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vabo

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Tuesday, May 9th 2017, 6:30pm

Tokyo 2020 Qualification rules

So... its seems the FIVB found a way to finally promote merit over politics in the Olympic qualification process. Here's what I found on an Italian website, hopefully the FIVB will publish the whole thing in English soon.


http://dal15al25.gazzetta.it/2017/05/09/…iche-del-volley


(a.a) L’Fivb, riunita a Marrakesh (Mar), ha stabilito il criterio di qualificazione olimpica per Tokyo 2020. Rimane invariato il numero di squadre che saranno 12 sia per il maschile che per il femminile. Oltre al Giappone si qualificano le prime 3 classificate al torneo “World Olympic”, dove parteciperanno 12 squadre: l’organizzatore, il campione Mondiale 2018 e le prime due per ogni continente. Al torneo “International Olympic” le 12 migliori rispetto al ranking Fivb. Le ultime cinque arrivano dai tornei di qualificazione continentali.



Highlights:

12 teams as usual

1 ticket for the host team

3 tickets for the top 3 teams of the "World Olympic Tournament", made of 12 teams: host (which means NOT Japan), 2018 World Champion, top 2 teams of every continent (aka continental CEV ranking I suppose?)

3 tickets for the top 3 teams of the "International Olympic Tournament", made of the top 12 teams of the overall FIVB rankings (this is pretty big news for Europe)

5 tickets for the 5 continental tournaments (the old world qualification tournaments, this time one per continent)

The World Cup seems to have been cancelled. Will it come back?

Kk15

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Tuesday, May 9th 2017, 7:30pm

top 2 teams of every continent (aka continental CEV ranking I suppose?)

I thought the first and second in the continental tournament, like ECh for Europe, but I had the same doubt.


5 continental tournaments (the old world qualification tournaments, this time one per continent)

Well, the continental qualification tournaments already existed, actually (I don't know if for every continent): last year Russia qualified both the men and women team this way, the same worked for both Argentinian teams if I'm not wrong.
There was that messy thing that the Intercontinental Tournament coincided with the Asian Continental tournament, though.

For me the WOT is the new World CUP, the IOT is the new Intercontinental Tournament and the Continental Tournaments are the same (with a normal tournament for Asia).

Another interesting thing is understanding the order of the competition: will it be the same as last year, with WOT first, then Continental Tournament, then IOT? Or in the order they wrote it?
That could be an important difference: imaging playing the WOT after the Continental Tournaments, so likely without USA, Brazil, Iran... (I think the WOT will remain the first tournament, though).

With this qualification schedule, Europe could hypothetically qualify 7 teams, if an European country host the WOT and/or is the WCh. (3 from WOT, 3 from IOT, 1 from Continental Tournament).
Obviously we would also have to check how the ranking appears without the already qualified teams (if the IOT is the last tournament, 8 teams + Japan will already be qualified so you will have to consider that counting the 12 best ranked teams).

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Tuesday, May 9th 2017, 8:09pm

CEV wants ECH '19 to serve as the Olympic qualifying tournament with the champion securing automatic qualification, which would be a good thing. If it doesn't happen, I hope that at least the finalists will go to that World Olympic Tournament, like they went to World Cup in the past. ECh should really have some actual practical value when it comes to Olympic qualifying.

I was wondering what was going to happen to World Cup with the Olympics being played in Tokyo. It totally figures that FIVB would rather scratch the whole thing instead of moving it away from Japan.

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Tuesday, May 9th 2017, 8:31pm

It won't make any difference in women's for Europe (USA, China and Brazil are taking 3 of those 6 spots for sure), maybe in Men's they will have 1 more team compared to Rio, but it's not 100% sure either.

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Tuesday, May 9th 2017, 9:10pm

CEV wants ECH '19 to serve as the Olympic qualifying tournament with the champion securing automatic qualification, which would be a good thing.

That would be a good new!
I would like that for every continent, to be honest. The continental qualification tournament are a quite useless double for me, even if they can obviously go differently. Think that Slovenia, silver medallist in ECh, didn't even have the chance to partecipate to the qualification tournament, if I recall well.


top 2 teams of every continent (aka continental CEV ranking I suppose?)

Before I said I thought it was the position in the ECh that probably mattered, but now I remembered that last year the World Cup was played before the ECh, so who did they invite?
We had Italy and Russia, but they were both first and second of the CEV ranking at the moment and second and first of the previous ECh.
[Poland was there as WCh winning]
EDIT: I checked on Wikipedia: for Europe and Asia-Oceania they called the first and the second of the ranking; the two americans called first and second of their continental qualification tournaments (they even had to qualificate to the World Cup??? Or was it simply the continental tournament?); for Africa first and second of the continental championship 2015 (that was held before the WC).
I guess that every continent decide for itself?


It totally figures that FIVB would rather scratch the whole thing instead of moving it away from Japan.

