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Goofyfoot

Posts: 418

Favourite Team: NEC Red Rockets, Japan W NT

Favourite Players: YANAGITA Mizuki, ZHANG Changning, WU Han, The Saoris, Goncharova & Kosheleva, OUMI Akari, Arisa, KOGA Sarina

Location: San Francisco

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1,481

Monday, July 24th 2017, 6:55pm

I don't know how to judge a setter's setting abilities
Basically you have to look at precision, deception and athleticism.

What I mean by athleticism is how well she can save bad passes (too high, too low, too quick, etc.) and still set attackable balls for her hitters.
Precision is simply how accurate her sets are, so how easy it is for the spiker to attack the ball as she wants to.
Deception is how well she can trick the blockers of the other team. A good setter should usually be able to give her hitters only 1 blocker in front of her if she has a good pass, 0 blockers is even better of course. Of course this can also be done by using very fast sets like what Tomkom often does for Thailand.

Ha! Thanks for that. It's pretty simple, it seems. The only thing I have been able to discern in my studies, is my disappointment in Japan's setting post-Takeshita is how many balls I see the attackers simply saving over the net instead of being in a rhythm for kill.

I love the Deception part. I think it'll be a while before I can see/judge that because the game goes by too quickly for me now. I'm amazed at some of the comments I see written here and think "How do these people see all that"? Forgive me another basketball analogy but ... I used to watch basketball as there's a guy with the ball and there's a guy defending him. And then someone shoots. And then all of a sudden I could see how a team defensive system unfolded. It's like it takes an educated peripheral vision.

1,482

Monday, July 24th 2017, 8:39pm

what was the problem that they had to stop match in 3rd set?

last year, they had to cancel match between THA x ITA due to electric outage, but that was in italy...
There was a heavy thunder storm in the stadium area at that time and caused the electric power brownout. So, it need some minutes to turn on the spotlights to full capacity.

1,483

Monday, July 24th 2017, 11:52pm

Sorry to say it out bluntly, both JPN & THA teams have not beat any of the major teams (BRA CHN USA SRB) in any "big" match that really matters

Yes, I'm aware of that. My point is ... if they want beat those teams they shouldn't try to beat them by getting better at the game those other teams play. They need to throw another game at them. And they are doing that. They're just not good enough yet.

I know analogies don't work, don't explain things, but ... Ten years ago, and for a long time leading up to that, the NBA was all about get the ball to your big man in the paint, and no jump shooting, no team that passed the ball unselfishly, had ever won a championship. Today that big man game doesn't exist, and big dumb guys like Shaq are a joke. Jump shooting teams are winning the championship. And the beautiful thing is ... you can't predict who's going to get the post game interview. Team.

Allow me to be ridiculous (as if I'm not already). I think Japan needs to learn how to hit the ball harder, but it's not going to come from getting bigger or stronger. They're too polite to let anger help. But there are ways, eastern ways, of utilizing speed and discipline to reach parity in attack with someone a lot bigger and a lot stronger than you. I'm concerned that Ferhat isn't the guy who's going to bring that approach. He might bring a Moneyball approach (sort of the way someone here described the Chinese coach's failing approach of technical directives), and it might bring improvement, but I don't think it will take them over the top.
I don`t know if you know but in 2013 Manabe came with a new strategy, I`m not sure about how it was, but it had something to do with the MB, ( again I don`t know exactly how it was) but I think they were playing with no MB, or using the MB as OH/OPP to kill the ball, once they don`t get much from the middle anyways.

Matthias

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1,484

Monday, July 24th 2017, 11:59pm

I don`t know if you know but in 2013 Manabe came with a new strategy, I`m not sure about how it was, but it had something to do with the MB, ( again I don`t know exactly how it was) but I think they were playing with no MB, or using the MB as OH/OPP to kill the ball, once they don`t get much from the middle anyways.
He called it "hybrid 6". He was using only one MB and used her opposite the setter and put 4 wing hitters around them. The setter would block on pos. 3 then. IMO it turned out to be a big fail :whistle: And it's not like he invented it, it was a regular system in the past. Peru won silver on Seoul with the system and both Vakifbank and Ukraine NT played like this when Buzayev was head coach there.

1,485

Monday, July 24th 2017, 11:59pm

Quoted from "voleysinfrontera"



What if, what of.... truth is he took the USA to win a major fivb tourment for the first time ...



Quoted from "SHAME"





Quoted from "USAvolleyfan"



I don't understand why Karch never changes players when things don't go well.. All he does is his double sub, and serving sub.. If Murphy is bad, Carli doesn't have to come off too, if the double sub didn't work because of the OPP, the second setter can be tried with the rest of the team.. I don't get it.. He'll leave his team drown to the least minute

The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.

Quoted from "SHAME"






Quoted from "USAvolleyfan"



I don't understand why Karch never changes players when things don't go well.. All he does is his double sub, and serving sub.. If Murphy is bad, Carli doesn't have to come off too, if the double sub didn't work because of the OPP, the second setter can be tried with the rest of the team.. I don't get it.. He'll leave his team drown to the least minute

The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.

I guess an useless coach who took the USA to win a World Championships and a bronze Olympic medal...

With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.

I don't understand why Karch never changes players when things don't go well.. All he does is his double sub, and serving sub.. If Murphy is bad, Carli doesn't have to come off too, if the double sub didn't work because of the OPP, the second setter can be tried with the rest of the team.. I don't get it.. He'll leave his team drown to the least minute

The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.

I don't understand why Karch never changes players when things don't go well.. All he does is his double sub, and serving sub.. If Murphy is bad, Carli doesn't have to come off too, if the double sub didn't work because of the OPP, the second setter can be tried with the rest of the team.. I don't get it.. He'll leave his team drown to the least minute

The team works well we win. The teams has troubles he has no idea what to do. That's it. The best he can do is hosting some breathing lessons during the time-outs. Most useless coach of the history.

I guess an useless coach who took the USA to win a World Championships and a bronze Olympic medal... :whistle:

With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.

vabo

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1,486

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 3:11am

SHAME is right :white:

I have no doubt USA would win any breathing and cheerleading contest for the next 10 years, but volleyball is actually a sport where his bullshit doesn't win gold medals

samsara

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Favourite Team: Chinese NT (W)

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1,487

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 3:46am

SHAME is right :white:

I have no doubt USA would win any breathing and cheerleading contest for the next 10 years, but volleyball is actually a sport where his bullshit doesn't win gold medals


Just pick the most suitable choice depicting the current USA head coach and the rosters:

(1) Good Coach + Good array of players
(2) Standard Coach + Good array of players
(3) Standard Coach + Standard array of players
(4) Bad Coach + Good array of players
(5) Bad Coach + Standard array of players

I remove the bad array of players choice since it's irrelevant at present

I choose (2) :D

"The majority of men are not capable of thinking, but only of believing and are not accessible to reason but only to authority." -­ Arthur Schopenhauer

1,488

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 4:39am


With a serious coach like Guidetti or Lang Ping it would be a rain of gold medals every single year in every single tournament. USA never had so many world class and high level players all together and he managed to reach a worse result than Lang Ping in Beijing, where she made a real miracle with Haneef, Metcalf, Kim Glass, Nicole Davis around few world class players like Logan Tom.



i don't agree that the USA has right now the best players they ever had before... i think the 2012 london team was pretty close to being the favorites but we all saw how they crumbled in the final.

speaking of guidetti, doesn't he look like some scary chicken, with that gaunt face, deep-set eyes and crooked nose?????

1,489

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 5:05am

pleumjit unstoppable in the middle... crazy how the biggest block in the world can't stop a woman who's only 180 cm. (speaking generally, not that ITA has the biggest block.)

This is what I'm rooting for. It's not crazy. You don't have to be tall or jump high to beat a big lumbering clod to open space. I will dream on! :super:


i think you want to live in a world where height doesn't matter, but i don't think that's reality ... the days in which a short team can be in the top tier are probably past us. yes, JPN and THA can still beat a tall team but i doubt they can win a gold medal at the olympics anymore... PER (silver) in 1988 was probably the last time it happened.

do you expect that to happen in basketball????

sitenoise

Goofyfoot

Posts: 418

Favourite Team: NEC Red Rockets, Japan W NT

Favourite Players: YANAGITA Mizuki, ZHANG Changning, WU Han, The Saoris, Goncharova & Kosheleva, OUMI Akari, Arisa, KOGA Sarina

Location: San Francisco

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1,490

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 5:39am

pleumjit unstoppable in the middle... crazy how the biggest block in the world can't stop a woman who's only 180 cm. (speaking generally, not that ITA has the biggest block.)

This is what I'm rooting for. It's not crazy. You don't have to be tall or jump high to beat a big lumbering clod to open space. I will dream on! :super:


i think you want to live in a world where height doesn't matter, but i don't think that's reality ... the days in which a short team can be in the top tier are probably past us. yes, JPN and THA can still beat a tall team but i doubt they can win a gold medal at the olympics anymore... PER (silver) in 1988 was probably the last time it happened.

do you expect that to happen in basketball????

You're probably right but it has happened in basketball so that's what gives me hope. Small ball is more fun to watch for me.

ST2008

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1,491

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 6:46am

Don't forget the Japanese NT won the Olympic gold medal by beating the Soviet (tall players) in 1976. I agree that it won't be easy for the "shorter" players team to win gold medals. But it's possible. I think the strategy is they need to be very dynamic and win the 3 sets strait as fast as possible. Because shorter players need to jump higher and they get tired much faster. So they need to win the game before they get tired.

1,492

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 6:38pm

Don't forget the Japanese NT won the Olympic gold medal by beating the Soviet (tall players) in 1976. I agree that it won't be easy for the "shorter" players team to win gold medals. But it's possible. I think the strategy is they need to be very dynamic and win the 3 sets strait as fast as possible. Because shorter players need to jump higher and they get tired much faster. So they need to win the game before they get tired.

