Italian League 2011/2012

    Quote from Matthias

    Well, for me Togut is the only world class Opp Italy ever had. Aguero too of course, but being naturalized, it's a different story. Centoni and Ortolani are good players, but neither of them is close to Togut when she was in best shape.


    If we are talking about best shapes, Ortolani was more than world class when she got MVP and championship in CL with Bergamo. :roll:


    Also Centoni is a very high level player, she is very consistent player in Cannes and playing a good level for such a long time. The only reason she is too underestimated is that she is not playing in NT :down:


    Togut was ver good at world championship 2002 in Germany. but after that, in Jesi, she was just a good player for me. :whistle:

    Elisa Togut was not just a good player after WCH 2002, she was one of the very best if u trust the stats. She is the 4th best scorer of all time in Serie A.


    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…004&Giornata=0&Squadra=AN
    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…006&Giornata=0&Squadra=AN


    Just a example, in the link above, u can see her stats from 2004/2005 and 2006/2007 seasons, 46-47% effectivity in attack and 17-20p/game, pretty more than average, isnt it? The players today in Serie A can only dream about that kind of numbers, and the level was still much higher then!

    Quote from Anton1989

    Elisa Togut was not just a good player after WCH 2002, she was one of the very best if u trust the stats. She is the 4th best scorer of all time in Serie A.


    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…004&Giornata=0&Squadra=AN
    http://www.legavolleyfemminile…006&Giornata=0&Squadra=AN


    Just a example, in the link above, u can see her stats from 2004/2005 and 2006/2007 seasons, 46-47% effectivity in attack and 17-20p/game, pretty more than average, isnt it? The players today in Serie A can only dream about that kind of numbers, and the level was still much higher then!


    Generally stats don't worth anything for me, especially about being best scorer etc. (for example being best scorer of all time in Serie A is totally about how many year a player played in Serie A. It is not about quality, only quantity :roll: )


    For attack effectivity, when you make an average of her stats from 2003-2004 to current, she has stats around %41 which is very similar with Ortolani's stats ;) And Serena also played very scorer with %40-41 attacking percentage which is not bad. Since we don't have that match data about Centoni, it is hard to compare but for me playing as a starter in a club which participating CL every year and getting good result is a good indicator for an Opp's quality :whistle:


    Anyway Ortolani and Centoni are not my favourite Opp at all. However saying that Togut was the only real Opp is really unfair X(

    Quote from serdar

    For attack effectivity, when you make an average of her stats from 2003-2004 to current, she has stats around %41 which is very similar with Ortolani's stats ;)


    What can I say? Your statement is totally wrong and not even worth to comment with nothing but stats that proves it. Lets make a comparision:


    Effectivity in attack:


    Elisa Togut 2003/2004-present: 43,1% effectivity (42.5 %/carrer)
    Serena Ortolani (carrer): 38,6% effectivity


    Best seasons:


    Elisa Togut 1. 47,6% effect. (2006/2007) --- 2) 45,7% effect. (2004/2005)
    Serena Ortolani 1. 40,2% effect. (2008/2009) --- 2) 40.1% effect. (2007/2008 )


    Average/game (carrer)


    Elisa Togut: 15,5p/game
    Serena Ortolani: 10.0p/game


    Your still not convinced?


    Source: http://www.legavolleyfemminile…003&AnnoFine=2011&Ruolo=5

    Quote from serdar

    I know I will probably be regretful about this question but which kind of stupid reasoning you have in order to call Aguero, Centoni and Ortolani as 'fake' ones. :what:


    As far as I know Togut even didn't play in Turkish League though :roll:


    i didnt consider Agüero Italian.IMO,theres been good periods for her but in all,Ortolani is a medicre opp.well, i like Chentoni.Yes Chentoni may also be considered one of the best for Italy...
    i think i had proved i was also familiar with the players not playing in Turkey.. :P

    Please,look WCH02 match...Togut was unstoppable!! :super: Yes,she is the best OPP Italy has ever had untill now!!

    Totally Agree!!! :thumbsup: I would add that Togut, besides being the best Italian Opp ever, is also the best spiker Italy has ever had.
    Centoni is also a good Opp, but there's no comparison with Togut. Only Valentina Diouf has got the physical skills to become like Togut and I put many hopes in her.
    Diouf's power and C.Bosetti's class are the future of Italian volleyball :super: :cup:

    No, Partenio can't be compared to Caterina Bosetti.
    Anyway she is a quite promising OH but last year she was very disappointing...she spent most of the season on the bench and the few times she played she didn't prove any progress.. so after this poor season she hasn't even been called to the NT by Barbolini.
    I think she should to go to a less ambitious team than Modena in order to play more and improve. She showed some very good things at Junior levels(Gold medal and Best spiker award at 2008 Junior ECH) so expectations from her are quite high in Italy, even though she'll never be a phenomenon like Caterina. :roll:

    Caterina > Partenio


    Also Ravetta is very strong, next year she will play in Italy again, she was in NT.
    Italian NT miss a very strong opposite.

    It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
    If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.


    Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.



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    What can I say? Not even worth to comment with nothing but a better calculator or maybe glasses :roll:


    If you look at this link http://www.legavolleyfemminile…ne=2011&Atleta=TOG-ELI-78


    You will see that Elisa Togut 2003/2004-present: is 41,8 not 43,1% as you said. You can make the calculation by dividing 3059 to 7315 8) Moreover as efficiency it is 0.34. However surprisingly you get correct percent for Ortolani. Well done! :lol: Thus, as I said before they have similar percentage :whistle:


    For best season stats, try to compare their performance in the same age since Ortolani was born in 1987 whereas Togut in 1978. So when Serena was 21 she played with 40,2% attack rate, Togut got 40,5% As you see, not big gap, right?


    Average/game is very very misleading stats since you don't know how many set each of them have played :down: Look at Average/set


    Elisa Togut: 3,9 (3059 points for 767 sets)
    Serena Ortolani: 2,9 (1967 points for 670 sets)


    I hope you realize that how misleading your numbers are :down:


    Lastly for best season stats:


    Togut gets her best season stats when she was 28, which we don't know how much Ortolani will get :whistle:


    All in all, as I said before, stats generally does not indicate well to player's real performance. I just wrote this stats since you insist and use misleading/wrong ones. The only point I am oppose to is that sayin Togut is only 'real' Opp Italy had since Ortolani and Centoni are also very good Opps. Furthermore, I don't believe that Togut is that much exceptionally performed after her great tournament 2002. :whistle:


    Good luck with your stats Anton and be more careful with your next calculations ;)

    Quote from Toguttt

    Totally Agree!!! :thumbsup: I would add that Togut, besides being the best Italian Opp ever, is also the best spiker Italy has ever had.
    Centoni is also a good Opp, but there's no comparison with Togut. Only Valentina Diouf has got the physical skills to become like Togut and I put many hopes in her.
    Diouf's power and C.Bosetti's class are the future of Italian volleyball :super: :cup:


    I agree with you, also about Partenio...I hope also that Scarabelli comes back as strong as she was before the injuries!!! :box: :super:

    Quote from serdar

    You will see that Elisa Togut 2003/2004-present: is 41,8 not 43,1% as you said. You can make the calculation by dividing 3059 to 7315 8) Moreover as efficiency it is 0.34. However surprisingly you get correct percent for Ortolani. Well done! :lol: Thus, as I said before they have similar percentage :whistle:


    Please, your just fooling yourself, the stats I wrote is right, and she has 43,1% in her matches in Serie A, but with her matches in Serie B after maternity last years, the average number drops at the page u showed.

    Quote from serdar

    For best season stats, try to compare their performance in the same age since Ortolani was born in 1987 whereas Togut in 1978. So when Serena was 21 she played with 40,2% attack rate, Togut got 40,5% As you see, not big gap, right?
    ;)


    Yeah ofc it makes sense to compare a 25 year old player with a 34 year old player when they was 21, how could I forget? Btw, now Serena is 25 and played with 34,2% in attack while Togut in the same age had 42,2%. But if you say 21 years old is more relevant age to compare I will trust you.

    The problem that I have with Ortolani is that she never made any significant improvement over the years. She was a great talent when she was 19-20 years, and she plays some good matches every once in a while (for example she really deserved MVP in CL final when she got it), but for me she is not a top class player, she definitely lacks consistency for that.


    And Centoni...I think her performance is quite overrated to be honest. I've watched many matches of Cannes this season and I don't remember even one where Centoni showed an outstanding performance. In the season before I thought she was better, but in this season I didn't understand why people would want her back in NT, she is no better than Ortolani right now...

    Maybe some italian friend could help me.. :)


    Is it true that the younger of Bosetti sisters was italian champion under-14?


    If so, what a family..hehehe


    imagine someday they 3 in NT..hehehe quite possible for the age diference at elast.

    Ortolani to me is an eternal promise..


    so much potential in her,but now she's still young,but she has managed lots of international experience and everyone has expected much more by her..


    yes it's true...here is the article! anyway I never saw her playing (too young really)!!
    http://www.volleyorago.org/sit…us?ID_COUNT=under_14&LN=1