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JoanaBG

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61

Tuesday, June 13th 2017, 7:25pm

I think having a 7-year contract is too long, it should have been 5 years max. There's really no guarantee that, say, Germany, Serbia, Thailand, Korea, Turkey will be relevant enough over such a long period.
And I hope there will be at least come clear criteria for choosing the four teams for one year.

But the list for the next season looks really good. I thought it would be much worse, with some completely random teams. All of the chosen teams can actually contribute something and that's good to see.

I wonder if they'll copy the men's format completely, with 15 games for each team and every participating country hosting a tournament. It would be a bit too drawn out, but probably better than current randomness.

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62

Tuesday, June 13th 2017, 8:20pm

I agree with Joana, I think it should be 4 years (one olympic cycle) for instance S. Korea will most probably vanish the moment KYK retires :whistle: I'm surprised about the absence of DOM, they have always been the beloved one of FIVB :rolleyes: To be honest, with their best roster they are for sure among top 12 teams. It makes sense to invite Argentina and Belgium but PUR and BUL could have been better options than CZE and POL.

Although the idea to make every team to play each other sounds good, 5 weeks and 15 matches plus finals are simply too much,most players are already quite reluctant to play such a busy schedule, I am curious how they will manage to convince top players to play this tournament. Moreover, the schedule becomes too tight during OG, and now with new format, it will be even harder to arrange tournament schedules :what: Without relegation, how would they prevent teams to use this tournament for trial of B teams. :whistle:

joanamss

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63

Tuesday, June 13th 2017, 8:59pm

Agree, 7 years it is a lot!
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sempre insieme a te
e dovunque andrai
sola mai sarai
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Sidney

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64

Tuesday, June 13th 2017, 9:01pm

Why are you saying that the World League has 5 weeks and 15 matches plus finals?!
It has been a couple years since the WL has copied the Grand Prix formula: 3 weeks and 9 matches plus finals...

JoanaBG

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65

Tuesday, June 13th 2017, 9:06pm

Mosi said so in the World League thread and has access to inside information.

66

Wednesday, June 14th 2017, 8:01pm

interesting. no DOM, PUR, BUL?

kondzio

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67

Wednesday, June 14th 2017, 9:02pm

IMHO Poland doesn't deserve for it wothout doubts :wavy: :whistle:
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samsara

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68

Wednesday, June 14th 2017, 9:04pm

I think having a 7-year contract is too long, it should have been 5 years max. There's really no guarantee that, say, Germany, Serbia, Thailand, Korea, Turkey will be relevant enough over such a long period.
And I hope there will be at least come clear criteria for choosing the four teams for one year.

But the list for the next season looks really good. I thought it would be much worse, with some completely random teams. All of the chosen teams can actually contribute something and that's good to see.

I wonder if they'll copy the men's format completely, with 15 games for each team and every participating country hosting a tournament. It would be a bit too drawn out, but probably better than current randomness.

EVEN a 5-year contract is still too long. It should have been three years or something around that, or simply four years following the Olympic Cycle... meaning by every 3-4 years the selected CORE teams can be UPDATED to reflect the REAL strength among the world's top teams.

Quoted

Quoted from "mosi"
Yep, the original source was someone reliable from inside FIVB

btw for those interested in women's volleyball. here is the same list for the Grand Prix (apparently will be renamed to Women's World League)

12 core teams (confirmed for seven years): Brazil, Italy, USA, China, Serbia, South Korea, Netherlands, Thailand, Germany, Turkey, Japan and Russia
4 other teams only for 2018: Argentina, Czech Republic, Belgium and Poland

interesting. no DOM, PUR, BUL?

Why not pick the four for the 2018 edition among Argentina, Poland, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Bulgaria, and Cameroon? Are CZE and BEL showing the comparable strength as these six teams? I have no idea how good is the CZE team. Watched BEL team in some international tournament last year (cannot remember which one), not impressed with them.

For reminder, the match between ARG vs CMR in the 2016 Rio OG was done in five sets with the narrowest margin in the decider. In general the scoreboards of Cameroon's matches in Rio OG indicated the relative strength of this African team. Not sure if financial issue is some possible hindrance for this African team, like the Kenya. Feel bad that the African Continent has no representative at all when it has few contestable teams, at least a decent one to stage at this level. And I detest the ideas that a team is chosen over the monetary causes :cheesy: [tho I'm aware that life is real & often pragmatic]

I think FIVB should also consider the best performers from the 2017 (i.e. the current edition] WGP [beyond the 12 core teams] in filling up the remaining four slots for the next year's edition, and this kind of consideration (counting the present outcomes for the next one) should be applied from year to year.

