Olympic Games - London 2012 Women (qualification process)

    Quote

    If the Japanese team the fourth was not deliberately give up,and Serbia No.2 No.16 is as strong as the previous two years,I will agree with you.lack niklic,and No.2 step backward.(Recall that when she just came back from Jenny Lang‘s club and training system how powerful she became) it is clear that all backwards, all progress became history after a no pressure Japan League.Do Serbia now have the kind of capital despise Thailand?


    . It's possible Japan gave up, they were up 2:1 not 2:0, their win was not guaranteed. But you're missing the point, Japan needed only one point to clinch the spot for the olympics, the rest is not relevant. and yes Serbia is a better team than thailand. European champions and so on, playing without the top 3 OHs. Is that even a serious question?



    Thailand didn't even need a top 3 actually, only need top 4 and managed 5th. in another words see you in 2016.

    I guess people are being unfair by saying the japenese girls lost on purpose.


    You can't prove that. I mean, they did a bunch of mistakes, but at the same time, you got your spot, you may don't care after that.


    I think their priority are stay healthy for the OG and get the olympic spot, not help Thailand out. :whistle:

    Quote from Bruna.

    I guess people are being unfair by saying the japenese girls lost on purpose.


    You can't prove that. I mean, they did a bunch of mistakes, but at the same time, you got your spot, you may don't care after that.


    I think their priority are stay healthy for the OG and get the olympic spot, not help Thailand out. :whistle:

    :thumbsup: :drink:

    Quote from Zmanvolleyball


    . It's possible Japan gave up, they were up 2:1 not 2:0, their win was not guaranteed. But you're missing the point, Japan needed only one point to clinch the spot for the olympics, the rest is not relevant. and yes Serbia is a better team than thailand. European champions and so on, playing without the top 3 OHs. Is that even a serious question? Oh yes they are better than weaker teams but against big teams like Italy or Brazil? :hit: :sos:



    Thailand didn't even need a top 3 actually, only need top 4 and managed 5th. in another words see you in 2016.

    Quote from Bruna.

    I guess people are being unfair by saying the japenese girls lost on purpose.


    You can't prove that. I mean, they did a bunch of mistakes, but at the same time, you got your spot, you may don't care after that.


    I think their priority are stay healthy for the OG and get the olympic spot, not help Thailand out. :whistle:

    Everyone is free how to comment that game. If you look at older messages in the previous pages you can see tons of scenarios about this game. :D Apparently most of them accept that wasn't their own style what Japan did against Serbia.

    Quote from Zmanvolleyball

    This thread is getting pathetic.. Thia girls DO NOT deserve to be there.. they lost 3 of their 7 matches... they did not take care of business.. they are not as good as any of the teams ahead of them in rankings or performance..



    There was no fix, once Japan won that one point it was over.. There was no incentive for them to go out here and spill their guts out, if thailand wanted to play in the olympics they should have won one more match.. It's really that simple..


    It is not simple at all! Of course if you didn't decided to think simple way on purpose :roll: We saw plenty of fixed match in volleyball history but Japan-Serbia match was the amateur one :down: Moreover, it is not logical to say that they just want to be healthy before OG. If they just change their players, it would be reason. But the way they did was worse. Even though I love Japan's volleyball style and their joy in the game, after cronyism by FIVB and this fixed match case, I have no longer symphaty to them :down:

    Quote from serdar

    It is not simple at all! Of course if you didn't decided to think simple way on purpose :roll: We saw plenty of fixed match in volleyball history but Japan-Serbia match was the amateur one :down: Moreover, it is not logical to say that they just want to be healthy before OG. If they just change their players, it would be reason. But the way they did was worse. Even though I love Japan's volleyball style and their joy in the game, after cronyism by FIVB and this fixed match case, I have no longer symphaty to them :down:


    That is the same with me :thumbdown: I lost my sympathy for both teams, especially Japan.. I never expected such a behaviour from them.. I am really sad for Thai girls :S They have been working so hard for Olympic dream but then 2 two team come and ....(You all can expect what happened before the match:thumbdown: )

    even though I believe it was not a fair match, I think the teams that deserved to qualify, qualified.Serbia would have still finished 4th even though they had lost to Japan, didn't you all critisize this rule that giving more chance to Asian teams before the tournament :lol: It's good top 4 qualified for olympics instead of top 3 + best asian, but I don't like the way the things happened too.

    Quote from vyz

    even though I believe it was not a fair match, I think the teams that deserved to qualify, qualified.Serbia would have still finished 4th even though they had lost to Japan, didn't you all critisize this rule that giving more chance to Asian teams before the tournament :lol: It's good top 4 qualified for olympics instead of top 3 + best asian, but I don't like the way the things happened too.


    Problem is not who qualified or not, problem is having this kind of things in volleyball :down:

    That's what people do on the internet. They make judgements and unfair comments without having to justify their reasoning. No one who has said they think the match was fixed can point to any evidence.

    Quote from TheUSAFAN

    That's what people do on the internet. They make judgements and unfair comments without having to justify their reasoning. No one who has said they think the match was fixed can point to any evidence.

    Well, of course nobody can prove it, but there are definitely some hints:
    - 3:2 for Serbia was the only of the six possible results that got both teams into OG, the theoretical chance for that result was 17%
    - Japan was leading 2:1 and 19:16, so the argument that they slowed down once they won 2 sets is just not true
    - after 19:16, Japan had two serve errors late in 4th set plus 4 in 5th set. That makes 6 serve errors in 1,5 sets when they had only 9 in the first 3,5 sets. It's true that those were not "bad" serve errors, but still, they were errors
    - in addition to that, Japan let two serves of Malesevic drop when they were still leading late in 4th set. Japan is one of the best receiving and defending team in the world and Malesevic's serves were neither bombs nor especially well placed (it is normal to serve between two players, Sano and Saori usually can handle that easily)
    - in 5th set, Serbia blocked exceptionally well, a bit too much for my taste...
    - during 3rd set, I wrote in this thread about Serbia's play: Ognjenovic was using MBs all the time in the phase when Japan went 10 points ahead even though Takeshita was at the net and the OHs could easily have scored against her while the MBs got softblocked all the time and Japan got the counterattacks. While watching I could hardly believe how Ognjenovic could be so insistent on an obviously wrong tactics, but with hindsight, this also looks suspicious.


    Looking at those facts isolated, everything of it can happen. But all of it together are just some coincidences too much for me. All of it can happen, maybe it simply happened, maybe the teams wanted it to happen, probably nobody will ever know...


    The argument of some people that Japan would have taken their stars out after winning 2 sets to lose on purpose is totally pointless, if they had done that they could as well have written "we want to lose 2:3" on their foreheads. If there was any manipulation, it had to be done subtly so that nobody can prove it definitely...

    I see none of you really played volleyball professionally...


    For Japan after getting the points they needed the rest was not a matter, they played the rest of the match but it is different focus when the result does not really count anymore (for them). Players or even the coach does not make tactic like: look girls we have to fight now to win so we help Thailand to qualify/ or ok now let's loose the match so we help Serbia for Olympic spot...


    Honestly for Japan it would have been much better if Thailand would qualify because there is a bigger chance they get an easier match on the Olympics. Serbia will be a tough opponent when the now injured players will hopefully be be able to play in London.

    Born for Volleyball, lives from Volleyball, dies with Volleyball.


    "When somebody is just not an equal partner to have a conversation with, the best you can do is to ignore him." Done!

    The easiest way to end this debate is to say this, FIVB change the regulations.


    1. Make an Asia only qualifying tournament, it matches with the other confederations.
    2. Make the remaining qualifiers similar to the men's (4 teams in 1 venue, only winning team advances)
    3. Last day matches must take place at the same time in two different venues (may not be possible)
    4. Change the tie-breaking ranking system to the following


    3 teams or more tied
    1. Points won (3,2,1,0) in matches between the teams
    2. Matches won
    3. Sets ratio
    4. Points ratio


    2 teams tied
    1. Head-to-head match result


    We do not have ties between two teams in a match, there is always a winner.


    In this case, Japan would have already beaten Thailand 3-0 as the tie-breaker.

    Quote from aya

    :drink: :thumbsup:


    That is the other thing. As a player and as a team you should never let other team's match results decide your "future"=qualification. And to get the quota was not depending just on that particular match they could have nicked at least one more point against Japan/Korea/Russia.



    Even though I can feel with them, as it is really hard to accept you did not qualify because of set ratio...when you were so close.

    Born for Volleyball, lives from Volleyball, dies with Volleyball.


    "When somebody is just not an equal partner to have a conversation with, the best you can do is to ignore him." Done!

    And that's the smartest solution 8)

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game

    here's what i think about the topic :sleeping:

    Quote from TheUSAFAN

    That's what people do on the internet. They make judgements and unfair comments without having to justify their reasoning. No one who has said they think the match was fixed can point to any evidence.

    :drink: :thumbsup:

    Quote from volleystella

    I see none of you really played volleyball professionally...


    For Japan after getting the points they needed the rest was not a matter, they played the rest of the match but it is different focus when the result does not really count anymore (for them). Players or even the coach does not make tactic like: look girls we have to fight now to win so we help Thailand to qualify/ or ok now let's loose the match so we help Serbia for Olympic spot...


    Honestly for Japan it would have been much better if Thailand would qualify because there is a bigger chance they get an easier match on the Olympics. Serbia will be a tough opponent when the now injured players will hopefully be be able to play in London.

    :drink: :thumbsup: