NTs level 2006-2012

  • I remember that before the 2006 WCH I did a ranking of the teams divided in groups (every group had a colour from red to yellow, red being the strongest) based on their competitivness. The first group - medal contenders, second group - medium-high teams, etc. I didn't know that Serbia would surprise us that much.


    Group 1 (red) = 1.Brazil, 2.Italy, 3.China, 4.Russia, 5.Cuba
    Group 2 (orange) = 1.Japan, 2.USA, 3.Poland, 4.Netherlands, 5.Germany, 6.Turkey, 7.Azerbaijan
    Group 3 (light orange) = 1.Dominican Republic, 2.South Korea, 3.Serbia, 4.Bulgaria, 5.Croatia, 6.Kazakhstan, 7.Peru
    Group 4 (yellow) = 1.Chinese Taipei, 2.Puerto Rico, 3.Thailand, 4.Romania, 5.Czech Republic, 6.France, 7.Spain


    Now before the 2010 WCH I think the situation is more or less like this:


    Group 1 (red) = 1.Brazil, 2.Italy, 3.China, 4.USA, 5.Russia, 6.Cuba
    Group 2 (orange) = 1.Netherlands, 2.Germany, 3.Poland, 4.Serbia, 5.Turkey, 6.Japan
    Group 3 (light orange) = 1.Dominican Republic, 2.Thailand, 3.Azerbaijan, 4.South Korea, 5.Puerto Rico, 6.Czech Republic, 7.Kazakhstan, 8.Croatia, 9.Bulgaria
    Group 4 (yellow) = 1.Chinese Taipei, 2.Peru, 3.Spain, 4.Belgium, 5.Belarus, 6.Slovakia, 7.France, 8.Romania


    I think USA with the Olympic team is really strong and a serious gold medal contender, but Brazil is the real favourite.

  • i can agree with you in most cases. but i would swap Cuba and Holland-Dutch team is almost the same as 4 years ago and now they are more experience and IMO they are definitly in top 5 in the world right now. and Cuba is not that impressive after OG-they did not even qulify to WGP and their performance was very poor last year, and i would add Dominican republic to orange group :roll:


    Anyone can support a team that is winning - it takes no courage. But to
    stand behind a team to defend a team when it is down and really needs
    you, that takes a lot of courage.

  • The problem of Dutch team is that Kim Staelens won't be there and I don't think any of their other setters can replace her well enough. It will be interesting to see how they play without Kim.

  • i can agree with you in most cases. but i would swap Cuba and Holland-Dutch team is almost the same as 4 years ago and now they are more experience and IMO they are definitly in top 5 in the world right now. and Cuba is not that impressive after OG-they did not even qulify to WGP and their performance was very poor last year, and i would add Dominican republic to orange group :roll:

    The Cuban team is really imprevedible, so I gave them the benefit of doubt (as I gave it to Russia). But if they will continue with their performances I think they should be downgraded to the orange group with the Dutch team being stronger than them. But I don't think either that the Dutch team can be put in the red group together with Brazil, Italy, China ... At least as for now. Obviously teams improve and decrease. It will be interesting if teams will continue to rise their levels and which teams will emerge as new powers in the following years.
    And I agree that the Domenican Republic could be put in the orange group. They improved a lot and give me a good impression in the World Grand Champions Cup.


    However, I think that China, Russia and Cuba (the old powers) will rise again at the time of the World Championships. Those teams fare always better at the two most important competitions.

  • i also agree with you samba in most cases, brasil-italy-china is ok for the first group but i am not sure about USA-Russia-Cuba. especially the current roster is the important variable. for example in russia, if sokolova still would play in Nt, we can put them in first group nevertheless, i think they are not in different level with the teams in second group. it is the same for cuba, will ruiz, calderon(she was pregnant right :whistle: ) or ramirez would play or not? if those players would play we can say that they are still in the top level as team or else they are an ordinary team. for usa, their roster is still not known the players who make them olimpic medalist are veteran players(scott,bown,logan..) will they play again. or who will replace with them? if their veteran players do not play in Nt i think they would be even in third group.
    about netherlands, i am agree with their position. especially after staelen's pregnancy. and probably their veteran players such as huurman,visser leave Nt. stam plays in turkey in below average level, the same for flier... so they do not deserve for first group in my opinion :whistle:

