CEV Champions League 2017

    Quote from Meatballs

    I agree that it looks like a great formula but it has a big handicap as well. Fenerbahce is ranked number 1 here and is supposed to play against the weakest of top 6 but that's not because Fenerbahce is actually the best among other 6, it is because they were lucky and they had very easy opponents in their group while Vakifbank had to play against 3 really strong teams. Same applies for Moscow and Zurich, it all makes the serpentine system questionnable unfortunately :white:


    I totally agree that this ranking does not represent actual power of teams (Eczacıbaşı is for sure not the weakest team of these 6) but there should be some pre-determined rules instead of leaving the pairing to CEV's arbitrary initiative :down: Overall ranking would also force teams to play full roster in "unimportant" matches when they already secured their first slot in their group and give the motivation to win as many point as possible so that they can get a good position in the overall ranking.

    The rule was that CEV didn't want 2 teams from the same country in the final. That also means there can't be 3 teams from the same country in the semi-finals because then there would be a chance for 2 of them to meet in the final. That rule has been changed this year so it is possible for Vakif, Fener and Vitra to be in the F4. Maybe this was a stupid rule, but I don't think it was brought in to help Italian teams just to make sure the final was an international match

    Quote from Piervi


    On this page, the CEV writes about the DoL for the playoff 6 phase, without mentioning any for the F4. So, my 2 cents: it will be a totally random series of pairings, and it will determine also those for the F4...


    Thanks ^^



    Quote from Sisko95

    The rule was that CEV didn't want 2 teams from the same country in the final. That also means there can't be 3 teams from the same country in the semi-finals because then there would be a chance for 2 of them to meet in the final. That rule has been changed this year so it is possible for Vakif, Fener and Vitra to be in the F4. Maybe this was a stupid rule, but I don't think it was brought in to help Italian teams just to make sure the final was an international match


    Exactly! Thank for taking the time to explain that, I couldn't have done that better ^^ (actually, I wouldn't have done that at all in order not to waste my time for someone that won't listen, so thank you again for having the patience I don't have :flower: )



    Quote from serdar

    Overall ranking would also force teams to play full roster in "unimportant" matches when they already secured their first slot in their group and give the motivation to win as many point as possible so that they can get a good position in the overall ranking.


    Yeah, that was my point too, but you explained it way better than me! -->

    Quote from Kk15

    Plus, the 'serpentina formula' would force the teams not only to be the first in their own pool, but also to have much points possible, which sometimes can avoid a insignificant last match (but I think this happen more in male CL, because all the firsts and seconds do pass for sure, so they often know their position in the pool quite early – or at least they know if they're qualified to the play off and that the only need 1/2 points to get the first place).

    Quote from serdar

    Overall ranking would also force teams to play full roster in "unimportant" matches when they already secured their first slot in their group and give the motivation to win as many point as possible so that they can get a good position in the overall ranking.


    Yeah, that was my point too, but you explained it way better than me! -->

    Quote from Kk15

    Plus, the 'serpentina formula' would force the teams not only to be the first in their own pool, but also to have much points possible, which sometimes can avoid a insignificant last match (but I think this happen more in male CL, because all the firsts and seconds do pass for sure, so they often know their position in the pool quite early – or at least they know if they're qualified to the play off and that the only need 1/2 points to get the first place).


    Oh sorry, I missed your previous comment. Good that we are on the same page :drink:

    Quote from Kk15

    Exactly! Thank for taking the time to explain that, I couldn't have done that better (actually, I wouldn't have done that at all in order not to waste my time for someone that won't listen, so thank you again for having the patience I don't have )

    I don't blame you for that :lol:

    Quote from serdar

    I totally agree that this ranking does not represent actual power of teams (Eczacıbaşı is for sure not the weakest team of these 6) but there should be some pre-determined rules instead of leaving the pairing to CEV's arbitrary initiative :down: Overall ranking would also force teams to play full roster in "unimportant" matches when they already secured their first slot in their group and give the motivation to win as many point as possible so that they can get a good position in the overall ranking.

    If this formula is followed, then it is really important to make groups even. I dont know how CEV decides on groups, but in football, they divide teams already in different pools based on their rankings from previous years and then they pick one team from each of the 4 pools to make sure that there are 4 teams representing each pool. This of course has a handicap that a team with full of success in previous years might lose sponsors and make a terrible team this season. Looks like a difficult problem to solve :drink:

    i knew about the stuff u are talking about but imo that isnt a rule but a scam in no other sport u have this so called rule,draws are held u get a team u play against them and if u win u go to final 4 ,semis or what ever only in cev is there such a scam called a rule cause they know if italian teams played against any turkish or azeri team who were then one of the best they would lose so what do they do they get drawned easiest opponent each year just check last 8 years who did italian team that was in final 4 play against and u will see it,i have nothing against italian teams but this is more then obvious

    Quote from Meatballs

    If this formula is followed, then it is really important to make groups even. I dont know how CEV decides on groups, but in football, they divide teams already in different pools based on their rankings from previous years and then they pick one team from each of the 4 pools to make sure that there are 4 teams representing each pool. This of course has a handicap that a team with full of success in previous years might lose sponsors and make a terrible team this season. Looks like a difficult problem to solve :drink:



    Currently CEV use seeding from country ranking. So the champion teams from top 4 country were seeded, which is kinda fair. I think best idea to reduce pool to pool variability is to have pools of 6 and have only 2 or 3 groups instead of 4X4

    Ok, so it's:


    1) Modena vs. Moscow
    2) Volero vs. Vakif
    3) Fener vs. Ecza


    And the F4 semis:


    - Imoco vs. W1
    - W2 vs. W3

    Oh god! Still the same stupid rule from CEV that 3 teams from the same country not allowed in F4 and will be forced eliminated in playoffs? They simply learnt nothing.


    Then, why the hell Turkish teams should all invest if one of them won't win a prize from CL at all? Why the hell do we have to accept that one team clearly didnt deserve to be in F4 and is actually there because two strong ones had to play against each other because of this silly rule. Is there any other example of this in other sports?


    Maybe it's best to cancel the F4 system and turn it to a Cev cup system. I feel really bad for all the investments that Turkish clubs making every year and one has to say no without a medal because of this rule :aww:

    Oh and dont come to me with but they will lose lots of sponsors if they allow 3 teams from the same country argument. This is sports after all, if it is all about money, then let the sponsors decide which teams should be in F4, which teams should win, be 2nd and 3rd. It is better they sponsor their teams to make sure that they actually make it to F4 by deserving it truly :wall:

    Sorry Meatballs, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm not sure I'm getting it: how does this sentence...


    Quote from Meatballs

    I feel really bad for all the investments that Turkish clubs making every year and one has to say no without a medal because of this rule :aww:


    reconcile with this one?


    Quote from Meatballs

    This is sports after all, if it is all about money, then let the sponsors decide which teams should be in F4, which teams should win, be 2nd and 3rd. It is better they sponsor their teams to make sure that they actually make it to F4 by deserving it truly :wall:


    So, is it about money and sponsors or not?

    Sry but am I the only one who understand something different of the term "drawing lots" ?
    This was a drawing of lots? Really?! It is getting more funny from year to year CEV. There was actually no really drawing lots. The teams who are playing against each other were already written on the little sheet of paper when they picked the little ball to take out the paper. Sry but this was just a visuable event with a terrible live stream where there was no sound with a bad camera quality. They could have done it without it if the pairs were already made for the playoff 6 and should not made a "big" event of it with the title "drawing of lots on Friday, stay tuned bla bla bla ...."


    It was like the system someone wrote here earlier. Vakif-ECZ was impossible due to both teams were already in the same pool, same thing here also for Moscow and Zürich.
    Fener as the strongest one got ECZ and Vakif as the 2nd strongest got Zürich and last Moscow got Modena.



    And I would be happy to see 2 Italian and 2 Turkish teams in the F4.

    Quote from Piervi

    Sorry Meatballs, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm not sure I'm getting it: how does this sentence...



    reconcile with this one?



    So, is it about money and sponsors or not?

    I knew this was coming when I wrote it. By investments in the first comment, I dont only mean "monetary" investments. Turkish volleyball is getting bigger, new halls, new facilities, better investments for youngsters to improve, more alternatives for everyone to join this sport, better coaches etc.


    However, as I mentioned in my second comment, the sponsors are almost forcing and deciding who should be in the F4, simply buying places for teams which is dissapointing for a country where this sport has been developing enormously in the last 10-15 years. How will you explain this to the clubs which do actually put all their efforts to build the best teams to win a medal?

    You are not the only one. CEV is acting like an amateur. They obviously thought in the very beginning that it will be cool to make a live drawing like in Champions League of Football but there you actually draw among many teams and there is no F4. The only exciting thing with this draw was to see who will play in semis in F4, now we know only 1 Turkish team can get gold or silver...Really bad planning indeed, it is better to cancel the drawing then making it in a small conference room with terrible blurry slides and no voice. We have better facilities in my university here, so I welcome them here or if they send me the list, I can do the drawing for them with voice+slides on screen directly :cheesy: :lol:

    Poor Volero, always wants to qualify to the F4 and always gets the strongest opponent one step before. I mean it was always a turkish team the last years who kicked them out of the competition, right? Maybe except one time?



    I guess Volero wants to host the F4 as well, they have the money and they know it could be obviously easier for them being at the F4 as a host and not being so close to qualify but in the end to be eliminated. And I was thinking a long time why they have never been the host, until now.
    I think it is the hall problem, money could not be a reason. They already play their CL matches at Saalsporthalle which fits to the rules of CEV just so. Maybe they could not find a hall for a big event like this?
    Same was with Casalmaggiore right? Renting the hall from Montichiari, but there is no bigger club or bigger hal than Volero and Voleros hall in the Swiss League.
    If I am not wrong, Chemik also hosted the F4 in a different city and hall. And an azerbaijani team built the Crystal Hall into a volleyball hall.
    Maybe Volero can't find a building a place whatever to turn it into a volleyball hall which fits the standards of CEV for an event like this?


    Regarding Volero: they could play in Hallenstadion, despite it might be a bit oversized (icehockey is main user, around 15.000 seats (!)).


    They were already once F4 hosts a number of years ago, and so far I know it is the fourth consecutive time they play Istanbul in Playoff 6, despite it was not always, but mostly VakifBank. Hey, if they want to win, they have to beat also VakifBank, so difficult this uphill battle will be...

    The ridiculous part of this is that they actually pretended to change the rules but clearly didn't and the draw is just as I predicted.


    Imagine what shiznut will say :roll: