2012 CEV Junior Volleyball European Championship

    Quote from muse

    The truth is that young players from Serbia, Russia, Poland have more chances for better volleyball future than Belgian, Turkish, for which winning junior ECH can be the last success in their lifes. We must admit that. And I'm not saying it because I'm angry we didn't qualify into the semifinal but that's how it looks like.


    Can you explain why?
    I think Belgium and Turkey are countries where volleyball is develloping very fast and results in senior NT will soon come...
    Morever Belgian and turkish young players have height and good basic technique so everything to become the best...what does polish,serbs or russians have to become better in the future?

    Quote from Thorn


    Can you explain why?
    I think Belgium and Turkey are countries where volleyball is develloping very fast and results in senior NT will soon come...
    Morever Belgian and turkish young players have height and good basic technique so everything to become the best...what does polish,serbs or russians have to become better in the future?

    Better leagues, better federations, better senior national teams, popularity of volleyball in each country, money. I didn't want to say it must be like most of this young and very nice Belgian players will disappear. But this is very possible. And maybe just one, two players can grow up into the volleyball stars (I wish you to have more such a personalities in your volleyball).
    And I'm saying it after what I see in volleyball world.

    Quote from muse

    Better leagues, better federations, better senior national teams, popularity of volleyball in each country, money. I didn't want to say it must be like most of this young and very nice Belgian players will disappear. But this is very possible. And maybe just one, two players can grow up into the volleyball stars (I wish you to have more such a personalities in your volleyball).
    And I'm saying it after what I see in volleyball world.

    I won't talk about turkish case because I don't know it very well but concerning Belgium I can say this:
    I think you don't know belgian league and federation very well...our league is definitely stronger than the serbain one, we are ranked 5th ( just after Poland and with Greece ahead which is way way overrated) in europe if I remember well..Our federation as I said earlier works on a project called topvolley to form more yougers and later get a place in the top of the world or at least in europe.I think these players won't disappear don't be so pessimistic they are extremly talented and hard workers, they will soon take place in the best teams of our country (some are already playing for Roeselare or Lennik) and then if they continue to devellop so quick they will take a place in our senior NT or go playing in better foreign leagues like italian...
    See where are Van Den Dries,Van Walle,Deroo,Verhees,Van de Voorde,Klinkenberg etc...They all play in great teams and in our NT and they are so young...This generation will follow their steps I'm sure ;-)

    Quote from Thorn

    See where are Van Den Dries,Van Walle,Deroo,Verhees,Van de Voorde,Klinkenberg etc...They all play in great teams and in our NT and they are so young...This generation will follow their steps I'm sure ;-)


    They are all very good players, but I don't see new Wijsmans coming. You need 1-2 players of his scale to be competative for medals with MEN NT

    Quote from Thorn

    I won't talk about turkish case because I don't know it very well but concerning Belgium I can say this:
    I think you don't know belgian league and federation very well...our league is definitely stronger than the serbain one, we are ranked 5th ( just after Poland and with Greece ahead which is way way overrated) in europe if I remember well..Our federation as I said earlier works on a project called topvolley to form more yougers and later get a place in the top of the world or at least in europe.I think these players won't disappear don't be so pessimistic they are extremly talented and hard workers, they will soon take place in the best teams of our country (some are already playing for Roeselare or Lennik) and then if they continue to devellop so quick they will take a place in our senior NT or go playing in better foreign leagues like italian...
    See where are Van Den Dries,Van Walle,Deroo,Verhees,Van de Voorde,Klinkenberg etc...They all play in great teams and in our NT and they are so young...This generation will follow their steps I'm sure ;-)


    agree with your point of view..the same for Turkish volleyball... Turkish league is not that bad...maybe comes after Italian,Russian,Polish leagues...if TVF manages to adapt these young players to the NT very well and makes them get some experiences at the highets level like WL,then with this young players Turkish volleyball could improve faster in the near future.

    Quote from muse

    Better leagues, better federations, better senior national teams, popularity of volleyball in each country, money. I didn't want to say it must be like most of this young and very nice Belgian players will disappear. But this is very possible. And maybe just one, two players can grow up into the volleyball stars (I wish you to have more such a personalities in your volleyball).
    And I'm saying it after what I see in volleyball world.


    Actually I am curious if it is the right time to talk about it. Of course you can say your opinion but I think these things should be discussed after the tournament.


    I think Belgian and Turkish players have more chance to show their skills in senior Nt. For example Poland, Italy and Russia have already a top senior NTs and players so that these young boys have a little chance to play or even be a part of 12 in senior NT. On the other hand I am sure that 4-5(Burak Baturalp Güngör, Koray Şahin, Uğur Güneş, Murat Yenipazar) players will be part of Turkish NT in coming years and maybe some of them will play in starting six. I don't know much about Belgian volleyball but it might be the same case as well.

    Quote from kadir_8

    Actually I am curious if it is the right time to talk about it. Of course you can say your opinion but I think these things should be discussed after the tournament.


