2016 FIVB World League

    Quote from Matthias

    Brazil had shown their best performance now, they could impossibly show it again in Rio


    I know what u r saying, but it is not impossible....Brazil from 2002 until 2008, played their best and gave 100% every tournament and won almost everything for years...they won the 2004 WL and the OG....in 2008 USA won the WL and the OG....

    Huh, where to start from :D I'm really glad for Serbia, especially coz I know few guys and they fully deserved this trophy! Forget stories about preparations, no one is calculating in semifinals despite Rio is just around the corner. Just remember how Brazil - France looked like, players fought as if their lives depend on the outcome.


    I had an opportunity to hear and get some informations about Serbian preparation. Grbić worked a lot on a mental aspect because last year was pretty harsh and tough for his players. They were extremly poor on ECH, on the verge of elimination against Estonia, France trashed them in QF's. After that ECH OG qualies happened in the worst time for them. None of players were in good shape except Atanasijević, as I know there were some high tensions around the team etc. These few days in Krakow showed FIVB OG qualies need deep and detailed reconstruction as Serbia belongs to 12 best teams in the world.


    There were problems with Grbić's staff from the last season as Serbian public were against his Italian assistants. After 2 bad results board decieded to keep Grbić but Italians had to leave so this is 100% Serbian staff. IMO they created better chemistry within and around the team. Atanasijević came on preparation against doctors instruction and Gino Sirici was furious. Despite that Alex wanted to help but his injury gave space to Luburić, highly underestimated player by Alberto Giuliani in Piacenza. OK, he was new and needed time to adapt on life, habits in new country but Giuliani didnt have confidence ih Dražen's ability. He isn't the best OPP in the world, surely not even in TOP 30 or even 50 but he is a team player :obey: SKRA is getting excellent player for the next season and according to my information he should get a lot playing time in Belchatow :whistle:


    Lisinac is currently in TOP 3 th best world players and I'm probably the most sorry for him that Serbia wont play in Rio. Currently the best MB in the world :box: Uroš like Uroš, big energy, big future lies in front of him but he could be better atm if there is more will for work, practice etc. Jovović is slowly but safely progressing as a player but he isn't world class setter. Still he has a lot of oscilations in setting but he is still quite young for a setter.


    The best Serbian player in Krakow is, without any doubt, Nikola Grbić. I would gave him MVP award for his leader skills :rolll: He had to deal with Atanasijević, Starović and Petrić's absences, Nikić's knee injury in Krakow but remained calm. Big career on sight :whistle:

    Quote from rbdfabio

    I know what u r saying, but it is not impossible....Brazil from 2002 until 2008, played their best and gave 100% every tournament and won almost everything for years...they won the 2004 WL and the OG....in 2008 USA won the WL and the OG....


    In some way you're both right. IMO Brazil can't play better than against France in SF's. Simply I don't what could be better from that match. One Rezende's statement caught my eye:


    Quote

    We don’t have the talents that we had some years ago, but we have a great, hardworking team


    He said a lot in just one sentence. Volley is progressing each year while Rezende is still using same methods like in the past. He tried with Murilo as defensive OH, almost second libero - 0 major titles in last few years. He tried with Lucarelli - Lipe/Borges, much more offensive OH duo - 0 major titles. It's hard to find area where they can make big or modest improvement but something is obviously wrong. Last time Brazil won WL was 6 years ago if I remember well. Too long for such team... I can't say they'll play in OG finals, pressure is going to be enormous and except Bruno, Lucas, Wallace & Serginho I don't see players which are capable to cope with it.

    Quote from rbdfabio

    Kk15. U need to be more optmistic about your own team. Italy did not play that bad. They beat USA and the semi final and the bronze medal was really close. The biggest problem for them is Brazil...


    Today's match was never close except the end of 1st set. Then 2 mistakes in a row on, not that dangerous serve, and they collapsed. Also credit for that goes to Blengini.


