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21

Friday, October 13th 2017, 10:31pm

FIVB is too ambitious for their own good. :rolll:

I'm sure those geniuses were probably thinking #VNL sounds like going to be a worldwide trend/hot topic in social media. :whistle: I'm like "is vinyl record coming back?" if I see that. :dance6:

22

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 1:34am

:rolll: There's just no way you are comparing volleyball to established organizations like NBA or UEFA. :gone:

The failure of FIVB has always been hurting club volleyball in favor of the NT Season. :whistle:

Promoting the best interest of the players is their job and not profiting off from the NTs who are playing for free or national pride. :rolll:

If people cannot understand that then volleyball as a sports will never grow from here on. Pro League is where the money is at. The NT season is all about the patriotism. You speak as if a lot of players get money from FIVB. I highly doubt it. Club will always support livelihood. What else do you think why the cubans gave up their right to play for their country? It is not a coincidence. Money talks and the clubs have it. :white:


And why is NBA and UEFA established organizations? Because they have fans, fans that shows up for every single game, fans that buys merchandise, fans that pays to watch the sport. Volleyball has none of that, Where are the volleyball fans? We have empty arenas across the globe, and that includes Italy,Turkey and Brazil.

How does the FIVB ruins the clubs?? Club season goes from October to May ....then you have 5 months off. Do you want players to just sit down and relax for 5 months?
And what`s the purpose of having the club season longer? just make even more empty arenas? And right now we can`t even watch all League game`s because they are not on TV, we get only 1 or 2 per week ( for each league, except Italy).

How players playing for the NT affects a player playing in club season? If this was true, then all the players that DOES NOT plays for the NT would be the best players in the Club Season because they get all the summer off. But it is the other way around, the players that spend the summer playing with NT plays the best in the club season, because playing at the high international level improve their game, while spending the summer at home and just practicing on their own does not improve their game.

And if anything, the clubs just gets the benefits of having National Team players in their club. Not only because of their high level play, but also because the National Team players are " more famous" over then non-NT players with no exposure.

But who is failing are all the CLUBS across the Globe... They are not working to improve volleyball`s popularity. They should be working really hard to get their games on TV, they should be working to get fans in the arena... But so far they are doing nothing about that....They just let it go by with no games on TV and no fans in the arena.

FIVB gives us Games on TV or online... while club teams can`t even do that.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "rbdfabio" (Oct 14th 2017, 3:21am)


23

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 2:01am

:aww:

Football clubs season; august (last week)-may
Football NT season: june (every 2 years)

Volleyball clubs season: october-may
Volleyball NT season: may-october (every summer)

:whistle:


2014 World Cup
2015
2016 Euro Championship and Olympics (U23)
2017 World Cup Qualification
2018 World Cup

Not mention there` many other tournaments played every year such as Champions League, Copa America and others.

TimHH

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24

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 3:45pm

Well, with this discussion i feel a bit like Bill Murray in "groundhog day". Always the same, again and again..... :rolleyes:

I can hardly understand, how one can't see, that a better compromise between club volleyball and NT season needs to be found. And no, that doesn't mean "getting rid of WL" or however they will call it. Just a better compromise and a more reasonable schedule than we have right now...


Just as i think that you twist and turn the facts as you need them, i made some comments below.... :drink:


In the NBA for example, each team plays 3 to 5 games per week, including back to back games, also they play pre-season games, 82 regular season games and in the playoffs they can reach up to 28 games. They play around 120+ games in the season. And then summer comes around and they still have time to play for the National Team.
Some may play for their NTs, but then its only one tournament at best. Most NBA clubs are very reluctant to send their best players to the NTs. I remember Nowitzki often had problems to get a permission to participate and paid a ridiculously high insurance fees out of his own pocket.
In the month(s) after season, i assume 95% of NBA players surely do other things than playing competitive basketball.


And if there were no World League/Grand Prix, all the national teams would loose money simply because there would no sponsors to support them, why would they invest money if they would be playing only twice every 4 years? ( Olympics and World Championship).
As i already wrote, WL should have his place in the calendar. But with all the other tournaments and qualifications, it is just too much. Maybe it is different in some other countries but for Germany i would say that public and sponsors' interest is mainly focussed on the main events aka WCH, Olympics and ECH.
Generally saying, a shortage of the offer can also increase the interest and quality.


And every team wins money,
Just no. Apart from maybe TOP3 teams, i claim that all other teams rather "loose" money on WL.


And what`s the purpose of having the club season longer? just make even more empty arenas? And right now we can`t even watch all League game`s because they are not on TV, we get only 1 or 2 per week ( for each league, except Italy).
One problem a lot of clubs have, is the high amount of midweek matches which are usually less attended than midweek matches. Longer season would mean less midweek matches, more time for a proper preparation with the full team and, thats my assumption, an overall better quality of the competition.


