickens. Once he wants Zaytsev to play as OH and he doesn't want. Then Zaytsev was supposed to take Savani's place as leader of the team inside and outside the court, but his attitude is simply terrible. He is always a primadonna.

2015 summer. The media ask for a talented setter (Falaschi/Baranowicz/Giannelli) and he calls the youngest one, letting him on bench most of the time, but when he goes to court almost always fixes the situation. The media ask for Juantorena and he calls him. More conflicts are coming. 2 opposites on court. Zaytsev complaining about Berruto's monologue. Up and downs. The team goes to Rio de Janeiro for the WL finals and someone does whatever he wants. Berruto finds out and send them home. And Juantorena didn't take a single step on court yet!!! I wonder what will happen.

My personal opinion. Something got bronken between Berruto and his 2 most trusted players. He's looking for new solutions. They are not anymore untouchable. But they're stll his first choice. Look at who he calls in their places (Saitta and Nelli). There were Baranowicz and Falaschi. And Nelli is simply unexperienced player (but there isn't a real choice on this position behind Zaytsev). Travica and Zaytsev will be back soon. Not really sure about Sabbi and Randazzo. The first one does his job, but he isn't high level player yet. The second one has nothing special to me.
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bella

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792

Monday, July 13th 2015, 1:14pm

That's a terrible pity. Everything what's happening. I don't see this team going anywhere with Berruto. Kind of a bad atmosphere and stuff... Coach has no good ideas for this team, he lost it. And this stubborn omission of some really good players is a mistery to me. Hope they're going to sort some things out as we're all ahead of OG qualification, additionally Italy is one of ECh organizers this year, would be a real shame if things go nasty :|

I'm not saying it's going to be a big fail on F6, though it will be tough for weakened team to come back with some good result. And I mean the atmosphere around is even more problematic than lack of some players.
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kondzio

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793

Monday, July 13th 2015, 1:18pm

IMHO Berruto is too stubborn with his weird choices :wacko: Travica shouldn't be here any longer - Falaschi, Baranowicz and Gianelli are enough :wavy:

Coach should find his own path of selecting players and dealing with them, not hearing media's requests...

And Zaytsev's attitude is just like a spoilt child - if he doesn't care about coach's choices and decisions, then he should withdraw.
Problem is lack of reliable OH who can replace him :S

Maybe someone from their federation should clear all things up because Berruto is making mess with his plyzers and he simply canłt deal with it properly :whistle:

Voronkov had noticed before that things went wrong, so he resigned and Alekno has some time to repair it :teach: I worry that in Italy it won't change so easily...

Bad atmosphere around NT can even worsen things up, but we will see what happens next...
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ZMu

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794

Monday, July 13th 2015, 1:27pm

Does anyone know where to watch the replay of Group 2 final please? Especially France vs Bulgaria? :sos:

Bartek

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795

Monday, July 13th 2015, 1:28pm

Did Anyone really believe that Bulgaria will beat World Team No 4?

By the way- hello bi Rugby, I haven't seen You here long time.
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LeeParkHun

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796

Monday, July 13th 2015, 2:39pm

Does anyone know where to watch the replay of Group 2 final please? Especially France vs Bulgaria? :sos:


Same question :wall: hopefullly, someone recorded and uploaded ít on youtube @@

kondzio

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797

Monday, July 13th 2015, 3:25pm

There's a rumour that WL's elite will be widened to 12 teams. No surprise because Russia can be out :whistle:
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YavorD

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798

Monday, July 13th 2015, 3:30pm

Did Anyone really believe that Bulgaria will beat World Team No 4?
How cheeky! Of course we did. The same way I think Bulgaria will soon be able to beat World Team N1 again ;)

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799

Monday, July 13th 2015, 3:58pm

What happened with the italian NT in Rio is the proof that the atmosphere in the team is quite negative, ruined since last year I think. I don't really know who to blame, I think both the players and the coach have their responsabilities. Maybe the decision taken by Berruto can be considered too strict but it is a way to make the players understand their role.
Anyway I still think Zaytsev and Travica will be soon back, as ravens already said: they're Berruto's pupils, the coach didn't call many other good players because he believed in them... Maybe it is also a way to protect them from other criticisms as they're not playing well this summer.

There are too many dark sides about italian male NT lately. Juantorena, Baranowicz, Falaschi or even Rossini that isn't even in Rio (we've changed a libero every year since 2012) and now this fact... I don't know what really happened, I just have a bad feeling, our NT looks like a bomb and it is soon going to explode. Oh and let's forget any positive result this summer!

800

Monday, July 13th 2015, 4:20pm

Did Anyone really believe that Bulgaria will beat World Team No 4?
How cheeky! Of course we did. The same way I think Bulgaria will soon be able to beat World Team N1 again ;)
Some accounts are for parody and mocking. As mod you should care about this. Who is responsible more than you? :whistle:

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