:lol:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kk15" (May 9th 2017, 9:40pm)


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Friday, May 12th 2017, 3:42am

So they are essentially having two 12 team tournaments? And then the World Cup on top of it too (which does not qualify)?

Why not just call the World Olympic Qualification Tournament, the World Cup? Like it has been called forever. Does the Japanese Volleyball Association own the name of the tournament?

They should really put these tournaments is time order instead of just listing the way of qualification. We all know that the World Cup (or whatever they want to call it) is first, then the Continentals and finally the last qualifying tournaments.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 12:30pm

http://www.volleynews.it/2017/09/14/qual…are-tokyo-2020/

They wrote that the order will be WQT, IQT and CQT. 3, 3 and 1×5 spots. I'm not sure they just assumed it or if it's actually like that.

Apparently the WQT may be a two pools tournament, but the don't make suggestion about the rest of the schedule (I hope there will be at least a quartefinal... even if that would practically mean we will have an OG to partecipate to the OG :lol:).

They also said that one of the Continental QT will be 'Oceania' and not 'Asia' since Japan is already qualified as 'extra'.
Even if ideally I think it's right, with Oceania and Asia it doesn't make any sense: imagine Iran not qualificating in the previous two tournaments, and then not having a chance to do so in the Continental QT, with Australia having that chance! I mean, I can't even think of an another volleyball team in Oceania rather than Australia...
And doesn't they usually play continental tournaments togheter?


The resr seems the same.

9

Thursday, September 14th 2017, 3:59pm

is there a reason why the continental Q are last? i mean, how would teams decide to participate in the world qualifying... if a team wins a continental spot, then they won't have to go to a world Q tournament...

AUS is not in oceania, they play in asia. so if there's a spot for oceania, it'd be NZL or TGA... !

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 4:35pm

is there a reason why the continental Q are last? i mean, how would teams decide to participate in the world qualifying... if a team wins a continental spot, then they won't have to go to a world Q tournament...

AUS is not in oceania, they play in asia. so if there's a spot for oceania, it'd be NZL or TGA... !

I agree, continental qualification should be first! Otherwise, Brasil will most likely get their spot on either World Q or International Q, which will give a spot to Argentina from south america. If Brasil would get his spot via continental Q, then a team stronger than Argentina could get a spot on either World or International Q. :whistle: Similar case could happen for USA and Dominic too.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 5:25pm

AUS is not in oceania, they play in asia. so if there's a spot for oceania, it'd be NZL or TGA... !

Actually the Asian Volleyball Confederation (AVC) includes also all the States from Oceania. I guess Australia is simply the only one capable of competing with Asian volleyball... (Notice: I don't follow AVC that much so I may have not notice if other teams from Oceania beside Australia joined the AVC tournaments)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Volleyball_Confederation

I may understand (for the Olympic principle of having teams from everywhere) that a CQT may not be held in the continent of the host – and I'm saying that being aware Paris has being chosen for 2024, and thank God is Paris and not let's say London, otherwise we would have completely wasted one of the spot for Europe – but for me Oceania and Asia should be considered as an unique continental confederation.



Anyway, I agree that the CQT should come first than the IOT, which imho should be the last chance for all the most worthy teams not qualified yet, as it was before.

i mean, how would teams decide to participate in the world qualifying...

What do you mean with 'how would teams decide'? I mean, until you've secured a spot you will definitely partecipate to every tournament you have the chance to go... What do you have to 'decide'?

Ps it seems the IOT will host all the best ranked FIVB teams not already qualified, if you're question was 'how will FIVB decide who will partecipate to the IOT?'



If Brasil would get his spot via continental Q, then a team stronger than Argentina could get a spot on either World or International Q.

The WOT will be the first tournament for sure as it was the World Cup, it will be held in August 2019. The doubt is about the order between IOT and CQT.

Ps and I'm ok with WOT first, otherwise the participation could be too unbalanced for Europe (at least for the men). I mean, it's not impossible that 5 European teams plus Canada/USA (the one who isn't qualified through the CQT) or even 6 European teams can grab a spot and Argentina won't, but it wouldn't be very 'olympical' to have only 1 team from South America or NORCECA.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Kk15" (Sep 14th 2017, 5:37pm)


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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 7:19pm

Ps and I'm ok with WOT first, otherwise the participation could be too unbalanced for Europe (at least for the men). I mean, it's not impossible that 5 European teams plus Canada/USA (the one who isn't qualified through the CQT) or even 6 European teams can grab a spot and Argentina won't, but it wouldn't be very 'olympical' to have only 1 team from South America or NORCECA.


