Italian League 2011/2012

  • wow, really nice to hear those nice words about Vale from such a great coach like Caprara ! :)

  • real experts, but somehow all of you didn't see that Calderon is playing as right side this season instead outside, thats why she is not receiving, her reception is not her stronger and I'm not trying to say that it is. But when you buy player as Calderon you need to have players as Kilic who can receive or really good libero who will take over reception, that is what Rabita is doing this year with libero Popovic and Osmokrovic, and Mammadova is attacking only although she is playing on outside, but even if she don't receive alot balls per match you cannot tell that she is less beneficial than Havelkova.


    Serdar, check stats against FB from Calderon and tell me how many points she had and than go and check stats from Havelkova and see how many balls per match she receives (usually around 10, if is more her % in attack is around 30%).


    Its really funny that somehow you guys compare average player as Havelkova with top level player as Calderon!


    It is obviously for sure that you are not expert also since Calderon has already played most of match as outside hitter without reception as she did in Cuban NT :roll: and Selime/Seray or Natalia had played as receiving opp, however they have just changed their system for last a few matches 8)


    And the point you give example of Rabita makes things more clear for my argument. Although such great receiver as Osmokroviç and Popoviç cannot handle to cover a nonreceiving Mamadova (remember last Champions League match) And it does not work always to use a good receiving spiker and libero to cover a non receiving spiker (Eczacıbaşı is another example Esra and Gülden cannot always succeed to cover Francia against high class team) When you compare best teams all over Europe have more balanced OHs with both receiving and attacking such as Fenerbahce, Vakıfbank, Villa Cortese, Urbino, Bergamo, Cannes, Moscow and so forth :whistle:


    All in all, in order to achieve important titles, a team needs a spiker like Havelkova instead of Calderon who is only good attacker!


    BTW if you check latest stats of Busto you will see who is average player or not :roll:

  • You're right serdar. In last matches Havelkova shows great shape both in spike and reception.

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game


  • which match, from today??? Calderon is already known as best OH on the World, while Havelkova will still need to earn that, and time will show who was right.

  • Vaio, remember that Calderon doesn't receive :tzz:

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game

  • After Corteses -2.nd team in the standings - victory both home and away vs Moscow I hope the discussion about how weak the best italian teams is, has come to and end !

  • Calderon from 2005 until 2008 certainly was one of the most impressive attackers in the world, no doubt about that. I haven't seen enough matches of her in Galatasaray to judge her current performance, but the problem is that she is a player who needs to have a certain system built around her. She must attack from Position 4, but somebody else must receive instead of her. Speaking only about attack quality, she might be better than Havelkova, but judging as complete player (including serve, block, defensive ability, everything that is important for Volleyball), for me there are many OHs who are better than Calderon. Volleyball is not just attack! Cuban attackers in general have always been among the strongest worldwide, but look where the lack of general Volleyball skills has brought Cuba in the last 5 years...

  • OG 2008 Beijing - 4th place! 2010 they were 12 on World Championship, but same that Cuba was 7th in 2006 on World Championship. For countries like Cuba and USA, only one competition is important, Olympic games. I'm convinced that in London Cuba will show much better volleyball than its showing in last 3 years and that they will be in first 5 teams.


    I can understand that there are for you many OH better than Calderon, but thats just for you or some other volleyball fan who watches volleyball as hobby. If we will talk with some professionals about this it will be different opinion than yours.


    @ Anton, there are couple better and complete OH than Calderon but very few, maybe 2-3 and thats it. If they are better in reception for sure they are much weaker in attack, and in attack is not a lot players better than Calderon.

  • I can understand that there are for you many OH better than Calderon, but thats just for you or some other volleyball fan who watches volleyball as hobby. If we will talk with some professionals about this it will be different opinion than yours.

    For your information, I'm not just a "fan who watches volleyball as hobby", I'm also a player and a coach. Not on highest level, but I consider myself as quite knowledgeable about Volleyball. My opinion about the game is that every player needs to have allround skills. Look at Gamova, despite her height she moves well, she can defend balls well, she has good technique in all elements. I am not saying that Calderon is not a great player, as I said before she was for me one of the most impressive attackers in the last 10 years, but I simply prefer more allround players, and for me Havelkova (I'm getting tired of comparing Calderon and Havelkova all the time, but let's stick with it) represents a modern allround player with good skills in all elements and if I were to build a team I would go for OHs like her...
    Let's just say we have a different vision of what is most important in Volleyball...

  • This is more about what u evaluate than anything other IMO, so I think the discussion is pretty pointless to go forward with, isnt it? I mean, Vaio prefer pure attacking skills and Matt prefer all round skills when to rank a OH...nothing wrong with that and Im sure there is people who share the same opinions as u both !

  • of course we have different vision, but something is so easy to see it, like if you wan't to win race you will not drive regular car ( Havelkova) you will buy super car ( Calderon).
    I will always chose team as Rabita,they have one OH all-round as Osmokrovic and Mammadova similar (she is OH hitter who's job is not to receive but to score most points) as Calderon. With good Libero, this team is really doing great job, so I prefer always stronger attacker who can score even if reception is not perfect than one who can score only from perfect receptions.


    Havelkova in this moment is not on level from Del Core 2 years ago when she played in Bergamo and Del Core is much better player than Havelkova, so how is playing Del Core in Russia??? How did she play in Turkey last season??? Lets not forget that Calderon didn't play Volleyball for more than 2 years, due pregnancy and later because she was not part of Cuban national team. I will like to see on what level Havelkova or many other players will be after 2 years brake from any sport.


    Quote

    This is more about what u evaluate than anything other IMO, so I think the discussion is pretty pointless to go forward with, isnt it? I mean, Vaio prefer pure attacking skills and Matt prefer all round skills when to rank a OH...nothing wrong with that and Im sure there is people who share the same opinions as u both !


    here is not just point in what I prefer and what somebody else prefer, point is that this two player are not comparable although they are playing on same position.

  • I dont get the comparision between Del Core and Havelkova suddenly. Del Core in Bergamo wasnt that great in attack, defn. not better than Havelkova in Busto this season. Now Del Core isnt great in attack in Russia either, so I dont get your point...

  • well you forgot, she had similar stats in Bergamo as Havelkova in Busto. There is my point.


    Here are stats from Del core last 3 season in Italy :


    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…ne=2009&Atleta=DEL-ANT-80


    Here are stats from Havelkova last 3 seasons in Italy:


    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…ne=2011&Atleta=HAV-HEL-88


    As you can see it, she is not doing anything so much better than in previous seasons, but there are no big names in the league as before so average players as Havelkova are more in picture.

  • Nice words Anton1989, but honest guys It is useless to discuss with Vaio, he thinks his truth is the only one that exists....so...just ignore and lets end with this.

  • Nice words Anton1989, but honest guys It is useless to discuss with Vaio, he thinks his truth is the only one that exists....so...just ignore and lets end with this.


    Thx, but btw, Vaio is a female according to her profile ;)

  • Nice words Anton1989, but honest guys It is useless to discuss with Vaio, he thinks his truth is the only one that exists....so...just ignore and lets end with this.


    Of course that I think that my truth is only one that exist, you don't feel same. If you will not feel same you will just agree it with me, instead of that we have conversation.

  • Like Anton said, I don't get the comparison. Another factor is, Havelkova is 23 years old, Del Core 31 years. When Del Core was 23 she just entered ITA NT for the first time as far as I remember, and Havelkova is playing in Italy since she is 19 years old. So it's simply not fair to compare the recent performances of those two, you'd have to take Del Core's performances from when she was Havelkova's current age.
    And about the car race comparison...what you don't seem to understand is that Volleyball is a team sport and it involves many factors, not just what you compare here as speed. Maybe Calderon is the fastest car, but Volleyball is not a car race. And about Rabita, how many players like Osmokrovic are around in the world to make up for another OH who is not a good receiver?? If I had Osmokrovic as one OH I would also take Calderon over Havelkova probably, but as soon as you replace Osmokrovic with Kim Glass, Rabita's reception scheme will break down.

  • :down:

    which match, from today??? Calderon is already known as best OH on the World, while Havelkova will still need to earn that, and time will show who was right.


    come on, who claims that Calderon is known as best OH in the world :what: There are plenty of players before Calderon :mad: such as Logan Tom, Costagrande, Osmokroviç, Kim Yeon, Sokolova, Jacqueline Carvalho, Mari, Kosheleva or maybe Grün if we accept her as regular OH.


    Do you really know what the meaning of OH is? I want to make it clear again one more time: we are talking about best spectacular attacker, point is outside hitter which means a spiker who both attack and receive! 8)


    And as I said before your Rabita example is not a good one as you see the first match with Sopot and at the beginning of second match, Osmo and libero cannot succeed to cover Mama and they cannot play their game due to lack of stable reception :roll: Another example is Eczacıbaşı, Vakıfbank which has two all-around spiker beat twice Eczacıbaşı which has one receiver Esra and one attacker Mirca Francia :down: In my opinion Francia is also a fantastic attacker but I won't choose her neither in my team. Attacking skill is unique criteria for comparing Opp players not OHs ;) It is same with reception, to illustrate the point, Esra is an amazing receiver, sometimes better than most liberos, but I cannot claim that she is the best OH in the world, right? due to the fact that she lacks a lot at attacking skills.


    So your comparison really doesn't make any sense in all aspects :down: