Men's European Championship 2017

    Quote from Rains_of_Castamere

    I remember people criticizing amd laughed at me when I said that Italian outside hitters are just good as French OHs if not better sans Ngapeth.Guess what?


    Well, I still think that Ngapeth is the better among them all and that Antonov, Botto and Randazzo aren't at the level of other French OHs.
    On the other hand Lanza is, imho.



    Quote from Leonardo.D

    And we shouldnt forget Slovenia is missing Cebulkj.


    Quote from bella

    I have to congratulate Slovenians 'cause finally they played the game I expected from them since the revelation two years ago.


    Slovenia was one of the team I was more eager to watch in this ECh: for me with Bulgaria, Belgium and Germany (well, I've said it all xD Too easy!) they were the possible 'small' surprises (teams that are not the real favorite, but that can win vs everybody). When I read Cebulj was injured I wasn't that sure about it anymore, and I considered the results of the pool as a proof of it (despite many close sets). Now I'm very happy I have to reconsider my position! :heart:



    Quote from Kaziyski

    Bienek and Zatorski are only high class players in this Polish team.


    What do you think about Kubiack? (I'm just curious, I consider him one of the better OH in this ECh, I love how complete he is and how good in spiking difficult sets)



    Quote from TimHH

    this result so far may even put russian and bulgarian performances into a new light.


    True



    Quote from Leonardo.D

    Now way Czech could lose the match now.


    If I has read this comment in the right moment, I would have wrote that in this ECh 'no way' doesn't exist! xD



    Quote from TimHH

    Personally i was already at the point to believe that the french team can do whatever they want and put on court whoever they want and still look great.


    Me too. I kept and kept saying they were the favorite.. (and I meant it, I love that team games despite Italian/French ancient rivalry :P).
    Anyway, they won big time the 'most handsome players' contest. :cup: Damn, they will be missed :kiss: Oh, Clevenot... :heart:



    Quote from vabo

    Germany better not screw this up


    True, what an occasion!



    Quote from Kaziyski

    28.05. France - Germany 3:0 (25:22, 25:20, 25:20)
    27.08. Germany - Czech Republic 3:0 (25:19, 25:14, 25:20)
    30.08. Czech Republic - France 3:1 (25:21, 21:25, 25:20, 25:20)


    Yesterday you did a similar example about Italy/Belgium/Turkey and I didn't say nothing because I was afraid to sound partial (and when I sense I'm going to be bit partial about my team I usually chose to shut up or I admit it clearly), but now I can say it :P
    I do think this equations (A beat B that beat C so A is better than C) are quite meaningless in volleyball, as your example prove...
    For example, I could have made a similar example like 'in WL Italy beat Iran (incredible, we actually beat someone in that 'wonderful' WL! :lol: ) that beat Belgium that beat Turkey', and it would have been meaningless as well... Despite being right today, for once xD



    Quote from bella

    our fans are like bunch of naive believers.


    But I do think that's the 'job' of the fans :thumbup: I respect them very much for it!



    Quote from vabo

    I guess the blond hair dye was not only bad taste but a bad luck omen


    I thought the same!!



    Quote from scarpetta

    Maybe we can slowly talk about Adidas curse in volleyball :lol: First Zaytsev ,now Ngapeth . I'm expecting a major downfall from USA :lol:


    :lol:



    Quote from Kaziyski

    I still stand by opinion Czechs are mediocre team


    Quote from Kaziyski

    One swallow does not make a spring


    Absolutely true (I would still bet on Germany, absolutely*), but I like to think that the close loss vs Italy was the first swallow :D
    Anyway I'm not saying they're a great team, but they can play decently enough that if you don't play well they may beat you. And I thought the same of Turkey.
    *And now that I've said that they will won the ECh xD



    Ps: sorry to all, I'm writing too much and I'm not keeping up with the new comments while I'm writing... double guilty!

    The strange thing about France oi that they didnt play their best in OG and now in ECh. Its weird. But they are still the funniest team in the world :lol:


    i still think that Czech is far for being a good team.

    Quote from vabo

    QPL, who's your favorite to win the tournament now?


    No one and I'm not sure i will watch any other match. France was the only reason I watched this competition and they sucked every single match.


    If Italy wins tomorrow, they go for the gold medal: Italy is probably the most resilient team in the world. They managed to reach QFs with a top setter, a good libero and 5 average/weak players around: few teams would archive the same result.


    BTW I can tell you who I'd like to win the tournament: Bulgaria, Slovenia or Germany.


    I'm still quite shocked how bad France played the last four games. :what:

    As much as I hate simple plays from a setter... you still need players who can receive decently on the left side and attack on that side as well on a forced play by the setter. France I imagine had a hard a time attacking the left...without Ngapeth. He's a magician with unbelievable moves, tricks, whatever you call that especially while in good form and although Clevenot did a better job than him today France lacks the firepower and finesse to make Czech Rep second guess to what type of block-defense they are going to do. I've seen Clevenot play and he's really not the power type but he's a really smart player. But yeah... in men's volleyball... you need both.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda


    #FreeBritney


    1st Life. ButI can't deny that one annoying Croatian had a stubby finger in the pie :whistling:


    2nd Who said it is not top team? I only consider them top since 2 years because then I watched them in action. Unfortunately I'm usually out of watching such competitions like European League. Anyway, I do appreciate Slovenia. I was curious about them and expected a lot from them, only I was worried to not see the same funky Slovenia again since Giani left them.


    Quote from Kk15


    But I do think that's the 'job' of the fans :thumbup: I respect them very much for it!


    Miky, you're partly right and partly not. Sometimes it's good to be at least A BIT realistic. And if it comes to polish fans they sometimes just think that if they will shout a little bit louder, will stand up and start clapping like clowns just because speaker make them do that and will sing for the eleventh time "Pieśń o małym rycerzu" (which we always sing to cheer our guys in tough moments), they can make a big change. If the team doesn't play good, even the strongest support won't help. From the beginning something didn't just "click" in our team. For people who watch volleyball for years, every tournament, weather in tv or live, it was visible. For people who occassionally go to the hall to see the game and really are outstanding in cheering but don't really follow volleyball every day - not really. And halls are so full with people who literally see our team already in the final, not thinking how much effort it will take to get there and they don't quite realize that we not only won't find ourself in the final but actually we won't make it even to the quarterfinal! Yeah. That was me, stream of thoughts again. But don't take it personally ;) sometimes it's really hard to be polish fan and to explain that - even though we're such a nation of fantastic crowd of fans making other nations always feeling good on our volleyball courts - not everything is so sugary.

    Quote from Kaziyski

    Kk15


    I still stand by opinion Czechs are mediocre team :) as Aristotle said - One swallow does not make a spring :D Neither they are top team, neither France is crap but this result is surprising ofc. On other side I'm not stunned as Frenchies struggled a lot. Tillie's absence is a great loss for them, also Rouzier's. They surprised in WL mostly because new players (especially Boyer) were playing freely, without pressure as WL is commercial competition. Here was different story, all youngsters struggled. Obviously they aren't ready to fight on highest level yet.



    I totally disagree. There were more pressure for France to beat the Olympic Champions at home in front of 30K and winning U$$1M than winning this ECH. At the end of the day what`s on the line in this ECH? What`s the prize money? It does not even give FIVB points. And which teams was the one to be beaten? Only France, and Italy if they had Zaytsev, other than that all these European Teams are just mediocre teams and they r not even close to Brazil and USA`s level.


    France lost simply because after beating the OG champions and winning U$$1M ( they even made more money counting the preliminary rounds) they don`t have the same motivation to win this ECH.


    If the ECH was so important Negapeth would have not played in the WL, Tillie would have saved him for the ECH once he was not 100%, but winning the WL was more important and that`s why Ngapeth played and ECH became secondary.


    and if winning World League after beating everyone including Gold and Bronze OG medalist and loosing only 1 game in the whole tournament is called "not ready to fight on highest level yet" and beating teams like Chech Republic, Estonia, and so on is called highest level ....u must be crazy :rolll:

    Generally saying, I think Kaziyski's assesment makes pretty much sense. In the end its a theory but so is yours'.....



    Quote from rbdfabio

    At the end of the day what`s on the line in this ECH? What`s the prize money? It does not even give FIVB points.

    Via european rankings, ECH played an important role for last World Cup and Rio olympic qualifaction. We do not yet know all the qualification criteria for Tokyo but voluntarily giving up on ECH sounds like a strange strategy and i think thats where your theory lacks logic. With the changes on World league i furthermore can see ECH getting entry in FIVB rankings again.



    Quote from rbdfabio

    .u must be crazy :rolll:

    Didn't you once complain that people get personal at you? :wavy: :rolleyes:

    Quote from rbdfabio

    France lost simply because after beating the OG champions and winning U$$1M (they even made more money counting the preliminary rounds) they don`t have the same motivation to win this ECH.


    I don't think players like France players need a money motivation to win...



