Women's World Grand Prix 2017

  • I don't know if it's been discussed already and I don't see it on FIVB site, but:


    The F6 will be played in two pools.


    Pool J:
    Serbia
    USA
    Italy


    Pool K:
    China
    Brazil
    Netherlands


    The two top teams from each group will play in the semis.


    Source: Serbian volleyball federation

  • Bad news for German NT: despite winning against Peru and getting place 2 in group 2 behind South Korea, the hosts Czech republic are set to one and so they play in semi against third Poland, and Germany faces Kim Yeon-Koung and her group in the semis, the only team they lost to in the group phase. As you know, on good days Kim can beat them alone... when they don't play on their limit they have no chance, I think.

  • It is possible, but really unlikely. Look at someone like Mireya Luis. She is only like 1.75m tall but has the highest spike ever for a woman but she is really an exception to have a whole team like her is very unlikely to happen.


    Basically, there are very few really elite level spikers and blockers below roughly 1.88m and that won't change.


    Of course, Japan and Thailand are really good teams and can beat the bigger teams with their speed and skill but dominate the sport? I don't think that'll ever happen


    Sorry to say it out bluntly, both JPN & THA teams have not beat any of the major teams (BRA CHN USA SRB) in any "big" match that really matters - the KO ones in OG, WCh, WC and any critical qualification ones for the major tournaments ( (involving the A team vs A team) in the last several years.


    The last time the JPN team really won big over those medal contender teams was its victory over CHN in the 2012 London OG in the quarterfinal match, won 3-2 (28-26, 23-25, 25-23, 23-25 and 18-16). That victory was the last real win recorded. The JPN team got the bronze medal eventually. It's also the JPN team's highest achievement in volleyball in "modern" era (in the internet era, with all the full HD broadcast -- basically the JPN team has subsided as of the early 1980s, of course it has achieved much more in the old times, pre-1980s).


    Nevertheless both JPN and THA teams are still great and fun to watch as well as are still part of the first tier in the world's women's volleyball league but just not up to the level of the serious medal contenders for those major tournaments.


    “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”

  • Yes, that is true but that is only one Olympic cycle so maybe just a slightly poorer generation of players. Japan did play some nice matches at the WC and pushed Russia and Serbia to the limit.

  • Just finished watching the TUR VS THA replay. Nootsara is really a treasure. One of the best setters of all time. Fernanda Venturrini, Fofao, Takeshita, and I can add Nootsara to the list. That tip she did on the 2nd set at 22 all is just purely amazing. On a side note, TUR looked really pathetic during this game. What happened to them? I can imagine Erda, Neslihan, Naz, and co laughing their asses off looking at these hopeless team.


    i didnt watch Thailand vs Turkey match..but this Thailand team beat Brazil (away) and Italy 3-0 (home) too
    i think these players of Thailand need Nootsara's variant and fast sets to be succesful against the good blocking teams


  • I guess an useless coach who took the USA to win a World Championships and a bronze Olympic medal... :whistle:


    With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.

  • And I like Milenkovic also, do you know where she will be playing next season?


    I like her too. She's promising and only 20 still. She had some injury woes the last few years, but is back on track now. I believe she's staying in Crvena Zvezda. I was hoping she'd move abroad now, but it should definitely happen next year.


    Serbian team has gone to Changsha and will be staying there until the end of the week.

  • With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament

    Would it though? I agree that USA has possibly got more world class players than any other country right now but at the end of the day it comes down to the few players actually on the court. If we compare their starting players to China, Serbia or Brazil of the past few years can we really say that USA are much better?

  • just finished watching the replay of JPN VS RUS and all I can say is SNOOZE-FEST. this is like the worst Japan's game throughout the entire tournament although they managed to win.


    I like #7 from RUS . she jumps high even with her height although most of the times she seems clueless of what to do on court when she is covering. i think she will be a good successor for Goncharova (sorry Malykh, but I think your time is up).RUS players need to improve their agility. they are so slow on court. there are so many high balls fell to the court simply because the players were too late to get to the ball. the captain looks completely awkward when attacking the ball. but the most tragic thing about this team is the libero's haircut. somebody needs to tell her the 70's call and they want their hair cut back.


    Uchiseto from JPN jumps really high and hits really hard. Sato plays a boring game. I prefer the previous setter. but Shinnabe is amazing as always

  • just finished watching the replay of JPN VS RUS and all I can say is SNOOZE-FEST. this is like the worst Japan's game throughout the entire tournament although they managed to win.


    I wouldn't call it a snooze-fest, but I did post this to the Japan NT thread last night:

    Quote

    That game last night against Russia, while wonderful in so many ways--almost everyone stepped up beyond imagination on individual offense--was one of the worst games I've ever seen almost any Japanese team play.


    I started to re-watch it last night and I must say it's odd that the first two sets which Japan lost looked like a couple of the best sets they played in the tournament. They had the lineup right and everyone was firing. It was beautiful VB. I don't know how they lost those sets. I simply couldn't see how RUS ended up with more points. Shinnabe and Koga were attacking successfully, Tominaga (the setter) had a successful attack (I love when setters do that), Okumura was kill-blocking and slide smashing. Iwasaka even had a couple quick kills. It was a lovely offensive game for Japan. But then it got ugly and they won. Inexplicable.


    Uchiseto from JPN jumps really high and hits really hard. Sato plays a boring game. I prefer the previous setter. but Shinnabe is amazing as always


    Those are the three players I haven't figured out yet. I used to think Shinnabe was boring, but now she looks like the adult in the room. That's a big upgrade. I don't know how to judge a setter's setting abilities but Sato's floor defense concerns me. A lot. Especially when compared to Miyashita. I may come around on Uchiseto for her reliable receiving.

  • I don't know how to judge a setter's setting abilities

    Basically you have to look at precision, deception and athleticism.


    What I mean by athleticism is how well she can save bad passes (too high, too low, too quick, etc.) and still set attackable balls for her hitters.
    Precision is simply how accurate her sets are, so how easy it is for the spiker to attack the ball as she wants to.
    Deception is how well she can trick the blockers of the other team. A good setter should usually be able to give her hitters only 1 blocker in front of her if she has a good pass, 0 blockers is even better of course. Of course this can also be done by using very fast sets like what Tomkom often does for Thailand.

  • Sorry to say it out bluntly, both JPN & THA teams have not beat any of the major teams (BRA CHN USA SRB) in any "big" match that really matters


    Yes, I'm aware of that. My point is ... if they want beat those teams they shouldn't try to beat them by getting better at the game those other teams play. They need to throw another game at them. And they are doing that. They're just not good enough yet.


    I know analogies don't work, don't explain things, but ... Ten years ago, and for a long time leading up to that, the NBA was all about get the ball to your big man in the paint, and no jump shooting, no team that passed the ball unselfishly, had ever won a championship. Today that big man game doesn't exist, and big dumb guys like Shaq are a joke. Jump shooting teams are winning the championship. And the beautiful thing is ... you can't predict who's going to get the post game interview. Team.


    Allow me to be ridiculous (as if I'm not already). I think Japan needs to learn how to hit the ball harder, but it's not going to come from getting bigger or stronger. They're too polite to let anger help. But there are ways, eastern ways, of utilizing speed and discipline to reach parity in attack with someone a lot bigger and a lot stronger than you. I'm concerned that Ferhat isn't the guy who's going to bring that approach. He might bring a Moneyball approach (sort of the way someone here described the Chinese coach's failing approach of technical directives), and it might bring improvement, but I don't think it will take them over the top.

  • Basically you have to look at precision, deception and athleticism.