"The majority of men are not capable of thinking, but only of believing and are not accessible to reason but only to authority." -­ Arthur Schopenhauer

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "samsara" (Jun 14th 2017, 9:27pm)


Maxwell

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69

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 2:01am

7 years? That's ridiculous. 5 years that still too many years to guarantee teams into the Grand Prix. So many things can change, new players, retiring players, teams from smaller countries become good,. How about 2, no more than 3?

kondzio

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70

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 2:32pm

didn't Crsitobal Marte get angry ? :lol: Dominicans could be better than some teams, as well as Bulgaria or Puerto Rico... we'll see how this move change these series :whistle:
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brahmin

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71

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 4:04pm

The initial reasoning for the World Grand Prix was to play international matches annually with the bigger teams from the Olympics. At that time there were only 8 teams and played over two weeks and then a finals.
Due to the small amount of teams at that time, it was not feasible to have a long tournament, nor viable at that time. Also, since the beginning the tournament was really focused on Asian venues. Only more recently has it spread to being "home matches"

Reasoning to shrink in size:
1. Prize money is low (Federations do not want to pay for little prize money at Groups 2 and 3)
2. Travel for lower levels is ridiculous and expensive (they have tried to partner two countries close together to save costs, but it is just too much)
3. Promotion relegation is too small in number, only one team goes up and down
4. Determination of new teams added to Group 3 is random at best

I think that it will be better in the next format, but you still need a lower level, maybe not two, but one to enable lower level teams to improve, but also economically viable for them too
African teams are screwed with the new system. FIVB wants to grow the game there, but keeps changing the goals for them to play in international competitions

saishuu

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72

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 4:12pm

I think that it will be better in the next format, but you still need a lower level, maybe not two, but one to enable lower level teams to improve, but also economically viable for them too.
Yeah, after giving it some thought, I agree with this. I do not mind a format with 12 plus 4 wildcards playing over five weeks, but I really, really wanted to see a lower division with at least some of the up-and-coming teams. Divisions 2 and 3, even though they had lower level teams, were still very fun to watch, not to mention it is a good opportunity to see other NTs grow internationally.
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samsara

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73

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 4:25pm

The initial reasoning for the World Grand Prix was to play international matches annually with the bigger teams from the Olympics. At that time there were only 8 teams and played over two weeks and then a finals.
Due to the small amount of teams at that time, it was not feasible to have a long tournament, nor viable at that time. Also, since the beginning the tournament was really focused on Asian venues. Only more recently has it spread to being "home matches"

Reasoning to shrink in size:
1. Prize money is low (Federations do not want to pay for little prize money at Groups 2 and 3)
2. Travel for lower levels is ridiculous and expensive (they have tried to partner two countries close together to save costs, but it is just too much)
3. Promotion relegation is too small in number, only one team goes up and down
4. Determination of new teams added to Group 3 is random at best

I think that it will be better in the next format, but you still need a lower level, maybe not two, but one to enable lower level teams to improve, but also economically viable for them too
African teams are screwed with the new system. FIVB wants to grow the game there, but keeps changing the goals for them to play in international competitions

Thanks for the informative post, brahmin! You just highlighted the realities :P the Law of Economics dictates all the required changes... costs & benefits! All the fun and festive show that we all witness freely cost a lot to stage... some parties must pay for that, and they will only pay if it's relevant, if it's beneficial...

I believe the Group 2 & 3 can hardly compete with the Group 1 in attracting the commercial interests: sponsorship, host, media coverage, etc... in particular when the most vibrant and largest economies in the world are all playing in the Group 1.

Fundamental Question: WHO will take the bills? :P :D

"The majority of men are not capable of thinking, but only of believing and are not accessible to reason but only to authority." -­ Arthur Schopenhauer

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "samsara" (Jun 16th 2017, 4:44am)


74

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 6:56pm


I think that it will be better in the next format, but you still need a lower level, maybe not two, but one to enable lower level teams to improve,
Yeah, they need at least to keep Division 2, and the games in Division 2 has good attendance.

StefanS

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75

Thursday, June 15th 2017, 9:10pm

For example Kim Yeon-Koung will not play forever and without her South Korea is just not the same team - so 7 years for such a fixed participant format are definitely too long. The will is clear: to put all the long-years best teams of all continental federations together in this World Grand Prix succcessor called World League of Women... but I think, this has similar many disadvantages as advantages.

samsara

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76

Friday, June 16th 2017, 5:29am

And even though without Kim Yeon-koung in the future the strength of the KOR team may possibly be significantly weakened...

However the size and strength of the Korean economy will ensure that the nation can steadily be a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR in various means to this competition, such as sponsorship and other kinds of contract deals from the Korean companies (incl. the deal for the broadcast rights), KOR also has the capability and facility to become one of hosts of this tournament, supports from the Korean society and state for volleyball also play an important factor, etc.

From the said 12 core teams: Brazil, Italy, USA, China, Serbia, South Korea, Netherlands, Thailand, Germany, Turkey, Japan and Russia... the Serbia has the smallest economy though has no problem to finance its team, moreover its team is competitive, still fits nicely the outlined criteria as well as the other 11 teams.

To summarize: TWO FUNDAMENTAL FACTORS in the primary considerations of the ruling body, the team's competitiveness AND the SIZE & Strength of its ECONOMY.

