That's what people do on the internet. They make judgements and unfair comments without having to justify their reasoning. No one who has said they think the match was fixed can point to any evidence.
Be reasonable please, what kind of proof are you waiting for? If you need a signed agreement paper to believe it, nothing to do. But for me, a little bit volleyball common sense would be enough to realize this obvious fixed match as Matthias's explained well with his arguments 
Display MoreWell, of course nobody can prove it, but there are definitely some hints:
- 3:2 for Serbia was the only of the six possible results that got both teams into OG, the theoretical chance for that result was 17%
- Japan was leading 2:1 and 19:16, so the argument that they slowed down once they won 2 sets is just not true
- after 19:16, Japan had two serve errors late in 4th set plus 4 in 5th set. That makes 6 serve errors in 1,5 sets when they had only 9 in the first 3,5 sets. It's true that those were not "bad" serve errors, but still, they were errors
- in addition to that, Japan let two serves of Malesevic drop when they were still leading late in 4th set. Japan is one of the best receiving and defending team in the world and Malesevic's serves were neither bombs nor especially well placed (it is normal to serve between two players, Sano and Saori usually can handle that easily)
- in 5th set, Serbia blocked exceptionally well, a bit too much for my taste...
- during 3rd set, I wrote in this thread about Serbia's play: Ognjenovic was using MBs all the time in the phase when Japan went 10 points ahead even though Takeshita was at the net and the OHs could easily have scored against her while the MBs got softblocked all the time and Japan got the counterattacks. While watching I could hardly believe how Ognjenovic could be so insistent on an obviously wrong tactics, but with hindsight, this also looks suspicious.
Looking at those facts isolated, everything of it can happen. But all of it together are just some coincidences too much for me. All of it can happen, maybe it simply happened, maybe the teams wanted it to happen, probably nobody will ever know...
The argument of some people that Japan would have taken their stars out after winning 2 sets to lose on purpose is totally pointless, if they had done that they could as well have written "we want to lose 2:3" on their foreheads. If there was any manipulation, it had to be done subtly so that nobody can prove it definitely...
The emotional appearance of the Japanese players in addition to these points makes for about as convincing argument towards a fixed game as possible. The emotional reactions of the Japanese players towards the plays that were unfolding later in the game were not normal. A final tournament match in front of a home crowd usually makes for high emotions and high energy. I personally wasn't expecting the Japanese to intentionally lose. I didn't know they would even qualify if they lost this match. I could see that something was different about the way they were playing and responding to the crowd, opponents, and each other. Of course there's no hard evidence, but there's nothing to prove to me, and many in the international volleyball community, that things were definitely not fixed either. There's nothing wrong with making a judgement regarding this game.
That leads me to another point I forgot: if you look at Serbia's post match celebration, you would never guess that they just qualified for Olympics after a hard-fought 5 set match. Of course there was some celebration, but nowhere nearly as ecstatic as you would expect after such an important victory...
That leads me to another point I forgot: if you look at Serbia's post match celebration, you would never guess that they just qualified for Olympics after a hard-fought 5 set match. Of course there was some celebration, but nowhere nearly as ecstatic as you would expect after such an important victory...
Yeah as Serbia has so much money to buy a match and Japan is keen for money so much that they would sell it. Get over it. You will never know.
Yeah as Serbia has so much money to buy a match and Japan is keen for money so much that they would sell it. Get over it. You will never know.
You're right, probably nobody will ever know. But I am sure if anything was manipulated, there was no money involved as the result was beneficial for both sides...
Display MoreWell, of course nobody can prove it, but there are definitely some hints:
- 3:2 for Serbia was the only of the six possible results that got both teams into OG, the theoretical chance for that result was 17%
- Japan was leading 2:1 and 19:16, so the argument that they slowed down once they won 2 sets is just not true
- after 19:16, Japan had two serve errors late in 4th set plus 4 in 5th set. That makes 6 serve errors in 1,5 sets when they had only 9 in the first 3,5 sets. It's true that those were not "bad" serve errors, but still, they were errors
- in addition to that, Japan let two serves of Malesevic drop when they were still leading late in 4th set. Japan is one of the best receiving and defending team in the world and Malesevic's serves were neither bombs nor especially well placed (it is normal to serve between two players, Sano and Saori usually can handle that easily)
- in 5th set, Serbia blocked exceptionally well, a bit too much for my taste...
- during 3rd set, I wrote in this thread about Serbia's play: Ognjenovic was using MBs all the time in the phase when Japan went 10 points ahead even though Takeshita was at the net and the OHs could easily have scored against her while the MBs got softblocked all the time and Japan got the counterattacks. While watching I could hardly believe how Ognjenovic could be so insistent on an obviously wrong tactics, but with hindsight, this also looks suspicious.
Looking at those facts isolated, everything of it can happen. But all of it together are just some coincidences too much for me. All of it can happen, maybe it simply happened, maybe the teams wanted it to happen, probably nobody will ever know...
The argument of some people that Japan would have taken their stars out after winning 2 sets to lose on purpose is totally pointless, if they had done that they could as well have written "we want to lose 2:3" on their foreheads. If there was any manipulation, it had to be done subtly so that nobody can prove it definitely...
- A three point deficit, especially before the 20's means nothing at this level and you know it.
- Serving between two players IS a good serve. Serbia had 5 aces (1 per set) which is by no means out of character for Japan's reception.
- Watch the 5th set again, they have replays of pretty much all of Serbia's blocks and it is clearly good positioning. As someone who plays/coaches volleyball you should easily be able to distinguish what it looks like when someone hits into the block on purpose.
