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41

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 12:09pm

Sunday Tiffany de Abreu (ex Rodrigo) made her debut in Palmi scoring 28 points. There are a lot of complaining here in Italy about this issue, people are divided in their thoughts on this.

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42

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 1:47pm

Sunday Tiffany de Abreu (ex Rodrigo) made her debut in Palmi scoring 28 points. There are a lot of complaining here in Italy about this issue, people are divided in their thoughts on this.



Italian people are actually more open-minded than I expected. We all agree that transgenders must not be discriminated and should have equal rights as all other citizens.
However here the matter is Women's Rights. Women's right to play volleyball at high level. This right is now in danger, because with transgenders being allowed in female leagues, and there will be more and more in the next years, women born women will be no longer able to compete.
Sunday match in Italian A2 between Palmi and Trento made it finally clear. Tiffany, who is now considered a woman after hormones treatment and surgery, still jumps and spikes like a man. And this is not fair.
I'm very sorry for transgenders, but my opinion is that they should not be admitted to female sport competitions. FIVB must make a decision soon and take action. As I said before, Women's right to play volleyball and all other sports is in danger.

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43

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:18pm

Tiffany de Abreu

Women's right to play volleyball and all other sports is in danger

What do you mean by that? Do you genuinely believe that suddenly all transgender woman will start to train for becoming professional volleyball players and dominate the volleyball leagues? :aww:

There are female players who are way stronger than average woman (Mihajlovic, Zhu, Montano) or Gamova and Diouf have enormous advantage over other competitors thanks to their exceptional height but no one is trying to ban them from playing volleyball. With your logic, one could claim that presence of these players prevent "women born physically weaker" or women born short"playing volleyball. :whistle:

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44

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 5:21pm

Sunday Tiffany de Abreu (ex Rodrigo) made her debut in Palmi scoring 28 points. There are a lot of complaining here in Italy about this issue, people are divided in their thoughts on this.
Italian people are actually more open-minded than I expected. We all agree that transgenders must not be discriminated and should have equal rights as all other citizens.
However here the matter is Women's Rights. Women's right to play volleyball at high level. This right is now in danger, because with transgenders being allowed in female leagues, and there will be more and more in the next years, women born women will be no longer able to compete.
Sunday match in Italian A2 between Palmi and Trento made it finally clear. Tiffany, who is now considered a woman after hormones treatment and surgery, still jumps and spikes like a man. And this is not fair.
I'm very sorry for transgenders, but my opinion is that they should not be admitted to female sport competitions. FIVB must make a decision soon and take action. As I said before, Women's right to play volleyball and all other sports is in danger.

I understand your point, but you make it sound like there are dozens of male players waiting in line to change their sex and take away the places of born female players, it's surely not like that.
For the same reasons you could say that players over 2m are not allowed in women volleyball because they have an advantage over "normal women". Yes, Tiffany may have a physical advantage over many players still, but she said in an interview that after hormone therapy her jump and attack power has decreased immensely. Just let her live her life and do what she loves, it's not like she became a women in order to become volleyball world champion.

EDIT Serdar posted exactly my thoughts in his own words at just the same time :white:

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45

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 6:14pm

1. As regards super phisically endowed women, this is a totally different topic. They were born with great physical qualities, but they are biologically women.

2. Yes, I genuinely think that there will be more and more cases like this in the future. Medical science and technology will develop drastically and more and more people who don't identify in their assigned sex will go under surgeries and treatments to change it. Which is a very good thing, and ALL people who choose to do so deserve the maximum protection, support and respect.
But in the case of men becoming women, it's obvious that a big problem will arise in female volleyball and more in general in female sports. Especially when there will be many women born men, not just a few cases like now.
I respect your points of view, but I am pretty sure in a near future you will agree with mine. :thumbup:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Toguttt" (Feb 21st 2017, 6:19pm)


46

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 7:07pm

In opinion I don`t think it is fair, I`m gay, so don`t think I`m homophobic, the main difference between men`s and women`s volleyball is exactly the physical strength.
No matter how much her body has changed, she was born with the strength of man and she will never looses that.

I just watched the video of her playing with the men`s. Which means if she can fully play against men, can you imagine the advantage she has playing against born women?

I don`t think even Gamova, Martinez, Diouf, Zhu or any women would be able to play against men. They would be in risk of getting seriously injured. ( I heard of some women`s team practicing with men, usually junior players, But practicing and playing are 2 different things).

Of course a 6`8 women has advantage over a 5`8 player. The same as in men as 7`2 has advantage over a 6`2. And that`s why we don`t see any 5`2 women or 5`8 men playing right ( Of course there`s a few like Takeshita and so on) but generally speaking.
But this is not about height, it is about sex gender.
Why do we have men`s and women`s sports? Because they can`t compete together due to difference in physical strength. Otherwise they should all just play mixed together.
And Tiffany was born with men`s gene.
I thin she should play in a men`s team not women`s.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "rbdfabio" (Feb 21st 2017, 7:23pm)


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47

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 7:40pm

^ You may not be homophobic, but you sure as hell are transphobic! :D

Some interesting notes from an article wrote about her in a Brazilian blog:

- Tifanny says there are girls in her own team with more testosterone than her;
- She also states that her reach has dropped from 3,50m pre-transition to 3,20m/3,25m at most post-transition (Egonu and Zhu Ting, for example, reach 3,36m and 3,27m respectively);

You don't keep your male physique after undergoing transition. With the hormone therapy, your body changes considerably, not just your looks. She wouldn't be playing in a female league if there weren't studies and regulations available. She's a woman. Period.
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48

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 7:45pm

Sunday Tiffany de Abreu (ex Rodrigo) made her debut in Palmi scoring 28 points. There are a lot of complaining here in Italy about this issue, people are divided in their thoughts on this.


Tiffany, who is now considered a woman after hormones treatment and surgery, still jumps and spikes like a man.


Actually she lost after all changes these years, from 360 cm to 315. Cubans, Akinradewo and other players reach 330 or even more...

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49

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 7:48pm

Sunday Tiffany de Abreu (ex Rodrigo) made her debut in Palmi scoring 28 points. There are a lot of complaining here in Italy about this issue, people are divided in their thoughts on this.
Italian people are actually more open-minded than I expected. We all agree that transgenders must not be discriminated and should have equal rights as all other citizens.
However here the matter is Women's Rights. Women's right to play volleyball at high level. This right is now in danger, because with transgenders being allowed in female leagues, and there will be more and more in the next years, women born women will be no longer able to compete.
Sunday match in Italian A2 between Palmi and Trento made it finally clear. Tiffany, who is now considered a woman after hormones treatment and surgery, still jumps and spikes like a man. And this is not fair.
I'm very sorry for transgenders, but my opinion is that they should not be admitted to female sport competitions. FIVB must make a decision soon and take action. As I said before, Women's right to play volleyball and all other sports is in danger.

I understand your point, but you make it sound like there are dozens of male players waiting in line to change their sex and take away the places of born female players, it's surely not like that.
For the same reasons you could say that players over 2m are not allowed in women volleyball because they have an advantage over "normal women". Yes, Tiffany may have a physical advantage over many players still, but she said in an interview that after hormone therapy her jump and attack power has decreased immensely. Just let her live her life and do what she loves, it's not like she became a women in order to become volleyball world champion.

EDIT Serdar posted exactly my thoughts in his own words at just the same time :white:


:rose: Bravo! Totally agree with you!

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50

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 7:55pm

Last season another transwoman played in A2, libero Alessia Ameri but there wasnt such controversy... The problem is always against women, I haven't heard anything against transmen (and there're few playing volleyball). Maybe it's not a volleyball worries, but transphobia / misogyny.

Volleyball always has been an inclusive sport but I'm really scared of these opinions...

51

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 8:16pm

I think Sesi should just hire Zhu for next season right?? At least I think she is way stronger than Douglas :lol:.

^ You may not be homophobic, but you sure as hell are transphobic! :D

Some interesting notes from an article wrote about her in a Brazilian blog:

- Tifanny says there are girls in her own team with more testosterone than her;
- She also states that her reach has dropped from 3,50m pre-transition to 3,20m/3,25m at most post-transition (Egonu and Zhu Ting, for example, reach 3,36m and 3,27m respectively);

You don't keep your male physique after undergoing transition. With the hormone therapy, your body changes considerably, not just your looks. She wouldn't be playing in a female league if there weren't studies and regulations available. She's a woman. Period.

52

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 8:46pm

I checked the stats and the highest score of a single match so far is Mingardi 38 points in a 5set.

And there`s only a few that scored over 25, and mostly were in 5 sets.

Tiffany came off the bench and scored 28 points in 3/4 sets. And this was her debut????? And Palmi is in 9th place but beat the 4th place Trentino...VOWWWW I guess she might be really really good, all the teams on Seria A should keep a eye on her. 28 points right off the bat is really impressive. :call: ( or maybe she just has a advantage over the other girls).

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "rbdfabio" (Feb 21st 2017, 8:59pm)


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53

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 9:10pm

I checked the stats and the highest score of a single match so far is Mingardi 38 points in a 5set.

And there`s only a few that scored over 25, and mostly were in 5 sets.


Sorry but you are lying...

Aricò 27 in 4 sets
Bici 26 in 4 sets
Vanzurova 26 in 4 sets
Fiore 26 in 4 sets
Manfredini 25 in 4 sets
Zanette 29 in 4 sets
Zanette 28 in 4 sets
Mingardi 27 in 4 sets
Baldi 25 in 4 sets
Manfredini 27 in 4 sets
Vanzurova 27 in 4 sets

Percan 29 in 5 sets
Saguatti 25 in 5 sets
Aricò 28 in 5 sets
Manfredini 25 in 5 sets
Baldi 26 in 5 sets
Coneo 26 in 5 sets
Angelina 36 in 5 sets
Percan 32 in 5 sets
Saguatti 30 in 5 sets
Bici 29 in 5 sets
Coneo 28 in 5 sets
Villani 29 in 5 sets
Nenkovska 25 in 5 sets
Bici 27 in 5 sets
Angelina 26 in 5 sets
Angelina 28 in 5 sets
Fiore 28 in 5 sets
Manfredini 30 in 5 sets
Mingardi 38 in 5 sets
Mingardi 31 in 5 sets
Nenkovska 27 in 5 sets
Saguatti 26 in 5 sets
Zanette 29 in 5 sets
Angelina 29 in 5 sets
Bici 32 in 5 sets

14 players in A2 scored 25 or more in 4 or 5 sets. Tifanny is the 15

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54

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 10:25pm

I checked the stats and the highest score of a single match so far is Mingardi 38 points in a 5set.

And there`s only a few that scored over 25, and mostly were in 5 sets.

Tiffany came off the bench and scored 28 points in 3/4 sets. And this was her debut????? And Palmi is in 9th place but beat the 4th place Trentino...VOWWWW I guess she might be really really good, all the teams on Seria A should keep a eye on her. 28 points right off the bat is really impressive. :call: ( or maybe she just has a advantage over the other girls).
For someone who's gay and should know what receiving hateful remarks feels like, you sure like spreading hate and disdain toward another minority yourself, huh? As you said in another thread, karma is a b*tch.
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55

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 11:41pm

or any women would be able to play against men. They would be in risk of getting seriously injured.

That's a big exaggeration.
Have you ever heard of mixed volleyball? In Italy is very practiced (3 women + 3 men or 2 women + 4 men, usually) and it can happen to play against male (or female) former players of D, C, and even B1/2 and A1/2!
I'm female AND 8 categories (8!) behind A1 and I'm still alive, despite playing vs men that played at these levels. And the net is 2.30 (in some championship 2.35).
And we also have females (and males) who have never played volleyball agonistically.
Fortunately the gym are often too short to allowed a full developed jump serve xD

I understand all you reasons, but remember that if she is somehow advantaged in female volleyball do to her male-past, she is also disadvantaged in male volleyball do to her hormone therapy.


I haven't heard anything against transmen (and there're few playing volleyball)

That's not surprising, since it's passing from the 'weak' sex to the 'strong' sex.

56

Tuesday, February 21st 2017, 11:52pm

Thanks for that chart. But it makes it even more clear.

Counting only 4 sets.

Only 8 players scored more than 25.

And only 1 player, Zanett , scored 29 and 28. All the other scored the most at 27.

This puts Tiffany in second place.

And I was not lying, as you can see only 8 players scored over 25 points in 4 sets....Which means only a few players did it.....While the others did it in 5 sets...and 14 is a number can be still be considered a few....
I checked the stats and the highest score of a single match so far is Mingardi 38 points in a 5set.