  • in my opinion,Cuba doesnt deserve to be where it is represented....China,Russia,Usa,Serbia, are also in a decline.....and its worth thinking about what italy will do after their veteran players quit Nt such as Gioli,Piccinini,Maybe LO bianco...Brazil is still a favourite for all titles but they have lost Fofao(a real maestro) ,this is a handcap for them..etc

  • USA in the red group?are you making a joke?i don't know if you guys know that the USA nation team went to china to contest with one chinese place team.and then they lose 3-0 at the beginning of this month .althoughthe place team have kun feng , hao yang ,Suhong zhou three olympic champion.you know ,just one placeteam compare to one nation team .what level it is ?when i was watching the game i knew the result would be like this .because USA team played level really lower than opponent.even lower when compare to orange group such asnetherland germany and japan.


    yeah,they are olympic runner up .but the most important thing is what level are they on right now!

  • I totally angree with Canter. Cuba should be in red groub after OG they haven't don't much enough to be there. Of course Brazil-Italy-China worth to be there, I believe that they are going to be the strongest in the next years. Also Poland has started building a very good team lately and i would like to see them higher, German too. About USA i agree with idol-mari, i can say that i was disappointed after that game. I hope to see nice games between the teams.

  • idol-mari
    oh come on. have you seen the rooster of USA in that match?? really i didn't know a single name from this list. with Tom Berg Haneef Glass thay would be definitly a one of the favourite for medals during upcoming WCH


    Flyer
    yes Poland could be very dangerous with the team from ECH+ Skowronska and Podolec but of course we cannot play 2 consecutive season without injuries problems :down: Podolec definitly won't play this year and Baranska probably will be missing as well ( she need surgery after club season and than at least 3 months of recovery) so we are basicly left with one international level receiver(Jagielo) and probably some heavy hitter without reception( i'm voting for Konieczna). Skowronska would have to have amazing form to win matches alone cus i'm predicting our reception will be a nightmare this season (but still, i hope Baranska will be fine and will be able to help us during WCH)


    Anyone can support a team that is winning - it takes no courage. But to
    stand behind a team to defend a team when it is down and really needs
    you, that takes a lot of courage.

    Edited once, last by mateo ().

  • Scott, Bown, Berg, Ah Mow, Tom, Haneef, Glass, Sykora and Davis didn't announce any retirement. I'm sure they will play at WCH, maybe just Scott won't. With such a roster they deserve to be in the red group and I'm sure they are medal contenders. USA team is always so underrated. Also at the Olympics nobody gave any cents to them and they won the silver.


    About Cuba, remember that just one year and a half has passed after the Olympics. They didn't have a brilliant 2009, but neither some other strong teams had it. In my opinion it is too early to downgrade such a great team with a very strong tradition. However I agree that if this year they will continue on that path they won't be counted among strong teams anymore. This has already happened to Cuba in the past. They were not so good in odd years, but surprised everybody in even years, when the competition really counted (Worlds and Olympics). Still we don't know if Calderon, Ramirez, Ruiz and others will return. There are also some very promising young players (Silie and the other one). So I think it is really to early to tell.

  • they didn't announce any retirement .there is no doubt that they probably would play this tournament .the Olympic members of USA can develop the team level .you say they're really strong .but as our Mari and Sheilla said on the TV before
    '' We weren’t even expecting them to be in the final… (OG)''
    ''Yeah, we were expecting China, Cuba, Russia''
    i think no one could be more clear than the players know about the level of other teams ,right?so that's why Mari and Sheilla said like this .and we also didn't expect it. when we win this kind of championship, it’s evolved for many circumstances… another team could have been the champion for lucky, or for a different type of opponents…USA could qualify the final in OG. one important thing was the Cuba team played really really bad in the semi final . USA have Olympic members return ,you are sure they are medal contenders.you put them in the red group .i think you should put Netherlands in red group too .Netherlands was the champion of grand prix 2007.they didn't lost any games in the final round including with brazil , china and Russia .the players who deserve the grand prix 2007 also didn't announce retirement . also Netherlands is medal contenders for sure. why don't you put them in red group ??that's mean Netherlands have the same level with brazil ,china and Russia?of coz not
    i'm pretty sure that if US wasn't OG runner up you wouldn't put US in red group ,just simply is based on they are runner up in OG.


    level is just level!