    Quote from bella

    And halls are so full with people who literally see our team already in the final, not thinking how much effort it will take to get there


    Oh, well, I hadn't get that in the previous post: then I agree with you, one thing is being hopeful and cheerful and not giving up on the team in though moments (see Estonian or Finland fans, for example), another things is taking results for granted, not realizing there are several other teams that have the ability to reach the same goal you aim for.
    In Italy we have the problem that many people that doesn't follow volleyball that much (and even who follows it enough) badly underestimate certain teams that aren't 'famous' (I'm ready to bet that if we will loose vs Belgium, Facebook will be full of 'c'mon, how could you loose vs Belgium, you idiots?' :huh: )



    Quote from bella

    sometimes it's really hard to be polish fan


    Well, in a different way, but sometimes it's really hard to be an Italian fan as well... Unless we are speaking of the female U18 :rolll: :cup:

    Quote from beri

    @Kk17 ahaha yea I guess we're all biased when it comes to our own NT.


    I always try not to be, but I guess sometime it's impossible xD


    Quote from beri

    Also pls don't remind me that I said 'France, easy set


    Well, that was an easy set (at least in the last part).
    The surprising thing is it was the only one :what:


    Ps I loved CEV title for the Italian-Turkey news: "Italy video challenged to quarterfinal" :lol: (or smth like that)


    I totally disagree with you. How the hell WL can be more importnat than ECH? In which world some commercial competition can be more important than continental title? Money? French Federation doesnt need money. There was pressure on Brazil to beat France as they never won WL in front of their fans :whistle: WL and ECH can't be compared in any way, all European teams set ECH as their primary competition this year as they can win WL every year not every two.


    I respect your opinion but this makes no sense. If N'Gapeth was in this condition Tillie wouldn't take him to Curitiba at all but he took him to Poland because it's far more important tournament. Frenchies reached their peak in Curitiba instead in Katowice...

    I agree with you about the ECh/WL.
    I think nobody would choose the second over the first (over any other nain competition, actually; imho for example it wasn't a coincidence that the winner last year was Serbia, since they were the only top team not playing in Rio).
    Anyway, I heard that there were problem between players and Federation about the money prize of the WL, but I still don't think this was the matter.


    About Kubiack, I must admit in Italy there is generally an high consideration of him: during the market everybody wish he'll join an Italian team (Perugia most of all this year).
    Anyway we always wonder how a player will come back after playing in East Asia...

    Spiridinov :wall: :wall: :down: :aww:


    https://www.volleyball.it/euro…ffeggia-polacchi-twitter/


    Btw, I realized now that if Zaytsev wanted to take a little revenge for Ngapeth facebook laugh after Perugia loss in Italian Cup quarterfinal, this was the perfect moment :lol:
    (I'm obiously kidding: I would have thought very little of him if he had done that, as I thuoght less of Ngapeth when he did it back then)

    Quote from Kk15

    Spiridinov :wall: :wall: :down: :aww:


    https://www.volleyball.it/euro…ffeggia-polacchi-twitter/


    Btw, I realized now that if Zaytsev wanted to take a little revenge for Ngapeth facebook laugh after Perugia loss in Italian Cup quarterfinal, this was the perfect moment :lol:
    (I'm obiously kidding: I would have thought very little of him if he had done that, as I thuoght less of Ngapeth when he did it back then)


    Spirik is constantly "burning" Poles :rolll:


    Regarding Kubiak... He has qualities, there is no doubt about that but media, managers etc. are creating atmosphere around players. F.e. Luburić is better player than Atanasijević IMO and still he is without a club. He is less error prone, more positive and reliable player. But Atana is a star since he was playing in Partizan, Serbian media tipped him as a new Miljlković etc.


    Same is with Kubiak, Mika is better player IMO but Kubiak is bigger star...


    Regarding WL/ECH I think it's a common sense, after all WTF is WL, 2nd levele competition after ECH, WCH and OG's.

    Quote

    I'm very dissappointed by Turkey's performance but at the same time happy for Italy. They are showing they can still be a force without Juantorena and Zaytsev. I think exclusion of Zaytsev and support of the fans made very positive impact on the team. At this point it will be hard to reunite with him.


    There is a sports saying that a team, in any game, should never underestimate the Italian and the German NTs, regardless of age and form. It goes way further into psychology, characteristics, statistics, history, you name it, and it's not my idea to do that right now. I doubt anyone will ever make the luxurious mistake to write Italy off, I am sure the Turks didn't. True, many still doubt if Italy can be that dangerous without its stars and I belong to that group of people. The biggest weapons of THIS Italian team are hunger and years of playing together, in my opinion. Hunger because they are quite young and despite all domestic/international finals, they haven't won many of those (not looking up stats, don't quote me on that). The fact that this cohesive group of players (yes, Trentino and Stoychev will be proud) appeared in those finals, to start with, is great already. But the winning mentality despite the technical limit of some of those lads has already been instilled and that is what matters.


    However, Italy were tragic in the WL and lost the only more serious match at the ECH so far - against Germany. All due respect to the qualities of the Turkish NT, they weren't up to the challenge. Italy looks kind of limited, no one should ever underestimate them, though, but they are yet to show us whether they can do something more without their stars. Today's test versus Belgium is a good way to find out.


    Quote

    Grebennikov is playing just average in the last 2 seasons. In the Champions League final-four,he was the worst player of Lube but still got awarded because of his past reputation . In this tournament his receiving is mediocre ,this is one of the reason why France team is below its standarts


    Ok, having written that in a tough moment for France, you may have been a bit too harsh with him ;) Ups and downs come and go, Grebennikov is a human being too. Perhaps his form has degraded a bit lately, but it doesn't change the fact that he still is one of the best diggers in the game. Still way above average, even if not always in his best shape. Besides, he isn't the main or only reason why France have been struggling these past few days. And he surely wasn't Lube's worst player in Rome ;) Whether he should have received that specific award on that specific weekend is a different subject.


    Well, now, a few sentences for the sake of the old times' discussion :) I too found it hard to follow actions simultaneously with matches and so much drama taking place at the same time. I should honestly say I watched Bulgaria vs. Finland and then France vs. the Czech Rep. So let me start by saying that the stats sheet for the Poland vs. Slovenia match revealed so many problems. Not because of the low level of points by the Polish players, not because of the score, low efficiency, or many subs, but exactly because of what Kaziyski said. When you lose 0-3 at home and your opponents still struggle to finish with great numbers and kind of help you get into the match (again, without having watched it), then we have serious issues. Slovenia, on the other side, owed this result to the volleyball community. They have been a world-class team for some years, they might have won lower divisions or the EL, but they just had to prove their 2015 final appearance wasn't a coincidence. Let's separate the WL matches in distant parts of the world against more or less motivated opponents from the ECH (which for some weird reason isn't treated seriously by some members here. Sorry, rdfabio). This win now and the quarterfinals berth undoubtedly prove they belong to Europe's best and their final two years ago wasn't a fluke. Which is amazing for such a small country! They can't just win the European title, be it with the full roster or with a new setter, but they don't really have to. Combine it now with all their other results and wins and you may define their achievements as whatever you feel appropriate. One player who is especially worth mentioning at this ECH is, to me, Alen Sket. The guy used to be an opposite and got accustomed relatively well to receiving and now filling in the shoes of Cebulj.


    Regarding Turkey, I think the hype was a bit too much. I wrote it in their NT section that this could easily be the best roster they have ever brought to an ECH and it finally paid off. As well as their strategy in junior and youth levels. I guess this was almost the highest they could have reached (or perhaps a quarterfinal if they had been drawn in another group), but their overall performance is a huge step ahead. I was a bit surprised to read your opinion about Turkey's chances against Italy, but even more insane would have been if we had written the same about the Czechs, whose upset did indeed happen. Probably our desire to witness more surprises or to have another emerging volleyball power was not that realistic.


    A lot could be said or written about France. Let's congratulate the Czech team, nevertheless, a fully deserved victory. I am a bit divided by their results. I don't quite think they are poor, but I haven't been super impressed by them either. Just remember their two previous ECH campaigns. However, there are talented players there (Dzavoronok, Galabov, Janouch from the younger ones) and they couldn't just always fail. By the way, watch again, if you can and have the time, their match against Bulgaria at the ECH 2 years ago. It may have been their best NT game before last night. So I surely think of them higher than Kaziyski does ;)


    Why things don't work out in the French camp and how they again failed at another event (after the disastrous OG) when they were touted as some kind of favourites is really a PhD topic. There was NO LOGICAL explanation why they would struggle in a SERIES of games and eventually lose to the Czech Rep. and not to a better team, for instance. They looked nervous, like under huge pressure. And by that I also mean time pressure, like the match would be over in 10 mins. unless they score some points fast. From a technical and sports point of view, there is simply nothing to make up for it. I guess we can just divide it between a team day off, clever tactics and readiness by the Czechs. And it still only makes up for yesterday but not for their problems till now. Obviously, Ngapeth's condition, overall presence, and happiness is a very key factor to the team, as well as their confidence. Which might eventually give us the answer - maybe they underestimated the event because they were all too cocky and ngapeth-ish, who knows?