    Regarding Italy Kk15 is being realistic. One thing is being a fan, totally different is being realistic. From my point of view, neutral, Italy doesn't have team capable to compete with Brazil, France, Serbia, even USA despite trashing them few days ago for several reasons:


    1. Coach - IMO Blengini isn't right person to lead such star-studded team as he is lacking charisma and knowledge. He did nothing what should convince me about his tactical abilities, even less that he can handle Zaytsev/Juantorena characters or "strip" pressure from players. It's idiotic to expect that Zaytsev & Juantorena are going to win matches alone on this level. It'll work vs Egypt, Cuba, Australia, even Belgium but wont against France or Serbia. Coach never can lose compass and that's exactly what Blengini did today after benching Juantorena as they lost one out of 2 attacking options. As I know he never played volleyball so might miss that "feeling".


    2. OH position - Juantorena is playing good in Lube, carried team in tough moments but on the highest international level can't alone. Lanza isn't high caliber player, that's sure. I know he has been injured but what's the point of keeping him in team? Same goes for Antonov, 3rd OH option in Trento can't be 3rd option in NT. Or can because they don't have other. Maruotti was here just to fullfil quote of players.


    3. MB position - this case was on our "menu" several times. Birarelli, Buti, Piano, Cester. Mega slow in block, not so dangerous in attack due tactics, while Piano was injured and Cester didn't get many playing time on high level. Italy is missing "killer" MB like Mastrangelo, player good in all 3 aspects (block, serve, attack) and with strong leadership


    4. Internal relations - It's no secret Zaytsev was against Juantorena's presence in NT. Only naive person can believe they've settled differences and moved on. I also heard rumors, from different persons which aren't connected in any way, Juantorena isn't the most popular guy in NT, including Blengini.


    5. Young setter - Gianelli is talented guy, for me the biggest prospect on setter position in last 4-5 years but... I would never put such pressure on 20 y.o boy. He had brilliant performances, especially for Trentino, but NT is bringing completely different type of pressure and what I've seen Gianelli isn't ready to deal with it. Experience counts as equal as skills in that position.


    6. Leader - After Savani retired I haven't seen true leader in Italian NT unlike in Brazil (Bruno), France (N'Gapeth), Serbia (Alex). Simply they are lacking courage.

    Quote from Kaziyski

    Huh, where to start from :D I'm really glad for Serbia, especially coz I know few guys and they fully deserved this trophy! Forget stories about preparations, no one is calculating in semifinals despite Rio is just around the corner. Just remember how Brazil - France looked like, players fought as if their lives depend on the outcome.


    I had an opportunity to hear and get some informations about Serbian preparation. Grbić worked a lot on a mental aspect because last year was pretty harsh and tough for his players. They were extremly poor on ECH, on the verge of elimination against Estonia, France trashed them in QF's. After that ECH OG qualies happened in the worst time for them. None of players were in good shape except Atanasijević, as I know there were some high tensions around the team etc. These few days in Krakow showed FIVB OG qualies need deep and detailed reconstruction as Serbia belongs to 12 best teams in the world.


    LOL. Serbia has had excellent chances to prove it belonged to the top 12 and deservedly stays outside the OG. It's not Slovenia who didn't even go to the qualifiers - they were there and the rest is their internal problem. The good thing about having the Euro qualifiers in Jan is that the players are in their best mid-season conditions. You can ignore the idea about preparations and cycles as much as you wish but for many teams this is the reality. There is very little doubt that teams like Brazil or France have the OG as the sole goal of their 2016. The players may fight for every point in the semi but at the same time they may still be lifting weights intensively during their training. Serbia had a benefit of not thinking about this and used it successfully. Think of Poland winning the WL back in 2012 and... how they were ranked at the OG.

    Very well said, a great analysis.


    Our federation is loaded with people completely out of touch with reality, emergencies are the way to change anything- just like Italy itself.


    Given our easy Rio pool I expect the same old trite scenario: erratic preliminary pool, unexpected but solid win in the QF, 3-0 loss in the semifinals and then another bronze medal match. Fanfare, selfies and Italy is saved once again. Who cares if the team winning the gold medal used to lose all matches 3-0 against us? We will win gold next time for sure.


    We haven't won any kind of gold medal since 2005, there's a reason for that.

    Quote from powsoff


    LOL. Serbia has had excellent chances to prove it belonged to the top 12 and deservedly stays outside the OG. It's not Slovenia who didn't even go to the qualifiers - they were there and the rest is their internal problem. The good thing about having the Euro qualifiers in Jan is that the players are in their best mid-season conditions. You can ignore the idea about preparations and cycles as much as you wish but for many teams this is the reality. There is very little doubt that teams like Brazil or France have the OG as the sole goal of their 2016. The players may fight for every point in the semi but at the same time they may still be lifting weights intensively during their training. Serbia had a benefit of not thinking about this and used it successfully. Think of Poland winning the WL back in 2012 and... how they were ranked at the OG.


    None of teams in Krakow did weight lifting :) N'Gapeth played with knee problem yday (didn't warm up at all except joking with Tillie), Souza also have had problems with his back, yet both played. I think it's significant and shows everyone wanted a medal. You think Brazil can play better than they did in SF's? Toniutti limped all day, he couldn't stand normally so it's logical decision to rest him.


    It's true Serbia took advantage of situation but does that diminish their success? For me not at all, as for me only Iran & Argentina have been calculating in Intercontinental phase. Others, especially on F6 haven't.


    Regarding Euro OG qualies in January, I'm not sure that's the right time for such important, would say crucial tournament in 4 year circle. NT coaches don't have enough time to prepare teams, club season is tough (especially in Russia due traveling) etc. But that's not a main problem, it's disgusting system and rules :read: FIVB is trying to spread volley around the globe but it's not a good thing to see f.e Germany (5th in London), Bulgaria (4th) or Serbia had only once chance in the most difficult tournament of all. Maybe Russia wouldn't win gold in Berlin if Markin wasn't using melodonium, Even thought he had low concentration in blood it's still an advantage in physical terms comparing to French players.

    Quote from rbdfabio

    Brazil is playing just like yesterday.....only difference is that Serbia is serving 1000 times better than France.

    If you wrote this when you couldn't watch the game (the semi), then I could accept it. Otherwise it means you have watched something completely different. It is not worth discussing anyway.

    Quote from rbdfabio

    Im so happy for Serbia....even before the season started I said I could not believe Serbia did not qualify for Rio because all the Serbians were playing so so well in the club season. And I knew they could really win the WL.


    And let`s he honest, all the teams wants to say this WL was just preparation for the OG and so on....but at the end of the day, everyone played very much with their full roster, sure making some testes here and there...but Serbia did the same thing....
    But France,Poland,Brazil,USA,Italy played this final round with the same team we will see in RIO...and Serbia payed without their main star Atanasjevic


    Well done Serbia...

    Everyone might've played at their best in the semifinals but surely not during the entire tournament. It is a nice opportunity to win something now that you have reached the semis and have only two games en route to the gold, but it is a totally different process when your focus is somewhere else at the beginning of the summer. I cannot say most teams played with complete dedication to win the World League. France didn't risk Tillie, to start with. Poland kept Kurek for the Olympics. Russia were experimenting with their squad. Murilo's case is similar, although it is questionable whether he could've helped Brazil in the final last night. So no, we didn't see all the final OG rosters in Krakow.


    We are all hurt by the lack of Serbians, Bulgarians, or Germans at the Olympics but this is the life. Just as we are on the topic of Serbia, they didn't impress almost at all during the entire Olympic cycle. The only exceptions were the 2013 ECH and the 2015 WL. The rest wasn't even satisfactory. However, they now look like a changed team that would surely belong to the Rio tournament. But as I said about 2 weeks ago, the WL win is a burden they have unloaded after some serious waiting, and a prestigious one for sure, but it would be in vain as they will watch the Games on TV. Which doesn't diminish their success :) I am also very, very happy for Nikola Grbic, my favourite setter.

    Kaziyski, a very good analysis. Even if most of the point are already well known it's always good to have them put together like this.


    Let me add something ^^


    Quote

    Today's match was never close except the end of 1st set.


    Actually in a twisted way this is kinda a good news for me: that's mean that when we lose it's because we play badly, and not doing our best and losing anyway.
    Of course it's not good that we played badly, but at least leave space to hope we can do better, at least in a single match challenge ^^


    Quote

    Italy doesn't have team capable


    No, it doesn't. That's why we are aware that when Italy do something good is mostly because of the single players effort (and also the collective attitude, I'll add, but that's is true both in victory and loss) and not because we have a rodate and functional playing system (thanks to Blengini for that!)


    Quote

    1. Coach - IMO Blengini isn't right person to lead such star-studded team as he is lacking charisma and knowledge.


    Well, it's hard to find someone that states the opposite of it ;)
    I'm still shocked the federation didn't liquidate him after the ECH or Lube season.
    Also considering that we really need Juantorena and they don't seem to get along very well.


    Quote

    2. OH position Lanza isn't high caliber player, that's sure. I know he has been injured but what's the point of keeping him in team? Same goes for Antonov, 3rd OH option in Trento can't be 3rd option in NT. Or can because they don't have other.


    You give yourself the answer: at the moment we don't have anything else (except may be for Maruotti). Parodi and Kovar have a lot of issues, Matteo Martino only thinks about is muscles and the list of better OH not in the list is over.*
    Lanza imho is a good player (even if not stellar, obviously), but he still haven't recovered his shape after a long stop and after that a long period on the bench.
    Antonov is better that many seems to think, imho. The fact he is the third OH in Trento is just un unlucky coincidence/choice, if you consider that in other teams people like Maruotti, Botto, Fedrizzi Randazzo are titular. And he definitely did his part in Trentino season, due to Urnaut and then Lanza problems. After all he was benched only for Kaziyski, and that one was the only semifinal Trento lost ^^ (of course not because of him: I just want to underline that with Antonov on court Trento win two semifinal and almost the CL final).
    *Well, actually there is another possible OH, Zaytsev. But it seems that every time someone tries to put him as OH Italy blows off (2014 WCH, last year WL...). And I'm among those who think that Ivan is better as opposite but that in this Italy – with this Osmany and Lanza – it can work having him OH. If Blengini was more brave he could have tried that in the third set, even with Zaytsev on the bench ready to got in for Osmany/Antonov/Lanza, in case.


    Quote

    3. MB position


    Imho our biggest problem with Blengini, the one more impossible to solve. I mean, with this MB you really, really need a coach that can give the team a decent block-defense organization... While Blengini only makes the limits of our Mbs more evident ;(
    Modena won all Italians trophies with the worst block rate of the championship, just to say...


    Quote

    Only naive person can believe they've settled differences and moved on. I also heard rumors, from different persons which aren't connected in any way, Juantorena isn't the most popular guy in NT, including Blengini.


    Actually about the first sentence I don't agree, they got close in and out the court imho (for example Osmany went to say hi in Doha this summer).
    In case, my 'fear' is that they got close because they consider themselves the 'savior' of italian teams (my speculation, to be clear), and that wouldn't be a good sign.
    About the second part I'm very curious to know more :D, but it's not hard to imagine for me. Especially with Blengini. It must have been hard dealing with him all the year, losing all these semifinals...


    Quote

    5. Young setter - Gianelli is talented guy, for me the biggest prospect on setter position in last 4-5 years but... I would never put such pressure on 20 y.o boy. He had brilliant performances, especially for Trentino, but NT is bringing completely different type of pressure and what I've seen Gianelli isn't ready to deal with it. Experience counts as equal as skills in that position.


    Well, I can't avoid thinking that the problem isn't (only) the pressure on his shoulder but the coach that lead him ;)
    And also the team, obviously: it's difficult for example playing with the MB when they 'betray' you more than once...


    Quote

    6. Leader - After Savani retired I haven't seen true leader in Italian NT unlike in Brazil (Bruno), France (N'Gapeth), Serbia (Alex). Simply they are lacking courage.


    Unfortunately on that I must agree. Giannelli will become the leader we're missing now, I hope. He has already became the leader in Trento, imho, but still not in the NT, even if in some matches he acted like that.
    Both Zaytsev and Osmany imho – despite being able to animate the team when they play well – aren't the perfect leader. Still, I guess the both of them were expected to become so...

    Quote

    it's not a good thing to see f.e Germany (5th in London), Bulgaria (4th) or Serbia had only once chance in the most difficult tournament of all.


    Well, they would have had a second chance like France and Poland, if they would have played better the European qualification tournament :whistle:


    I mean, I agree that especially with the 'joke tournament' the qualification formula isn't great, but it's not that Poland and France had more opportunities because FIVB made them a gift: they had a second (third for Poland) opportunity because they won it on court.


    Let's start :D


    1. Italy played only one really good match in entire WL, vs USA in Krakow. IMO too little for such team. OK, Rio is in focus but defeats vs Brazil and yday vs France showed limits with Zaytsev as OH or OPP, as well as entire team. Can they play better? I hope so, it's sad to see "harmless" Italy. On other side players can't do much without proper guidance form the bench. Under guidance I mean tactical & psychological guidance, something that Italy lacks since Blengini took over. I saw him as short-term, transitional solution after sacking Berrutto.


    2. Berrutto wasn't the best coach for Italy but under him Italy had clear and strict gameplan, visible even to volley laics. Now it's a mess from tactical point of view, too predictable without many combinations. Single efforts could bring resluts 3-4 years ago, still can on lower level like in Euroleague, but since then volley made a incredibile tactical impact and Blengini havent adopted them. That's why he suffered a fiasco with Lube. Same thing is happeining in NT. F.e Michele Totire is adopting inovations, I met him in Gdynia and since then I'm following his work. Good prospect ;) :whistle:


    3. as Vabo said your federation is loaded with people completely out of touch with reality, living on past laurels from "golden age" and expecting everyone will strip their pants when facing Italy. Totally wrong attitude. Only good thing is founding Team Italia but on senior male level there are huge problems.


    4. I know Lanza has been out of court for 2 months, that's why I found it strange to see him as a starter in WL. IMO he should be introduced in starting six slowly, that's why he had poor performances. Didn't impress on reception, not to mention his attack or serve and he still was in front Antonov. Don't get me wrong, I really respect Antonov as a player, IMO he represents ideal team player and in this case I saw him as a starter. Italian clubs and coaches should, ASAP, "invent" stabile OH and MB for years to come. I have few names on mind but won't rush with conclusions. I saw Italy winning gold on Junior ECH in Gdynia, expected 3-4 players in senior NT in 2-3 years and we know what happened. Only Randazzo is playing on higher level, MVP Caci is lost (heard he was in 3rd division team). Just look what Spain (2nd), Belgium (3rd) and Turkey (4th) have done with same generation :whistle:


    5. Italian MB's are the biggest problems. If you have true expert like Velasco, Hoag, Heynen on bench I'm sure they would find proper tactics in order to hide weaknesses and to highlight good sides. Just look on Canada MB's, neither of them is good in block or that good in attack but Hoag found solution to incorporate them. Same goes for Velasco's tactics for OH's. Orientation to defensive block and "read game" tactics suits more for Buti and Birarelli.


    6. Being polite and having good relation are two different things :) Of course they greet each other but is that real? IMO not. I can't reveal my sources :P :D one thing is sure - players and Blengini doesnt like Juantorena. Maybe because he was "offering" himself to NT, maybe because he saw Blengini limits as a coach, but Italy desperately needs Juantorena. That's only reason he is NT, nothing more. Stories about shoulder injury was just a facade for the public :whistle:


    7. In Tehran Serbia led 2:0 when Blengini swutched Zaytsev to OPP and put Sottile in. Same story happened in Krakow, after Sottile came in Italy started to play better but easy mistakes in 5th set pushed Serbia in the finals. Gianelli can play vs weaker teams, gather experience and learn but vs stonger teams experienced setter is must have. I'm not fan of Travica but I'm close to think he would be better solution due bigger experience :whistle:


    8. You can not create a leader, the leader is born for this role. Zaytsev and Osmany are too "big" characters, I rarely saw them subordinate team (Osmany in Trentino) but if you have a coach with great knowledge and charisma I'm sure he can influence on them. Birarelli is too "soft" to be a leader, Buti also, Gianelli too young... As I said Grbić was true Serbian leader so it is not necessary to leader on the field.

    Quote from Kk15

    Well, they would have had a second chance like France and Poland, if they would have played better the European qualification tournament :whistle:


    I mean, I agree that especially with the 'joke tournament' the qualification formula isn't great, but it's not that Poland and France had more opportunities because FIVB made them a gift: they had a second opportunities because they won it on court.