How players playing for the NT affects a player playing in club season? If this was true, then all the players that DOES NOT plays for the NT would be the best players in the Club Season because they get all the summer off. But it is the other way around, the players that spend the summer playing with NT plays the best in the club season, because playing at the high international level improve their game, while spending the summer at home and just practicing on their own does not improve their game.
Yes, players can benefit from a NT season by playing with other good players. Thats true. But the proportion is important too, otherwise it can backfire. As an example, i think the good performances by cuban expats for their clubs are also reasoned by their "summer off".





But who is failing are all the CLUBS across the Globe... They are not working to improve volleyball`s popularity. They should be working really hard to get their games on TV, they should be working to get fans in the arena... But so far they are doing nothing about that....They just let it go by with no games on TV and no fans in the arena.
I partly agree. Clubs and leagues can do more. But they surely do a bit more than "nothing". They just face the same problems as NTs and federations concerning the general standing and commercial success of our sport. Imho, instead of helping, FIVB/CEV are only throwing sticks between the clubs legs....



2014 World Cup
2015
2016 Euro Championship and Olympics (U23)
2017 World Cup Qualification
2018 World Cup
WC qualification is played in between club season. You probably refer to Confed Cup, which is also highly disputed. Germany, for example, sent a B team to this competition.
never mess with your setter......

25

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 5:07pm

@TimHH - thank you for your post, and I do get all your points, there`s definitely some pros and cons to everything and I agree with you FIVB and Clubs should work together.


One thing that I don`t think it is necessary are the "qualifications" tournaments, for example World League and Grand Prix could simply be used for that matter. And the "ranking" points as well, for example I don`t think it was necessary to have all the European teams playing the WCH Q early in May, simply the Top 6 ( at the least) teams should earn a automatic spot in the WCH and then the others play the qualification.

About the World Cup - I could be wrong but Germany as defending Champion was already qualified for the 2018 World Cup in Russia. ( again, I`m assuming it is like in Volleyball). While everyone had to play to get there. Argentina just played this week their final and deciding game, and Messi himself played, and every team must play with their A team in order to qualify. And another example, in the Americas there`s "Copa America" which is a really big and important tournament and Messi playing there as well.

TimHH

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26

Sunday, October 15th 2017, 11:15am

One thing that I don`t think it is necessary are the "qualifications" tournaments, for example World League and Grand Prix could simply be used for that matter.
Well, participants of WL/WGP now officially get selected by economical standards. So i don't think, this would be workable. What would be about Slovenia and Belgium, for example? Even giving ranking points imho is questionable....

If you want to reduce the schedule, the most simple solution could be to let them play WL/WGP only each two years and continental championships each 4 years. But it is a complicated puzzle......


OT:
About the World Cup - I could be wrong but Germany as defending Champion was already qualified for the 2018 World Cup in Russia. ( again, I`m assuming it is like in Volleyball). While everyone had to play to get there.
Germany had to play qualification too.
never mess with your setter......

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27

Sunday, October 15th 2017, 12:57pm

Just open any national league topic in both men's and women's volleyball sections: most of the teams already struggling with injuries.

FIVB want's this tournament so bad? Fine. Just change the format and make it look like a Club World Championship. a month flying and playing all over the world is just too much. :wall:
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YavorD

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28

Saturday, December 9th 2017, 11:20am

According to Tunisia Volleyball federation, a new competition will be created in 2018: the "FIVB Men's Challenger League" with 20 teams participating.
The latest FIVB news confirms it. FIVB are planning a Challenger Cup for both genders but with only 6 teams each, not 20. How and whether confederations are going to choose the participants is still unclear and rather individual.

brahmin

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29

Today, 3:26pm

My best guess would be that each Confederation will use the previous Continental Championship results with the highest placed teams that are not in the VNL. Or 2nd answer will be highest rated teams in FIVB World Rankings.

With that said, I would hope that they bring back the continental results to the world ranking.

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30

Today, 4:16pm

CEV introduced the Golden European League that woukd be qualification for FIVB Challenger Cup.

http://www.cev.lu/News.aspx?NewsID=26464&ID=5

TimHH

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31

Today, 5:17pm

CEV introduced the Golden European League that woukd be qualification for FIVB Challenger Cup.

http://www.cev.lu/News.aspx?NewsID=26464&ID=5
So in order to play Nations League 2019, a european team would have to play/win a "6-leg pool stage", a final4 tournament, the FIVB challenger cup and another play-off?? I like the idea of a revivement of European League,especially with all those decent teams available, but this is overkill.....
never mess with your setter......

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32

Today, 6:41pm

Ridiculous.
"Voglio i tuoi occhi quando sognerai per farmi rimanere qui"
"...come la terra la pioggia d'estate"
"Io ti ho coperto le spalle, scoprendo tutto il mio cuore"
- Emma :heart: :love:

Posts: 1,465

Favourite Team: M: USA, Serbia, Italy,Russia, Perugia, PGE Skra, Taubate W: Brazil, Japan, Serbia, wherever club Queen Sheilla is at...

Favourite Players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio,Micah Christenson, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Haruka Miyashita, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

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33

Today, 6:49pm

Sorry for my cursing but mother of jesus! This is insane. FIVB or CEV should be ashamed with themselves. :white: Europe has it rough once again. :white:

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