    I think Belgian and Turkish players have more chance to show their skills in senior Nt. For example Poland, Italy and Russia have already a top senior NTs and players so that these young boys have a little chance to play or even be a part of 12 in senior NT. On the other hand I am sure that 4-5(Burak Baturalp Güngör, Koray Şahin, Uğur Güneş, Murat Yenipazar) players will be part of Turkish NT in coming years and maybe some of them will play in starting six. I don't know much about Belgian volleyball but it might be the same case as well.


    It's a complicated matter, just as complicated as to ask "Why is this national team more successful than the other one?" No one denies the work that is done in Turkey and Belgium to develop young players, in fact, I, among many others, respect them for that. The point that was made previously, by muse, I think, is that their international career somehow "vaporizes" when they enter the men's level. Yes, Turkey will probably take these 4-5 or 6 players straight in the NT in a few years, so will Belgium, but so did Poland (most recent example - Winiarski, Kurek, Wlazly and so on), Bulgaria, etc. The junior level is the most natural way for a player to become ready for the professional game, but it's not always the only way. Just take, for example, how many players became NT members after the age of, let's say, 24-25, called up by some clever coach even if these players were never part of a Junior or Youth NT. Maybe it's historical that the best volleyball nations use a wider pool of players to pick up from (with a few exceptions), but remember that you can't integrate them immediately alltogether in a NT as there would always be stars at the age of 32-36 enjoying NT time and leaving the young on the bench.


    National leagues certainly help here, but you can rarely become an internationally valuable player only by staying in your domestic club, even if of the rank of Roeselare or Fenerbahce. There are few exceptions, but they mostly come from the best leagues such as Russia and Poland. We've discussed several times here before that a good player in a Junior NT not always reaches the men's level with success. Exactly the transition between juniors and men, so tao say, in the age period 18-22, is crucial to forming a player. Maybe th recipe will be to build the Belgian or the Turkish NT around the core of these 5-6 promising players in the near future, but you can imagine how difficult it would be, especially if they change several coaches in between. Good examples are Argentina and Cuba, their youngsters are more or less in the 12-men roster every year. But even they lack significant experience sometimes. Belgium and Turkey are teams with less success compared to Argentina and Cuba on men's level, but it takes involvement from a nation to create stars and role models as well, so maybe this is why muse said they won't appear that successful in the future.


    It's a really complicated matter, tangled with factors, so I doubt any agreement can be reached here. But my personal opinion is that Belgium, Turkey, Iran and all the others developing junior level volleyball will show results when they create 2-3 consecutive generations of players like these. Otherwise, it will be a sporadic achievement qualifying for Euro and World Champs.

    YavorD


    I got your point of view very well :win: But what I wanted to say is that these Turkish and Belgian young players will have more chance compared to other boys, 'cause the teams like Russia,Bulgaria, Poland, Italy etc. always fight for the gold in every competition, and it is harder to adopt these players to senior NT 'cause you can't guess clearly what they will do in such competitions like WCH, ECH or WL and you can't risk it easly. However, Turkey is a country that doesn't have a big history in men's volleyball so that we can try to adopt these players to senior NT easily, I mean it would be risky for the top teams to do that but it is not like that for Turkey or Belgium. I mean if it doesn't work, no problem. But if it works and we can get a result, that would be 'earning'.


    For example just look at our women volleyball team in 2003 ECH. Who knew that volleyball existed in Turkey before 2003ECH(not clubs, NT). In that championship our leaders were 19 year old Neslihan and 20 year old Esra and Gülden(of course there were the likes of Özlem Özçelik, Natalia Hanikoğlu, Bahar Mert etc.). That was a risk to play with these youngesters, but it worked and look at the results after that. Women Volleyball became so popular in Turkey that so many little girls started to play volleyball. We must achieve something like that in men's volleyball as well.And it is obvious that we can't make it happen with current senior NT.


    I hope I explained well my opinion . ^^ :)

    Quote from raylight


    They are all very good players, but I don't see new Wijsmans coming. You need 1-2 players of his scale to be competative for medals with MEN NT

    Keep an eye on Deroo, he can be the new Wijsmans ;-)
    Maybe the others won't devellop that far but they will motivate the younger to an higher goal and with time we will build a strong team, believe me we just need time because we already have talent ;-)

    Quote from Thorn

    Keep an eye on Deroo, he can be the new Wijsmans ;-)
    Maybe the others won't devellop that far but they will motivate the younger to an higher goal and with time we will build a strong team, believe me we just need time because we already have talent ;-)


    You are going up, indeed :)

    Quote from Thorn

    believe me we just need time because we already have talent ;-)


    Hey,there is an user in our Turkish forum and he is writing like you, he says that in 3 years, with these young players ,Turkish men's volleyball team will be amonsgt top teams, though i have some doubts about the time he projected : in 3 years... :thumbsup:

    Quote from Canter


    Hey,there is an user in our Turkish forum and he is writing like you, he says that in 3 years, with these young players ,Turkish men's volleyball team will be amonsgt top teams, though i have some doubts about the time he projected : in 3 years... :thumbsup:

    Maybe he and I are the same user...xD I also doubt your NT will improve so fast but they will keep improving and that's what matters the most ;-)