There was no reference made by any other user to match throwing until turrican posted his conspiracy theory and as inflammatory comments do it spread like wild fire. I find it ludicrous that all of these judgements of both these teams came post-match and not based on actual play.
Display More- A three point deficit, especially before the 20's means nothing at this level and you know it.
- Serving between two players IS a good serve. Serbia had 5 aces (1 per set) which is by no means out of character for Japan's reception.
- Watch the 5th set again, they have replays of pretty much all of Serbia's blocks and it is clearly good positioning. As someone who plays/coaches volleyball you should easily be able to distinguish what it looks like when someone hits into the block on purpose.
There was no reference made by any other user to match throwing until turrican posted his conspiracy theory and as inflammatory comments do it spread like wild fire. I find it ludicrous that all of these judgements of both these teams came post-match and not based on actual play.
As I said before, seeing the facts isolated, none of it is highly unusual, but what irks me is just the combination of it all. We will never know if there was any manipulation and I don't claim that there 100% was one, but I definitely consider it possible, that's all I want to say.
And I found it very suspicious already during the match, actually even more than when I watched it again afterwards, but still...but it's no use crying over spilt milk anyway
I think you don't wanna get it. I watched the 5th set again. Nothing was changed in my mind other than getting irritated harder to all players of both teams.
- Serbia got simply a present from Japanese players which made 3 serve errors when Serbia just reached to their 7th points.
- Japanese players seemed totally lost at attacks. Pathetic spike attempts, always blocked by Serbian walls! as distinct from the other 4 sets.
- The most pathetic one, they completely gave up the game after Serbia getting their 11th point, the game coming from 10-8 to 14-8 at tiebreak!
Then, what was that, a sports game or a theater? You playing an Olympic Qualification Tournament, wtf was that losing willingness sharply? That's why everyone is still talking about their miserable performance. That's why people are still suspicious after their amateurish drama. That's why FIVB also made a statement about this game even though there wasn't found any evidence, no surprise of course.
As a result, especially Japanese team have lost their prestige in many people's eyes.
At OG, Japan will be a bit luckier than Serbia at the group stage, but no doubt, both teams will probably get the place where they deserved.
This is getting pathetic. Guess what? Thailand also threw the match against Japan, for reason only known to themselves. If they want to blame someone, they should look in a mirror.
Sorry but you're not going a bit too far? C'mon guys, that's enough.
You're right.
This is getting pathetic. Guess what? Thailand also threw the match against Japan, for reason only known to themselves. If they want to blame someone, they should look in a mirror.
I just read in Thailand Volleyball Association FB , They said FIVB gonna change World Grand Prix Tournament Director week 3, Bangkok leg from Japanese to other country.
This will be confirmed on WGP Bangkok Press conference , let's see what is going on in Bangkok Thailand and FIVB
So ?? What's happened ?? This story is going to be end ??
That leads me to another point I forgot: if you look at Serbia's post match celebration, you would never guess that they just qualified for Olympics after a hard-fought 5 set match. Of course there was some celebration, but nowhere nearly as ecstatic as you would expect after such an important victory...
well that's natural.. 6th ranked team in the world.. European champions, 3rd in the grand prix.. They have won big matches before. They EXPECT to be in the olympics.
Even if someone keeps on complaining, nothing will be changed. The tournament is already over, and the fact that Japan and Serbia going to London won't be changed either.
Just to show how disappointed the Thai players were, after watching the Japan-Serbia match, please consider this.
On the last day, there were 2 matches that would decide the fate of the Thai team. However, only one match was under the control of Thai team. Regardless of how best the Thai ladies performed, they still needed help from either Japan or Serbia. Unfortunately, both teams decided to help each other themselves.
In the first match, Thai team managed to secure 3 points from Cuba by winning 3-1. Now, they had to wait for the result of the second match between Japan and Serbia. However, Thai ladies had a very good reason to be optimistic.
If Japan won by 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2, Serbia would fail to make the top 3 and Thailand would make it as the best Asian team.
If Serbia won by 3-0 or 3-1, Japan would drop out with 1 point less than Thailand, so Thailand would be the best Asia team.
Out of all the 6 possible scores, only the case where Japan lost to Serbia by a score 2-3, would kill Thailand's chance. This is because Japan would add 1 more point from losing 2-3 and replaced Thailand as the best Asia on the better set ratio.
So now one should understand why the Thai ladies cried after their suspicion became real.
this reminded me of the qualification tournament for WgP held in Ankara years ago...only one result could have made Turkey unable to qualify and the match between Germanyand Poland ended with that result (3-1) and Turkey couldnt qualify for Wgp..in that match Angelina Grün hadn't played due to her illness(?)..i was so angry and now i can get what Thai players and fans feel.
maybe the match between Japan and Serbia wasnt a fixed one but if only one of the 6 probabilities makes you out of the OG then it automatically makes you think about the match throwing..
Even if someone keeps on complaining, nothing will be changed. The tournament is already over, and the fact that Japan and Serbia going to London won't be changed either.
Well, I guess nobody really expect FIVB would change anything about that. They think the match was fixed and they expressed how they felt. It's the same when somebody complained about how unfair that the Asian qualification differed from other continents' even through they knew FIVB is not going to change anything.
You're right, probably nobody will ever know. But I am sure if anything was manipulated, there was no money involved as the result was beneficial for both sides...
Why would it been benefitiary for both sides...tell me. Why is it better for Japan that they qualified with Serbia and not with Thailand? If you can explain it to me I will be surprised.