What's wrong with that? It is fine when Egypt is the only country joining from Africa, but not OK when Brasil is the only one who would join from South America? What's the logic behind it? I could agree with at least one team from each continent to make it "olympic" but rest of the 6 spots should be given to the best ones and if those best ones are European, what is the problem? :huh:

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 8:07pm

I think the Olympics should have the Host plus the TOP 11 best teams, I don`t care if they are all from Europe, America or Asia, if the 11 teams happens to be all from the same continent, so be it.
The Olympics is not hosted by FIVB, which means it is not like the WCH or any other event where it is nice and smart to have countries from all over to attract sponsors and fans.
If WL/GP does not have continental spot, why would the most important tournament have it? The weaker teams would benefit much more if they would play against stronger teams in the WL/GP during the OG cycle instead of playing against them just once and get trashed at the OG.

But I understand the "Olympic Dream", and African players would be crushed. But at the same time European players gets crushed also because of the continental quota.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 8:22pm

Olympics is never about best competition or else there wouldn't be quotas. OG volleyball should just be host, best team in each confederation, and the last 6 spots for the top ranking teams that didn't qualify to duke it out.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 8:37pm

I think the Olympics should have the Host plus the TOP 11 best teams, I don`t care if they are all from Europe, America or Asia, if the 11 teams happens to be all from the same continent, so be it.
The Olympics is not hosted by FIVB, which means it is not like the WCH or any other event where it is nice and smart to have countries from all over to attract sponsors and fans.
If WL/GP does not have continental spot, why would the most important tournament have it? The weaker teams would benefit much more if they would play against stronger teams in the WL/GP during the OG cycle instead of playing against them just once and get trashed at the OG.

But I understand the "Olympic Dream", and African players would be crushed. But at the same time European players gets crushed also because of the continental quota.
Screw Africa with their one fixed spot out of 12, it should be all about the poor Europeans with all their chances to qualify, right?
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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 9:01pm

What's wrong with that? It is fine when Egypt is the only country joining from Africa, but not OK when Brasil is the only one who would join from South America? What's the logic behind it?

Quality, imho.
I think that both NORCECA and South America have an overall better quality than Africa (or Oceania). Their best two teams are highly probable better than their first team.
If course it's possible I'm wrong about their quality and/or about the idea of overall respecting this presumed quality (so 1 spot for South America for me isn't enough, while 3 are probably too much, if for example Argentina and Brazil qualify in WOT/IOT and let's say Venezuela in the CQT)


why would the most important tournament have it?

Because it happen to be the OG, which is different that any other tournaments...


OG volleyball should just be host, best team in each confederation, and the last 6 spots for the top ranking teams that didn't qualify to duke it out.

Yeah, that would probably be quite equal and fair (and I would add also the WCh winner); but remember that the ranking is hard to move if you don't get to join tournaments.
So overall it's not bad to have a chance to qualify on court (of course the chance is still connected to the ranking because not everybody can partecipate, but like that is't a bit larger). It's ok also with the regular continental competition (like ECh) instead of a specific continental qualification tournament. They conveniently happen to be held the summer right before the OG, so why not?
In this case, though, I think they should all be hosted after the WOT (or all before - like this we could still fall in the 'problem' I mentioned before, but if that's mean avoiding a double continental tournament I would be ok with it).

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 10:14pm

Some people here need to learn the real meaning of the Olympic games ASAP


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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 10:23pm

I know it won't happen but ideally I would wish OG had more then 12 teams... I know also OG is about unity of all continents but imagine if all continents had 3 (just an example) countries then what? That would be lame, should France play against Egypt, Kenya and Zimbabwe in OG lol. I think it's fair to have more European teams then any other continent (sorry) for the sake of good volleyball.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 11:12pm

guys, please let's not have this old argument again.

because it's the olympics (as well as any world tournaments like WC or WCh), we have to have participation by ALL continents, so that's why there's a slot for each continent.

but other than that, it'd only be fair to have the best teams as jetmasters and fabio summarized above.

the biggest problem is when FIVB does stupid crap like it did for rio. it's ridiculous that NORCECA ended up with 4 slots (CUB? MEX?) by manipulating the qualifying system.

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Thursday, September 14th 2017, 11:21pm

kk, i was thinking about how participation in the olympics could be manipulated via the order in which these tournaments are played.

so for example, n. america has 2 strong teams (USA and CAN), so let's say both teams qualify via the W q or the IC q. then NORCECA would have a 3rd slot, which would be a conceivably weaker team. but if continental tournaments are held first, and let's say USA qualifies, then MEX or CUB would have to play against other continents, rather than just grabbing a spot by playing against PUR or DOM.

also, obviously euro teams would want to play in every tournament they can, but that's not feasible for other, poorer confederations.

maybe the best thing to do would be:

a WC-type event where 3 top teams qualify (the 12 teams would be WCh winner, plus 2 from each continent, plus a host country).

then continental Q tournaments (5 spots).

then all those not qualified, let's say the leftover top 8 in the world, would then compete for the last 3 spots.

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