  • i'm pretty sure that if US wasn't OG runner up you wouldn't put US in red group ,just simply is based on they are runner up in OG.

    but you can say that about every single team-if Serbia wasn't bronze medalist and runner up of ECH they would probably land in level below group, or if Russia wasn't world champ they would be in the orange group. but US is runner up of OG and they fully deserve this medal-they were in very tough group in QF they menage to defeat one of the clear favourite for final-Italy, year before they end up 3rd in World Cup so it's not only OG.


    Anyone can support a team that is winning - it takes no courage. But to
    stand behind a team to defend a team when it is down and really needs
    you, that takes a lot of courage.

  • Scott, Bown, Berg, Ah Mow, Tom, Haneef, Glass, Sykora and Davis


    scott and haneef was pregnant and i don t know whether they gave a birth yet, but i do not expect from them a great turn back till WCH especially from scott, she is almost 40 and this is really old year for a MB. moreover, i do not any information about ah mow is still playing or not. do you know where is she playing nowadays. i guess she also gave up volleyball.
    so in the best optimistic case; berg,tom,glass and davis accept to play, still USA is in orange group IMO.
    i think we have to wait to make that categorization till the rosters are announced. :whistle:

  • they didn't announce any retirement .there is no doubt that they probably would play this tournament .the Olympic members of USA can develop the team level .you say they're really strong .but as our Mari and Sheilla said on the TV before
    '' We weren’t even expecting them to be in the final… (OG)''
    ''Yeah, we were expecting China, Cuba, Russia''
    i think no one could be more clear than the players know about the level of other teams ,right?so that's why Mari and Sheilla said like this .and we also didn't expect it. when we win this kind of championship, it’s evolved for many circumstances… another team could have been the champion for lucky, or for a different type of opponents…USA could qualify the final in OG. one important thing was the Cuba team played really really bad in the semi final . USA have Olympic members return ,you are sure they are medal contenders.you put them in the red group .i think you should put Netherlands in red group too .Netherlands was the champion of grand prix 2007.they didn't lost any games in the final round including with brazil , china and Russia .the players who deserve the grand prix 2007 also didn't announce retirement . also Netherlands is medal contenders for sure. why don't you put them in red group ??that's mean Netherlands have the same level with brazil ,china and Russia?of coz not
    i'm pretty sure that if US wasn't OG runner up you wouldn't put US in red group ,just simply is based on they are runner up in OG.


    level is just level!

    If you say players knows more than us than you can't miss Fofao and Fabi. Before OG Fofao said she believed USA could come strong and she even credited Wiloughby as a player to watch. Fabi also said something like this even replying Sheilla telling her "USA is not a dark horse. They will play a gold medal game because they deserve". Our coach Zé Roberto said before OG he believed USA would be in the top group. As for Netherlands they are sure a good team and won the GP 2007 but they didn't even manage to qualify for the OG some months later. I like the Netherlands team but I believe they are weak strugling with their pressure and emotions to win a major game just like Brazil always did before OG. Don't get me wrong. Netherlands deserve their 2007 GP title but GP is not the same as OG or WC

  • [/quote]but you can say that about every single team-if Serbia wasn't bronze medalist and runner up of ECH they would probably land in level below group, or if Russia wasn't world champ they would be in the orange group. but US is runner up of OG and they fully deserve this medal-they were in very tough group in QF they menage to defeat one of the clear favourite for final-Italy, year before they end up 3rd in World Cup so it's not only OG.[/quote]


    i am totally understand what you mean.but you have to know , the top team can qualify medalist not mean the team who qualify the medalist must be the top team .do you understand?moreover,actually what i said before just want to explain the medal not fully mean what level are the teams on.

  • In fact I didn't put USA in first group because of the medal, I put them there because I think they are a strong team. Berg is a very skilled setter, Tom is one of the best OH of the World, Scott and Bown are very good MB and Sykora and Davis are strong liberos. Plus Lang Ping made possible a very effective organization of team play.
    I also cannot put Netherlands in first group just because they won the WGP.


    But I want to make clear that everybody can make his/her own list of teams level. In fact I would really appreciate to share your opinions. :)

  • i agree with samba player except for:


    1) i think China is not in red group any more. The new players have so many problems and i am pretty sure that veterans won't be back to NT again. (only ZhouSuhong has possibility to be back, but she needs to take care of her husband so i think the chance is little too.) If you guys followed some matches in the Chinese League, you will find that we really can't see the future. and unlike USA we can still hope for great players to come back from oversea leagues, almost all players play in Chinese League, the coach doesn't have many choices in the players' selection at all.



    2) i think Dominican Republic should be in orange group too as they are improving these years. They have young and talented players but they need to improve their stability and reduce errors.



    another point: should be count the matter of pool composition of WCH when ranking the NTs level?


    as we all know there will be probably 6 teams(BRA, ITA, NED, USA, CUB, GER) or more to fight for 2 semi-final spots in pool B+C second round. and on the other hand in pool A+D there will be much easier to qualify for semi-final.


    if this factor should be counted, then i definitely will put China back to red group again as they have a better draw.




    @ mateo


    i just heard the news of Baranska and it is really a big shock for me that she probably can't play in WCH. (well, Baranska shocked me these days not only because of her injury, sorry for :offtopic: :D ) I know players in oversea leagues and those in the 3 teams participated in Champions'League only, don't have much knowledge about the other players in Polish league. Any promising OHs among the young players? If use Jagielo+some heavy hitter without reception as OHs will be a disaster for Poland's reception, then the setter will push every ball to Kasia and then the MBs will be totally hidden ;(

  • Group 1 (red) = 1.Brazil, 2.Italy, 3.China, 4.USA, 5.Russia, 6.Cuba
    Group 2 (orange) = 1.Netherlands, 2.Germany, 3.Poland, 4.Serbia, 5.Turkey, 6.Japan
    Group 3 (light orange) = 1.Dominican Republic, 2.Thailand, 3.Azerbaijan, 4.South Korea, 5.Puerto Rico, 6.Czech Republic, 7.Kazakhstan, 8.Croatia, 9.Bulgaria
    Group 4 (yellow) = 1.Chinese Taipei, 2.Peru, 3.Spain, 4.Belgium, 5.Belarus, 6.Slovakia, 7.France, 8.Romania

    Hmm, what will happen of this ranking? After the WCH we will make a new one all together! You can start the disscussion right now if you want. So share your opinions and make statements.

  • Group 1 (red) = 1.Brazil, 2.USA, 3.Russia, 4.Italy, 5.China, 6.Japan
    Group 2 (orange) = 1.Turkey, 2. Serbia, 3. Germany, 4.Netherlands, 5. South Korea 6.Poland
    Group 3 (light orange) = 1.Cuba, 2.Thailand, 3.Czeh Republic, 4.Peru, 4.Crotia, 6.Dominican Republic,
    Group 4 (yellow) = 1.Kazakhstan, 2.Puerto Rico, 3.Canada, 4.Azerbaijan 5.Bulgaria, 6.France

  • USA in the red group?are you making a joke?i don't know if you guys know that the USA nation team went to china to contest with one chinese place team.and then they lose 3-0 at the beginning of this month .althoughthe place team have kun feng , hao yang ,Suhong zhou three olympic champion.you know ,just one placeteam compare to one nation team .what level it is ?when i was watching the game i knew the result would be like this .because USA team played level really lower than opponent.even lower when compare to orange group such asnetherland germany and japan.


    yeah,they are olympic runner up .but the most important thing is what level are they on right now!

    :P Yeah team USA is really weak.