Which league is best?

  • which league best do you think ?
    my first 4 ranking that
    1-italia
    2-turkey
    3-rusya
    4-spain

  • Totally agree with you :whistling:


    So do I :)

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • It will sounds very provocative coming from me but:


    1.- Italy


    2.- Russia


    3.- Poland


    4.- Brazil


    5.- Turkey

  • 1 - Italy
    2 - Russia
    3 - Brasil
    4 - Spain


    The best two teams from Brazil's Superliga can win any National League in the World. It's a pity that the majority of Brazil's NT players are playing in Italy and Spain. Were these players in the Brazil's Superliga, we would have a much stronger League, maybe the strongest in the world. It's a pity we have only two strong sponsors!

  • 1 - Italy
    2 - Russia
    3 - Brasil
    4 - Spain


    The best two teams from Brazil's Superliga can win any National League in the World. It's a pity that the majority of Brazil's NT players are playing in Italy and Spain. Were these players in the Brazil's Superliga, we would have a much stronger League, maybe the strongest in the world. It's a pity we have only two strong sponsors!

    Two strongest Netherlands teams can win almost all leagues in the world. But it doesn't put Netherlands on a third place.

  • Totally agree with you :whistling:


    do you mean poland league is better than turkey,don t make me laugh :lol: :tzz:
    which great player is playing poland league except ana baranska,dzikiewicz(may be ı can say malada spalova) 8)
    but in turkey,taismary aguera,nancy metcalf,tayyibe haneef,vesna çitakoviç,inessa korkmaz,reikka lehtonen,anery vargas,slvia rolla,olena gasukha,valeriya korotenko,oxana guliyeva,kimberly glass,atika bougaa...etc. all these great players are playing in our league with our NT's all players(except neslihan demir and elif ağca)
    in my opinion,turkey is better league even russian league :thumbup:

  • well, you are right by saying that turkey has more international stars than the polish league. But big names arent everything, if it was then the spanish league would be right after the italian and russian, but it isnt.
    Its about the league level generally. And i think that eventhough Poland has no superstars left in their country it still shows a great level of volleyball throughout the majority of the teams. It seems like all teams are able to beat each other.
    But of course they have some "typical" favourites as Kalisz, Bielsko Bialo, Pila and Muszynianka, too.


    Turkey has a strong NT and maybe also a very strong league, but big tournaments still show that they cant compete with the A-class (both cases). While a so "weak league"(pol.) and its teams can?


    I hope you understand what i mean. Of course great names are wonderful for the sports and the publicity of the leagues, but why should Polands Clubs hide themself if they are even able to win against teams like Amstelveen, without having superstars as Haneef etc in their roster.

  • ı see you nastja,
    don t misunderstand me,ı accept that polish league has is interesting and amazing league.all team can beat themselves.but a strong league has to have lots of international great players,too.
    for example italy,they has a lot of international players,and has good italian players too.so it is best volleyball league.but poland don t have even good polish players of your NT.for example;skowronska,glinka,rosner,liktoras...etc.they play in foreign league.so your league level don t get higher.
    yes you are right your NT is has more succes than us (but just at the moment,a few years later we will beat you again :win: ) but reason of this great NT is that your player is playing in italian,spain or russian league.so your NT's level is get higher but,your league's level getting bad :thumbdown:

  • ı see you nastja,
    don t misunderstand me,ı accept that polish league has is interesting and amazing league.all team can beat themselves.but a strong league has to have lots of international great players,too.
    for example italy,they has a lot of international players,and has good italian players too.so it is best volleyball league.but poland don t have even good polish players of your NT.for example;skowronska,glinka,rosner,liktoras...etc.they play in foreign league.so your league level don t get higher.
    yes you are right your NT is has more succes than us (but just at the moment,a few years later we will beat you again :win: ) but reason of this great NT is that your player is playing in italian,spain or russian league.so your NT's level is get higher but,your league's level getting bad :thumbdown:

    And now please dont misunderstand me :D
    First of all the polish league is not mine, because im german and thats why im judging this topic objectivelly. Just cos i support the polish NT doesnt mean that i think that everything concerning poland is great.
    Serdar, look, you said it yourself even. The polish stars like Skowronska, Liktoras and Rosner arent in the league and still the level is very high and the clubs are able to compete with italian and other top teams.
    The problem of the polish league is that the salaries seem not as high as in countries like Spain, Italy, Russia and even Turkey, thats why its not attractive for international players to go to poland.
    And besides this i dont agree with your statement that the league is becoming worse.
    I think that the league is actually improving and bringing up young stars. And saying that the polish NT gets better just because the stars play abroad isnt right either.... Poland won 2 ECH titles with having almost all players playing in the national league.