And there`s only a few that scored over 25, and mostly were in 5 sets.


Sorry but you are lying...

Aricò 27 in 4 sets
Bici 26 in 4 sets
Vanzurova 26 in 4 sets
Fiore 26 in 4 sets
Manfredini 25 in 4 sets
Zanette 29 in 4 sets
Zanette 28 in 4 sets
Mingardi 27 in 4 sets
Baldi 25 in 4 sets
Manfredini 27 in 4 sets
Vanzurova 27 in 4 sets

Percan 29 in 5 sets
Saguatti 25 in 5 sets
Aricò 28 in 5 sets
Manfredini 25 in 5 sets
Baldi 26 in 5 sets
Coneo 26 in 5 sets
Angelina 36 in 5 sets
Percan 32 in 5 sets
Saguatti 30 in 5 sets
Bici 29 in 5 sets
Coneo 28 in 5 sets
Villani 29 in 5 sets
Nenkovska 25 in 5 sets
Bici 27 in 5 sets
Angelina 26 in 5 sets
Angelina 28 in 5 sets
Fiore 28 in 5 sets
Manfredini 30 in 5 sets
Mingardi 38 in 5 sets
Mingardi 31 in 5 sets
Nenkovska 27 in 5 sets
Saguatti 26 in 5 sets
Zanette 29 in 5 sets
Angelina 29 in 5 sets
Bici 32 in 5 sets

14 players in A2 scored 25 or more in 4 or 5 sets. Tifanny is the 15

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57

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 12:02am

I prefer to say 14 instead of a few. 14 is a fact, a few is an opinion. But coming back to the topic, is scoring the only way to calibrate if she is a good player? I don't like this vision of volleyball. I asked why Alessia Ameri, another trans that played in A2 last season as libero, wasn't a problem and nobody answered...

58

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 12:07am

The reason that this Blog is so slow ( not a lot people on here) is because people on here can`t have a mature conversation? They get tired after a while and stop coming in here?

I even said she should be playing with the men, if I hated her, I would say she should not be playing at all.

And I lot of times I only reply to posts, because I see that nobody basically answers when someone post or ask something, I just try to be nice and show that they are not being ignored and they are being heard.


But It is no annoying to get personally attacked here all the time... We are here to talk about volleyball players and not about us, so please don`t say personal things about me ( or anybody else) like I`m spreading hate, because it is not true. U dont know anything about me, the reason I left Brazil is because I was bullied every single day in school for being gay, and my parents did not accept me..... so yeah u r right about that.

And the first thing i wrote on my post I said...IN MY OPINION< which means this is my OPINION and I have the right to have one...
If you dont like my opinion, then it is your problem, if you want to show I`m wrong, just express your opinion and reason without attacking me personally.


Once again, we are not here to talk about me, we are talking about Tiffany..
I checked the stats and the highest score of a single match so far is Mingardi 38 points in a 5set.

And there`s only a few that scored over 25, and mostly were in 5 sets.

Tiffany came off the bench and scored 28 points in 3/4 sets. And this was her debut????? And Palmi is in 9th place but beat the 4th place Trentino...VOWWWW I guess she might be really really good, all the teams on Seria A should keep a eye on her. 28 points right off the bat is really impressive. :call: ( or maybe she just has a advantage over the other girls).
For someone who's gay and should know what receiving hateful remarks feels like, you sure like spreading hate and disdain toward another minority yourself, huh? As you said in another thread, karma is a b*tch.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "rbdfabio" (Feb 22nd 2017, 12:18am)


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59

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 12:43am

I just saw this Tiffany for the first time playing volleyball. Just amazing. I really like the way she kills the ball. She destroyed the other team basically. :cheesy:

I don't care a bit she was a man before. :win:
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60

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 1:22am

Nobody here is homophobic or transphobic. This should be underlined. It's very sad to read such insults and personal attacks against people who have a different opinion.

And the reason why nobody talks about women who become men is that this is not relevant in relation to sport. Women who become men obviously will never be able to compete in male leagues...they are simply too weak.

Anyway this is the link to sunday match Palmi-Trento: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=JA8qqa71psk
Tiffany enters from bench at minute 27:00 when the score is 10-17.
Enjoy...

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