You've just said it ,,, it was back in 1976! Plus, Russian players weren't that tall back then...

sitenoise

Goofyfoot

Posts: 418

Favourite Team: NEC Red Rockets, Japan W NT

Favourite Players: YANAGITA Mizuki, ZHANG Changning, WU Han, The Saoris, Goncharova & Kosheleva, OUMI Akari, Arisa, KOGA Sarina

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1,493

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 6:51pm

Don't forget the Japanese NT won the Olympic gold medal by beating the Soviet (tall players) in 1976. I agree that it won't be easy for the "shorter" players team to win gold medals. But it's possible. I think the strategy is they need to be very dynamic and win the 3 sets strait as fast as possible. Because shorter players need to jump higher and they get tired much faster. So they need to win the game before they get tired.

I believe it's the other way around. Japan holds the advantage to go five sets because those bigger bodies consume a lot more energy to be moved around. That is my experience watching as well. I've never seen the Japanese looking tired, and their defensive game makes their opponents work harder (especially than their opponents are used to against other teams).

Can small beat tall? It comes down to talent. Imagine adding Nootsara and Pleumjit to the Japanese team.

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1,494

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 8:14pm

Teams will get used to Japan and Thailand speed.

Especially the taller teams.

This is just the start of the pre-olympic season so there's no need to talk about how Japan can beat other teams...

Techniques are learned...tactics can be decoded or encrypted but at the end of the day...Volleyball is all about attacking and defending... which is so much inclined with height and speed.

Whoever gets to most out of system situations will always be in trouble and that's the reason serve-receive is so important in women's game because there are only few female pin hitters with decent defense who can actually kill the ball out of system in the women's game.

With the serve evolving to power again... It's going to get hard for those teams who were designed to play in system... So right now... Everyone has to do better... and learn to be much more fundamentally sound in the coming years so they can compete with little fails.

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Favourite Team: M: USA, Serbia, Italy,Russia, Perugia, PGE Skra, Taubate W: Brazil, Japan, Serbia, wherever club Queen Sheilla is at...

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1,495

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 8:23pm

Don't forget the Japanese NT won the Olympic gold medal by beating the Soviet (tall players) in 1976. I agree that it won't be easy for the "shorter" players team to win gold medals. But it's possible. I think the strategy is they need to be very dynamic and win the 3 sets strait as fast as possible. Because shorter players need to jump higher and they get tired much faster. So they need to win the game before they get tired.

I believe it's the other way around. Japan holds the advantage to go five sets because those bigger bodies consume a lot more energy to be moved around. That is my experience watching as well. I've never seen the Japanese looking tired, and their defensive game makes their opponents work harder (especially than their opponents are used to against other teams).

Can small beat tall? It comes down to talent. Imagine adding Nootsara and Pleumjit to the Japanese team.


I think the possibility of jumping and diving around that much can be more exhausting for smaller teams than the taller teams.

sitenoise

Goofyfoot

Posts: 418

Favourite Team: NEC Red Rockets, Japan W NT

Favourite Players: YANAGITA Mizuki, ZHANG Changning, WU Han, The Saoris, Goncharova & Kosheleva, OUMI Akari, Arisa, KOGA Sarina

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1,496

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 9:30pm

Okay, so I'm a naive volleyball virgin. Like someone who sits at a professional poker table and hopes for good cards.

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1,497

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 9:41pm

Okay, so I'm a naive volleyball virgin. Like someone who sits at a professional poker table and hopes for good cards.


I think the beauty of Japan is that they will always be underdogs and underdogs will always pull out a surprises in order to win.

The days of Japan as the dominant volleyball nation is basically over but I want to be surprised by them. lol

Japan invented so much innovations that many teams are enjoying today and in sports especially volleyball.. It's just harder to be more experimental and keep winning when you are a short team and other teams are catching up to you in terms of technique.

Imo. Japan needs to catch up with the physicality of the other nations but unfortunately height doesn't grow like trees so maybe... they have to wait for their golden generation like Brazil with the likes of Sheilla,Paula,Mari,Fabiana,Jaque,Fabi,Sassa,Thaisa et al... I think time will come for that once again unless they can invent a leaping technique that can bring you to 400cm spiking height. :dance6:

Sisko95

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1,498

Tuesday, July 25th 2017, 9:52pm

The thing is, the very best players aren't just tall, they are skilled and quick as well. IMO Rasic is probably the best MB in the world right now. She is obviously tall, but that is not the only reason she is the best. As well as being tall, she is also pretty quick at getting into position to block or attack and she also can read the opponents' setter well to get into the right position.

My point is that the speed advantage of the smaller teams is just not as big an advantage as the height advantage that the top 5 or so teams in the world have. Tall players can train to be quicker, develop their technique and understand the game better, but small players can never be tall

ST2008

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1,499

Wednesday, July 26th 2017, 2:17am

You've just said it ,,, it was back in 1976! Plus, Russian players weren't that tall back then...

I'm pretty sure the Soviet players (most are Russians) were relatively taller than players from other teams, especially if we compare to the Japanese players.

1,500

Wednesday, July 26th 2017, 5:44am

as i said, i think PER in 1988 was the last time a short team was really at the top... i didn't watch VB back then, but i'm pretty sure the peruvians were much shorter than the soviets and other teams.

btw, too bad CUB boycotted 1988 olympics, i wonder how high were they ranked in the world at the time.

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