  • yeah,you are right ,ı misunderstand you,ı forgotten you are german,but ı have nt said ^^The polish stars like Skowronska, Liktoras and Rosner arent in the league and still the level is very high^^
    ı said that your league levek is getting lower :thumbup: ,

  • Nastja is absolutely right. The lack of international stars helps to raise great Polish players and we will hear about them soon. Turkey NT won't beat Poland now and I think ever, because Polish NT is getting stronger too fast. After the rule of no more than 3 foreign players be accepted, Italian league will lose the first place for the 2nd or 3rd, Russia become 1st. But where Spanish and Turkish leagues will find theirselves?

  • I joined this discussion a little bit to late so I can't add anything new, cause I would repeat Nastjaand Lightmaster, who I totally agree with. As I said before I also consider Polish league stronger than Turkish - level is more equal, when Turkey has big stars in some teams, but the rest is weak. Nad yes, money is important, as Nastja said. There is a lot of money in Polish men league and we have stars there (not only Polish) and Polish national players even come back home from stronger leagues (Italy, Russia).

    The most important 3:
    POLAND-SZCZECIN-VOLLEYBALL


    5th place - Prediction Game - World League 2011 :D

  • I joined this discussion a little bit to late so I can't add anything new, cause I would repeat Nastjaand Lightmaster, who I totally agree with. As I said before I also consider Polish league stronger than Turkish - level is more equal, when Turkey has big stars in some teams, but the rest is weak. Nad yes, money is important, as Nastja said. There is a lot of money in Polish men league and we have stars there (not only Polish) and Polish national players even come back home from stronger leagues (Italy, Russia).

    Polish women league is one or two years behind Russian in its development. Last year Russia had finished returning all our stars back home. Also bought some inernational superstars - Zhukova, Tom, Liktoras. It won't be too long waiting for Skowronska&Co get back to Poland ;)

  • Nastja is absolutely right. The lack of international stars helps to raise great Polish players and we will hear about them soon. Turkey NT won't beat Poland now and I think ever, because Polish NT is getting stronger too fast. After the rule of no more than 3 foreign players be accepted, Italian league will lose the first place for the 2nd or 3rd, Russia become 1st. But where Spanish and Turkish leagues will find theirselves?


    Parity should not be confused with quality. While the Turkish league, might not have parity, I would put it above Poland and Spain in terms of quality. It is true that there is a big gap between the top and the bottom team but that does not make the league weaker.


    I disagree with you about Turkey not beating Poland now or never. You are bound to be surprised with the Turkish team in the coming months. With the return of Neslihan Darnel, and the addition of new stars like Eda Erdem, Naz Aydemir and Neriman Ozsoy to the team, they will be in a position to do a lot of damage.


    Turkey has had a limit on foreign players for a long time so I do not think the 3 player rule would affect us adversely. If anything, it might help get better quality players for some positions. Players who, otherwise, would not consider playing in Turkey.


    I also disagree with the lack of international stars helping raise local players. I think this hurts in the sense that it drops the level of competition the local players play at and they can not improve as much as they would playing against the good quality players. For countries who want to improve their local players, I am all for abandoning the limit on foreign players ;)

  • Parity is the sign of quality. Most countries have a couple of strong teams which can easily beat others. But we don't make references on them when talking about strong leagues. I prefer the language of numbers. Two Polish teams and one Turkish got to playoffs 12. Poland has at least FIVE equal teams in the championship. This is quite similar to Italy and Russia. The more equal teams can make a greater show for the supporters. The better show finally means faster progressing championship.