    It's been great to watch the ECH again, this event has lived up to its reputation for the past few editions. And maybe even crazier than the 2013 edition and Belgium, France, Finland, and Germany won their respective preliminary pools.

    Let me jump in with a few sentences about Bulgaria. I watched their match very closely and I saw the usual weaknesses. Finland played very patiently and smart during the first two sets, used the hands of the tall block pretty well, Tervaportti grew his confidence as the match progressed, the team served float and placed the ball where they had in order to create trouble and it would have SURELY ended with them winning had it been the old Finnish NT with the more experienced players. The squad they have now is limited, however, so are their characteristics, but there is nothing surprising that they won a set. If you ask me, they even deserved another one. Looking at it today, it was a very easy-to-predict match, one of the very few at this ECH, the final score I mean. I even believe Estonia would have had more chances against Bulgaria, but that's not relevant any more since the Estonians dropped that tie-break against Finland.


    Well, credits due where credits are due, for the first time in a while Konstantinov managed to have some impact during a match and calmed the team down. I wasn't sure he was capable, the match wasn't going in our way, he had failed many times in similar situations and had often lost his nerve. Serves finally started coming in and then it was very difficult for the whole Finnish team to react. Which still doesn't make up for the scoreline in those last two sets, Finland owed their fans a better finish after the amazing start.


    The fact that it was another match where Bulgaria entered the court unprepared or way too relax isn't going to help. I consider this a major fault during the whole guidance by Konstantinov. Bulgaria lost 9 (!!!) serves in the opening set against 0 (!!!) from Finland. Sokolov was very quiet, committed very stupid mistakes. I wasn't impressed by their display at all. Ok, they won at least, not all teams could do the same yesterday. But the match versus Serbia required a much better preparation and readiness by the team, for Bulgaria will suffer if they play like that again. By the way, coming back to the serve issues, Nikolay Nikolov gave his explanation as to why the team cannot serve well during matches but do it perfectly well during training - because of the huge LED scoreboards working and distracting players in a game and not in a training. Now you will probably wonder if this was their excuse in other halls or tournament or pretty much everywhere we have had Konstantinov as a head coach (or Sokolov as an opposite, for that matter) and you will come to the same amusement level as me yesterday. Sounds ridiculous coming from a professional player, if you ask me.


    With France now out of the game, Serbia vs. Russia seems like a very probable final. Russia have been indeed the most impressive team so far, so are the Serbs actually, but with all these surprises and with the recent ECH editions in mind, we have rarely had a dominant European champion.

    I admit that i would somehow be a bit more relaxed, if Germany played France tonight. I wrote earlier that it is almost impossible that this tournament still can end in big disappointment but lets be real, not reaching the semis against Czech would be exactly this, a big disappointment.


    I expect a different kind of game compared to the pool stage. In this match the Czechs played practically without opposite. I don't think Finger will play that bad again, especially after his good match yesterday. It will be important to start the match well. If they allow the czechs to further surf on the euphoria wave it could get interesting.....

    Quote from YavorD

    Italy looks kind of limited, no one should ever underestimate them, though, but they are yet to show us whether they can do something more without their stars. Today's test versus Belgium is a good way to find out.


    I agree!



    Quote from YavorD

    [Grebennikov] Still way above average, even if not always in his best shape.


    I agree again. I had several chance to follow Lube the season, especially in the important moments, and for me Grebennikov was a a key factor in many of their victories. I often thought that he was the MVP of the match, actually. And Lube's face changed when Kovar could entered the court and Grebennikov along him, they became practically unstoppable, if we exclude the CL semifinal.
    For the record, Lorenzetti said in his opinion he was the MVP of the Italian Championship (not just of the final, but of the whole Championship). Of course isn't opinion aren't the law, but are definitely to be respected.



    Quote from YavorD

    Serbia vs. Russia seems like a very probable final. Russia have been indeed the most impressive team so far, so are the Serbs actually, but with all these surprises and with the recent ECH editions in mind, we have rarely had a dominant European champion.


    I'm repetitive, but I agree again xD
    But truly, it's almost anybody game now. Or at least it will be from the semis.


    Among all, beside obviously Italy-Belgium, I'm really curious to watch Slovenia-Russia. But I guess in the afternoon I will simply watch the match Raisport (I hope) will provide...