    No, no u got me wrong. Fully agree Serbia lost Rio only on field, there isn't much to say about that. But I would say the same if Poland lost to Germany and they were close to defeat. Bulgarian story is different type. Leading interest in Bulgarian federation are the petty personal interests, just like in Croatia, so NT is hostage of such policy and way of thinking. As I know Grbić didn't want to play such "games", even he is constantly calling Okolić in NT instead Krsmanović. Slovenia brought foreign coach and under Giani, who is not burdened with local matters, made incredibile jump in all terms to claim European silver. Germans was just unlucky in Berlin

    Quote from Kaziyski

    Of course they greet each other but is that real? IMO not. I can't reveal my sources one thing is sure - players and Blengini doesnt like Juantorena. Maybe because he was "offering" himself to NT, maybe because he saw Blengini limits as a coach, but Italy desperately needs Juantorena. That's only reason he is NT, nothing more. Stories about shoulder injury was just a facade for the public


    I did understood that you were referring to their cheering one another on court as a false thing, that's why I mentioned the fact they get along outside the court as a possible proof. But if someone said it to you for sure, I trust you ^^
    About the rest, I don't want to know your sources, only all the details of what they said to you :lol:
    Still, I'm not that surprised Osmany isn't that loved in the team (even if several were his teammates in Trento), but I would have been less surprised if you would have made the same statement about Zaytsev, to be honest. The fact that I thought he got along with Osmany as soon as he arrived in the NT was for me kind of a proof that Ivan didn't had other 'besties' in the team that played the World Cup...



    Quote from Kaziyski

    7. In Tehran Serbia led 2:0 when Blengini swutched Zaytsev to OPP and put Sottile in. Same story happened in Krakow, after Sottile came in Italy started to play better but easy mistakes in 5th set pushed Serbia in the finals. Gianelli can play vs weaker teams, gather experience and learn but vs stonger teams experienced setter is must have. I'm not fan of Travica but I'm close to think he would be better solution due bigger experience


    I appreciated Travica enough to be honest (even being aware of his limit) and imho he would have been a nice choice as second setter (as Bara or Falaschi), not considering the characters and the relation with the rest of the team (things I don't know enough about to judge).
    About Giannelli, I keep thinking that yes, he need to learn a lot more and to gain experience, but he has already kinda proved himself vs strong team in important moments. That doesn't mean he will always play well and not feel the pressure, obviously. May be these not that great F6 will help him to be better in Rio, who knows ^^



    About the leader topic I agree with you on every word ;) I didn't even mentioned Bira, Buti or Blengini because I think it's kinda clear they can't be the leader of the team. Well, Buti in some matches can lead a bit with is energetic attitude, but only when he manage to play good, otherwise he got the opposite effect.
    About Giannelli I agree he is too young now, in fact I was speaking about the future ^^

    As for number 6; I don't believe Juantorena is a bad teammate or has a huge ego problem ( that was never a case in Halkbank, several Turkish players said they were very surprised how kind he was) If I were him ,I would already start a rebellion against Blengini who I believe doesn't respect Juantorena enough.And frım what I understand shoulder injury is very real, he needs necessary rest .

    Quote from scarpetta

    As for number 6; I don't believe Juantorena is a bad teammate or has a huge ego problem ( that was never a case in Halkbank, several Turkish players said they were very surprised how kind he is) If I were him ,I would already start a rebellation against Blengini who I believe doesn't respect Juantorena enoug.And I believe shoulder injury is very real


    Mmm, I think that in a NT the situation can be slightly different...
    I mean, the fact (if real) that others doesn't like him doesn't have to be strictly Juantorena faults: he can be a kind, supporting and humble teammate and still not be appreciate in the NT if the others have the impression he doesn't 'feels' the NT and just want to go to the OG, for example.
    I'm not saying this is the case neither for him or the teammates (I've no idea), I'm just offering a possible scenario that could put together the two statement 'he is a kind teammates' and 'the other italian players doesn't appreciate him very much'.


    About the shoulder, I was very surprised too to read it wasn't a real problem, honestly... It's the whole year he is struggling with it...

    Coming back to rape scandal in Finland - court sentenced 5 players: Rolando Cepeda Abreu, Abrahan Alfonso Gavilan, Ricardo Calvo Manzano and Osmany Uriarte Mestre (5 years imprisonment each), Luis Sosa Sierra (3 and half years imprisonment), while Dariel Albo Miranda was found not guilty and got acquittal

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game