    It is always easier to buy good foreign player than to train your own one. Canceling the limit on foreigners is a good way to make national players sitting on a bench and watching how better players perform. They will definitely get better by doing this. It's very difficult to resist a temptation to full teams with foreign stars. And I respect Poland for the thorough way they've chosen. Barańska, Dziękiewicz, Godos, Skorupa, Kosmatka, Sadurek, Gajgał, Zenik. Enough stars? They all from national league!

  • Parity is the sign of quality. Most countries have a couple of strong teams which can easily beat others. But we don't make references on them when talking about strong leagues. I prefer the language of numbers. Two Polish teams and one Turkish got to playoffs 12. Poland has at least FIVE equal teams in the championship. This is quite similar to Italy and Russia. The more equal teams can make a greater show for the supporters. The better show finally means faster progressing championship.


    Parity is NOT always a sign of quality. To give an example, there's parity in Turkish Men's league - you never know who beats who but at the end of the day look at where we are. Nowhere. Take out Cuba and USA and there's parity in NORCECA (women's) but the teams that are left will barely crack top 10 (if they will) in Europe. That is NOT quality.


    I prefer the language of numbers too. Turkey also has 4 teams that can beat each other at the top of the league PLUS 2-3 other teams that can give the above four a hardtime, or even beat them, at times. I can go on and on but I don't want to get into a I am better than you contest here. I think our league deserves more credit than it's been given here.


    Italy is the best league in Europe, hands down right now. No question there. However, I don't think there's as much parity or quality in the Russian league yet. I think they need 1-2 more years before they are considered that way.


    Quote

    It is always easier to buy good foreign player than to train your own one. Canceling the limit on foreigners is a good way to make national players sitting on a bench and watching how better players perform. They will definitely get better by doing this. It's very difficult to resist a temptation to full teams with foreign stars. And I respect Poland for the thorough way they've chosen. Barańska, Dziękiewicz, Godos, Skorupa, Kosmatka, Sadurek, Gajgał, Zenik. Enough stars? They all from national league!


    Training is not the problem, getting them to play when they need to be playing instead is the problem. When you have a limit on no of imports, you end up with young local players riding the bench as opposed to being at a lower/ lesser team and playing. With no limits, clubs can easily use imports for that purpose and those players would get a chance to play. In order for the potential stars to reach their potential, these players need to play and compete with players who are better than they are. They will not get anywhere just sitting as subs on the bench and that is what will happen as long as you have the limit. For the most part, teams playing for the championship are the ones with best junior potential and these kids end up riding the bench since the clubs need 12 players on the roster. Also, competition is good for the local players who for the most part are locks on their league teams due to restriction on number of imports. I bet that they would work much harder if they knew there was someone as good or close good enough who could replace them on the bench.


    Look at Italy, how many of the NT players were matured in top A1 teams? Virutally none! Many of them are even A2 origin. They play and mature there and then move up. When a country is lacking players, it makes sense to relax this rule since it will pave the way for local players to succeed and once there is enough local talent at a certain level it makes sense to tighten again. It should be a continuous cycle.

  • You are foxy telling let's throw away two best teams and we get a parity between the rest weak ones :D So your example about Nordeca is not valid. I can agree with that parity is not ALWAYS a sign of quality. But it IS in our case. We are already too far from starting point of discussion and I also can go on, but not interested in that. There is another thread about 3 foreigners rule. Just give you two fast points. 1) Polish teams perform better in ECL. 2) There is a parity in Polish league, which means that other teams are very strong too. These points let me put Poland above Turkey in my top leagues list. That's all.


    I won't be talking here about Russia because I feel that I'm as subjective about Russia as you about Turkey. I'm just curious, if somebody not from Turkey can put Turkish league over Polish and insist on that with solid arguments? :whistle:

  • 1) Polish teams perform better in ECL. 2) There is a parity in Polish league, which means that other teams are very strong too. These points let me put Poland above Turkey in my top leagues list. That's all.


    This is the only year Poland has more teams in play-off round than Turkey. To me this is not enough to generalize that Polish teams perform better. Turkey's track record in champions league is better than that of Poland so that shoots your argument ;) And again there IS some parity in Turkish league as well even though it is not as widely spread as it could be for you or Italy.


    I think it is fair to leave it up to non-Turks and non-Poles to say which league is better so I will stop about that too ;)