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StefanS

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541

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 1:57pm

Poor Volero, always wants to qualify to the F4 and always gets the strongest opponent one step before. I mean it was always a turkish team the last years who kicked them out of the competition, right? Maybe except one time?


I guess Volero wants to host the F4 as well, they have the money and they know it could be obviously easier for them being at the F4 as a host and not being so close to qualify but in the end to be eliminated. And I was thinking a long time why they have never been the host, until now.
I think it is the hall problem, money could not be a reason. They already play their CL matches at Saalsporthalle which fits to the rules of CEV just so. Maybe they could not find a hall for a big event like this?
Same was with Casalmaggiore right? Renting the hall from Montichiari, but there is no bigger club or bigger hal than Volero and Voleros hall in the Swiss League.
If I am not wrong, Chemik also hosted the F4 in a different city and hall. And an azerbaijani team built the Crystal Hall into a volleyball hall.
Maybe Volero can't find a building a place whatever to turn it into a volleyball hall which fits the standards of CEV for an event like this?


Regarding Volero: they could play in Hallenstadion, despite it might be a bit oversized (icehockey is main user, around 15.000 seats (!)).

They were already once F4 hosts a number of years ago, and so far I know it is the fourth consecutive time they play Istanbul in Playoff 6, despite it was not always, but mostly VakifBank. Hey, if they want to win, they have to beat also VakifBank, so difficult this uphill battle will be...


Sorry, despite it is indeed Voleros 4th consecutive Playoff-6 appearance (and without that former F4 hosting they never reached that F4 again), but in 2014 they lost not against Istanbul, but against later winner Dynamo Kazan in the Playoff-6. After that it was one time VakifBank already and one time Eczacibasi.

StefanS

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542

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 2:24pm

When I consider official rules, that first three from groups play against last three (excluding F4 host of course) and group members must not play each other in Playoff-6, there were just three allowed permutations (and not 6), so each of them had 1/3 probability in an unbiased draw:

FEN,VAK,MOS were the first three. FEN had no exclusions, because was the only team qualified from its group. VAK had exclusion ESC, because they were in same group, as MOS had exclusion VOL, because in the same group. So the easiest approach to see it, is to pair MOD with every of the three first teams, remainder is then forced by the mentioned rules:

1. FEN vs. MOD enforces VAK vs. VOL and MOS vs. ESC

2. VAK vs. MOD enforces MOS vs. ESC and FEN vs. VOL

3. MOS vs. MOD enforces VAK vs. VOL and FEN vs. ESC (what was the result)

For example you can see, that Volero had 2/3 probability then to get VAK as opponent, also MOS vs. ESC happens in two of three possible outcomes, but the last not in the actual result.

It is hard to state, that it was intentionally done, of course full tree with F4 complicates things, despite Istanbul duel happens only in one of three outcomes in total (!).

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543

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 3:43pm

The ridiculous part of this is that they actually pretended to change the rules but clearly didn't and the draw is just as I predicted.


I agree... except when you call it 'draw' :lol:

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544

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 3:56pm

The outcome of the DOL is certainly according the wish of CEV.

As no one expected, Turkish teams will compete against each other, as usual... :whistle: :whistle: to prevent the possibility of the 3 best teams in F4... :wall:

CEV is a bunch of losers..really...

In all other big sports, it doesn't matter what country a club is from...only for silly CEV.

545

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 4:03pm

I told you guys... Conegliano would not face a Turkish team in the semis. Just like last season when Pomi played Kazan and got lucky that Gamova and Starteseva did not play. Now Conegliano hopes Modena wins, or if Moscow wins, they will probably make sure something happens and Goncharova and DeLacruz can`t play.

I feel bad for the loosing of Vitra vs Fernebache.

CEV gave the power for Conegliano as the host, to decide who they wanted to play in the semis.

I guess Italy found the way to put their teams on the TOP again....just pay for it. :flower:

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546

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 5:47pm

So the draw was just a chirade to keep the old system in allowing the host to have advantages of getting the gold easier than other teams. When will we see the best teams facing each other in the finals is a big question.

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547

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 5:58pm

I didn't claim that CEV works with integrity - I fear, they don't know how to write this word, to be honest :( .

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548

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 6:53pm

I told you guys... Conegliano would not face a Turkish team in the semis. Just like last season when Pomi played Kazan and got lucky that Gamova and Starteseva did not play. Now Conegliano hopes Modena wins, or if Moscow wins, they will probably make sure something happens and Goncharova and DeLacruz can`t play.

I feel bad for the loosing of Vitra vs Fernebache.

CEV gave the power for Conegliano as the host, to decide who they wanted to play in the semis.

I guess Italy found the way to put their teams on the TOP again....just pay for it. :flower:



And that is what makes me angry. Sry for all italian or conegliano fans but Conegliano doesn't deserve anything than being 4th in the F4. They really really bought their ticket to the F4 whereas the others have to really fight hard for a ticket to the F4. I am not against Italian teams but being announced as a host where the group stage hasn't been completed doesn't make any sense, especially if this team would not even qualify for the playoffs! I would say that to any other club in that position!

The best outcome would be, choosing one team from the 6 qualified teams, announcing them as a host and letting the 3rd best second placed team advance to the playoffs as well, in this case: Azerrail Baku! That is a really shame!

Edit: Okay sry it would be Conegliano as the 3rd best 2nd placed team but nevertheless they have to fight hard for F4 instead buying it.

Kk15

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549

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 7:14pm

So the draw was just a chirade to keep the old system in allowing the host to have advantages of getting the gold easier than other teams. When will we see the best teams facing each other in the finals is a big question.

I'm not so sure about that, otherwise I can't understand why in the men CL Perugia isn't facing the 'quartet' with Mosca, Berlin and the two Turkish team.

Obviously Conegliano got an easy path, I'm not denying that, but Perugia didn't (probably Kazan would have been worst, but I'm not even so sure). Since in Italy (unlike Turkey) men teams are richer than women (even double rich!), I'm missing something behind CEV scheme :S

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550

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 7:45pm

I just read the other comments and thank you guys, I'm really glad we, the actual volleyball spectators are in the same page and don't like the way CL work :win:

551

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 7:58pm



Edit: Okay sry it would be Conegliano as the 3rd best 2nd placed team but nevertheless they have to fight hard for F4 instead buying it.
Conegliano played the final games knowing they would host ( I will not be surprised if they knew long before). Which means, they played without any pressure at all, while Modena was playing under big pressure.,Otherwise they would have lost for Modena the final match, and Baku would be the 3rd best team.

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552

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 8:01pm



Edit: Okay sry it would be Conegliano as the 3rd best 2nd placed team but nevertheless they have to fight hard for F4 instead buying it.
Conegliano played the final games knowing they would host ( I will not be surprised if they knew long before). Which means, they played without any pressure at all, while Modena was playing under big pressure.,Otherwise they would have lost for Modena the final match, and Baku would be the 3rd best team.



Yeah I know, I was going to write this but in the end I left it, same with Azerrail. Even if Conegliano won against Modena, Azerrail could have played different knowing if they still could qualify with a 3-0 / 3-1 win against Tauron.

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553

Friday, March 3rd 2017, 9:52pm

cev strikes again what a surprise (argh not) i told u cev has been doing this for years when it comes to italian clubs i can t actually recall when was the last time italian team actually deserved to be in final 4 due to their own performance and not getting the spot by paying either spot or draws,and who did italian team get this year yeah the weakest team again ,cev should make a rule that each year a italian team has to have a spot in final 4 just make it official and be done with it,it should no longer matter how good u are but how deep your wallet is way to go cev may u all burn in hell!

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554

Saturday, March 4th 2017, 12:17am


1-Fenerbahçe
2-Vakıbank
3-Dinamo
4-Modena
5-Volero
6-Eczacıbaşı

Thus, the most fair draw would be: Fenerbahçe-Eczacıbaşı, Vakıfbank-Volero and Dinamo-Modena :whistle:
Your formula would be perfect. (CEV should really adopt it.)

Then for the semis I would do this...have the Host going against the highest ranked team coming into the semis. Let`s say Conegliano would face Femernahce if they win. But if Vitra (6) wins, Conegliano would face Vakfbank (2), and if Vakfibank looses to (5) Volero, Conegliano would face the winner of (3) Moscow or (4) Modena.


I am not sure if CEV follow the same logic with me but I am happy to see that pairings were done as I indicated before. To me drawing seems to be fair although there was probably no real drawing :rolleyes:

Dinamo and Vakıfbank are favourites to reach final 4 however, it is really hard to guess FB-ECZ match. Eczacıbaşı is a mess although they have amazing roster while FB is showing their best although they have limited roster (compared to other two istanbul teams). I still think that Eczacıbaşı has %51 chance to reach F4

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555

Saturday, March 4th 2017, 1:45am

Nalan Ural, manager of Eczacibasi shared some tweets showing how surprised she is with the draw. Her reasoning was, there were 2 turkish teams already in the same group to apply the new rule that 3 teams from the same country can be in F4. She said she is disappointed with the draw...

556

Saturday, March 4th 2017, 10:07am

my thoughts on the pairs of the playoffs

Eczacıbaşı Vitra - Fenerbahçe :
Vitra will play with full force but there are some problems .if they solve them then they can beat Fb.Fb hasnt been playing like they did in Turkish Cup but when it matters they can
seems the golden set will decide which team advances.i would give %50 chance to each team

Volero - Vakıfbank : : Volero-Vakıf matches are always tough..If Volero wins at home with 3- point then they can do their best in a probable golden set in Istanbul.still VB is closer to F4 than Volero

Modena - Dinamo : Has a Russian team advanced to f4 against an Italian team in recent years ? once again an italian team in front.If Dinamo could keep its level high then they have chance for F4.Italian teams are better than Russians when coming to team-play,defences etc...Brako has been play better now but Özsoy not playing well in recent matches.I think both teams have %50 chance for F4
meso mi ra se beno...

557

Saturday, March 4th 2017, 11:33am


1-Fenerbahçe
2-Vakıbank
3-Dinamo
4-Modena
5-Volero
6-Eczacıbaşı

Thus, the most fair draw would be: Fenerbahçe-Eczacıbaşı, Vakıfbank-Volero and Dinamo-Modena :whistle:
Your formula would be perfect. (CEV should really adopt it.)

Then for the semis I would do this...have the Host going against the highest ranked team coming into the semis. Let`s say Conegliano would face Femernahce if they win. But if Vitra (6) wins, Conegliano would face Vakfbank (2), and if Vakfibank looses to (5) Volero, Conegliano would face the winner of (3) Moscow or (4) Modena.


I am not sure if CEV follow the same logic with me but I am happy to see that pairings were done as I indicated before. To me drawing seems to be fair although there was probably no real drawing :rolleyes:

Dinamo and Vakıfbank are favourites to reach final 4 however, it is really hard to guess FB-ECZ match. Eczacıbaşı is a mess although they have amazing roster while FB is showing their best although they have limited roster (compared to other two istanbul teams). I still think that Eczacıbaşı has %51 chance to reach F4
I dont think Vakifbank is the absolute favorite. Volero has a good team and they are dangerous. Also don't forget their "close" relations with CEV. Referees and organisations are always on Volero's side. I hope we will watch good matches but i still hope Vakif will be the winner.

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558

Wednesday, March 8th 2017, 7:45am

The press officer of polish league posted that on twitter.

That's Europen Cups ranking list. I am surprised that Switzerland is higher than Italy.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Phil" (Mar 8th 2017, 7:51am)


StefanS

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559

Wednesday, March 8th 2017, 5:20pm

The press officer of polish league posted that on twitter.

That's Europen Cups ranking list. I am surprised that Switzerland is higher than Italy.


I can only guess, why this is: because Volero is much stronger than German clubs they collect a lot of points in CL (4th consecutive Playoff-6 participation now, all three previous are in this ranking), but best German clubs are clearly stronger than remainder of swiss clubs, therefore CEV cup results are in favour of Bundesliga against Swiss national league.

And I assume, that still Italian teams neglecting CEV cup participation makes the difference: Italy should be at least of fourth instead of now weak Azerbeidschan, I think, but the Azeri will vanish from top spots next season (I'm not sure, if German league should be happy, if they should inherit two fixed group phase places, because competition is too hard currently for us).

IMHO current CL season shows, that on a high level only the clubs of Turkey, Russia, Italy, Poland and the special case of Volero ZÜRICH make sense to be in CL groups. Therefore the purpose to strengthen competition is currently not fully achieved.

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560

Wednesday, March 8th 2017, 5:38pm

I think Volero has a chance if they stay in system and if Olesia doesn't choke again or if Coach Terzic sees the choker in her before the lead disappears for them or the lead blows against them.


The press officer of polish league posted that on twitter.

That's Europen Cups ranking list. I am surprised that Switzerland is higher than Italy.


I can only guess, why this is: because Volero is much stronger than German clubs they collect a lot of points in CL (4th consecutive Playoff-6 participation now, all three previous are in this ranking), but best German clubs are clearly stronger than remainder of swiss clubs, therefore CEV cup results are in favour of Bundesliga against Swiss national league.

And I assume, that still Italian teams neglecting CEV cup participation makes the difference: Italy should be at least of fourth instead of now weak Azerbeidschan, I think, but the Azeri will vanish from top spots next season (I'm not sure, if German league should be happy, if they should inherit two fixed group phase places, because competition is too hard currently for us).

IMHO current CL season shows, that on a high level only the clubs of Turkey, Russia, Italy, Poland and the special case of Volero ZÜRICH make sense to be in CL groups. Therefore the purpose to strengthen competition is currently not fully achieved.


There's no point really for Italian teams to participate if the prizes are low and cost-inefficient and the Italian league being an open season for anyone doesn't help either.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rains_of_Castamere" (Mar 8th 2017, 5:46pm)


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