    What I mean by athleticism is how well she can save bad passes (too high, too low, too quick, etc.) and still set attackable balls for her hitters.
    Precision is simply how accurate her sets are, so how easy it is for the spiker to attack the ball as she wants to.
    Deception is how well she can trick the blockers of the other team. A good setter should usually be able to give her hitters only 1 blocker in front of her if she has a good pass, 0 blockers is even better of course. Of course this can also be done by using very fast sets like what Tomkom often does for Thailand.


    Ha! Thanks for that. It's pretty simple, it seems. The only thing I have been able to discern in my studies, is my disappointment in Japan's setting post-Takeshita is how many balls I see the attackers simply saving over the net instead of being in a rhythm for kill.


    I love the Deception part. I think it'll be a while before I can see/judge that because the game goes by too quickly for me now. I'm amazed at some of the comments I see written here and think "How do these people see all that"? Forgive me another basketball analogy but ... I used to watch basketball as there's a guy with the ball and there's a guy defending him. And then someone shoots. And then all of a sudden I could see how a team defensive system unfolded. It's like it takes an educated peripheral vision.

  • what was the problem that they had to stop match in 3rd set?


    last year, they had to cancel match between THA x ITA due to electric outage, but that was in italy...

    There was a heavy thunder storm in the stadium area at that time and caused the electric power brownout. So, it need some minutes to turn on the spotlights to full capacity.


  • Yes, I'm aware of that. My point is ... if they want beat those teams they shouldn't try to beat them by getting better at the game those other teams play. They need to throw another game at them. And they are doing that. They're just not good enough yet.


    I know analogies don't work, don't explain things, but ... Ten years ago, and for a long time leading up to that, the NBA was all about get the ball to your big man in the paint, and no jump shooting, no team that passed the ball unselfishly, had ever won a championship. Today that big man game doesn't exist, and big dumb guys like Shaq are a joke. Jump shooting teams are winning the championship. And the beautiful thing is ... you can't predict who's going to get the post game interview. Team.


    Allow me to be ridiculous (as if I'm not already). I think Japan needs to learn how to hit the ball harder, but it's not going to come from getting bigger or stronger. They're too polite to let anger help. But there are ways, eastern ways, of utilizing speed and discipline to reach parity in attack with someone a lot bigger and a lot stronger than you. I'm concerned that Ferhat isn't the guy who's going to bring that approach. He might bring a Moneyball approach (sort of the way someone here described the Chinese coach's failing approach of technical directives), and it might bring improvement, but I don't think it will take them over the top.

    I don`t know if you know but in 2013 Manabe came with a new strategy, I`m not sure about how it was, but it had something to do with the MB, ( again I don`t know exactly how it was) but I think they were playing with no MB, or using the MB as OH/OPP to kill the ball, once they don`t get much from the middle anyways.

  • I don`t know if you know but in 2013 Manabe came with a new strategy, I`m not sure about how it was, but it had something to do with the MB, ( again I don`t know exactly how it was) but I think they were playing with no MB, or using the MB as OH/OPP to kill the ball, once they don`t get much from the middle anyways.

    He called it "hybrid 6". He was using only one MB and used her opposite the setter and put 4 wing hitters around them. The setter would block on pos. 3 then. IMO it turned out to be a big fail :whistle: And it's not like he invented it, it was a regular system in the past. Peru won silver on Seoul with the system and both Vakifbank and Ukraine NT played like this when Buzayev was head coach there.


  • The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.



    The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.


    I guess an useless coach who took the USA to win a World Championships and a bronze Olympic medal...


    With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.



    With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.

  • SHAME is right :white:


    I have no doubt USA would win any breathing and cheerleading contest for the next 10 years, but volleyball is actually a sport where his bullshit doesn't win gold medals


    Just pick the most suitable choice depicting the current USA head coach and the rosters:


    (1) Good Coach + Good array of players
    (2) Standard Coach + Good array of players
    (3) Standard Coach + Standard array of players
    (4) Bad Coach + Good array of players
    (5) Bad Coach + Standard array of players


    I remove the bad array of players choice since it's irrelevant at present


    I choose (2) :D


    “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.”