THUS, from the other names that I mentioned earlier as the candidates for the annually rolling-over additional four contestants: Argentina, Poland, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Bulgaria, and Cameroon plus Czech Republic and Belgium... just figure out the competitiveness and the Size of Economy of each candidate... which one has the size & strength to be able to serve as a positive contributor economically for skill level they have more or less the comparable ones :-)

ANY WONDER NOW ? :-) Just a business common sense though may be unspoken :P :D

"The majority of men are not capable of thinking, but only of believing and are not accessible to reason but only to authority." -­ Arthur Schopenhauer

StefanS

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77

Friday, June 16th 2017, 6:43am

And even though without Kim Yeon-koung in the future the strength of the KOR team may possibly be significantly weakened...

However the size and strength of the Korean economy will ensure that the nation can steadily be a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR in various means to this competition, such as sponsorship and other kinds of contract deals from the Korean companies (incl. the deal for the broadcast rights), KOR also has the capability and facility to become one of hosts of this tournament, supports from the Korean society and state for volleyball also play an important factor, etc.

From the said 12 core teams: Brazil, Italy, USA, China, Serbia, South Korea, Netherlands, Thailand, Germany, Turkey, Japan and Russia... the Serbia has the smallest economy though has no problem to finance its team, moreover its team is competitive, still fits nicely the outlined criteria as well as the other 11 teams.

To summarize: TWO FUNDAMENTAL FACTORS in the primary considerations of the ruling body, the team's competitiveness AND the SIZE & Strength of its ECONOMY.

THUS, from the other names that I mentioned earlier as the candidates for the annually rolling-over additional four contestants: Argentina, Poland, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Bulgaria, and Cameroon plus Czech Republic and Belgium... just figure out the competitiveness and the Size of Economy of each candidate... which one has the size & strength to be able to serve as a positive contributor economically for skill level they have more or less the comparable ones :-)

ANY WONDER NOW ? :-) Just a business common sense though may be unspoken :P :D


And Serbia is totally fanatic regarding sports, especially volleyball. I guess, they support financially much more good sport teams from the government, as it is done in most other countries, otherwise Vizura BEOGRAD would be never capable of participating in CL for example, considering their low team budget.

Maxwell

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78

Friday, June 16th 2017, 7:24am

Thanks Brahmin for explaining the reasoning of the Grand Prix. I agree with Saishuu I too like the lower division teams.

79

Saturday, June 17th 2017, 12:43pm

i guess these players will be starters in first match against Serbia in WGP 2017

Gamze Alikaya- Meryem Boz
Fatma Yıldırım - Hande Baladın
Kübra Çalışkan - Dicle Nur Babat
Gizem Örge


on the bench : Çağla Akın ,Polen Uslupehlivan,Cansu Çetin,Şeyma Ercan,Aslı Kalaç,Beyza Arıcı,Melis Yılmaz

i hope Ezgi Dilik could be second setter instead of Çağla Akın who had been a starting setter in Beşiktaş

id like to see what MB Beyza Arıcı can do against world's best teams

i wonder if which two of Aslı Kalaç-Beyza Arıcı-Özge Nur Yurtdagülen will be on the roster.I guess Yurtdagülen will get omitted considering Kalaç being on the roster or maybe the opposite!

i hope Gamze Alikaya is ok and we can see what she can do in these matches
meso mi ra se beno...

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80

Saturday, June 17th 2017, 2:20pm

i guess these players will be starters in first match against Serbia in WGP 2017

Gamze Alikaya- Meryem Boz
Fatma Yıldırım - Hande Baladın
Kübra Çalışkan - Dicle Nur Babat
Gizem Örge


on the bench : Çağla Akın ,Polen Uslupehlivan,Cansu Çetin,Şeyma Ercan,Aslı Kalaç,Beyza Arıcı,Melis Yılmaz

i hope Ezgi Dilik could be second setter instead of Çağla Akın who had been a starting setter in Beşiktaş

id like to see what MB Beyza Arıcı can do against world's best teams

i wonder if which two of Aslı Kalaç-Beyza Arıcı-Özge Nur Yurtdagülen will be on the roster.I guess Yurtdagülen will get omitted considering Kalaç being on the roster or maybe the opposite!

i hope Gamze Alikaya is ok and we can see what she can do in these matches
I'm not sure about Gamze, it didnt look like she is training with the NT right now from her instagram. It is a huge gap between Cagla-Ezgi duo and Gamze, so I hope she will be fine too.

Özgenur doesnt deserve to be in the roster at all, she was always in bench and she actually is the worst of these 5 names. Diclenur-Kubra duo won't be very long lasting, especially if Gamze is the setter. Gamze likes to set fast to her middles too and both Diclenur and Kubra like very slow, not sure but 2nd tempo sets. This is definitely not Gamze's specialty, that's why she played much better with Asli Kalac instead of Ruseva in her club. It will sure be an interesting choice since Diclenur-Kubra duo are much better blockers while Beyza-Asli Kalac duo are better attackers.

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