Turkey - Acıbadem First League 2012/13

    Quote from Canter

    If VB wins a cup with its youngsters someday then its ok but it still depends mainly on its foreign players like Brako,Glinka,Fürst.


    Volleyball in Turkey doesn't have a long history, it is not a wrestling, weightlifting, etc. which are already settled, with long history.
    Raising a tree, say walnut tree, and getting its fruits take some years. Raising a sport culture from youth to seniors take longer time. Ajax-like academies in football weren't built a decade ago. Have we been hearing volley success in Turkey till a decade ago? No. We have started to hear some successes also at NT levels just in last few years and last year, it is in their peak level when junior NT won Euro and World championship. Where were those youngsters grown? Mostly at Vakif academy and then Ecz academy with some little contributions from other clubs.


    Senior A-team, also at Vakif, with some world stars is built specially for young girls, to attract them to volley sport and this is valid especially for academies like Vakif. Hence, we see Glinka, Furst, Brako and Saori too at Vakif senior-A team. What about Gozde? and her twin? They too are products of Vakif academy and the youngsters of Vakif have already started to pressure on senior level players around the league. In 3 years, if you see a team in Turkey with all those players raised at Vakif become a Turkey champion, don't be surprised, or, if they are unable to find places at senior starters positions, don't be surprised if we see them at other country clubs too.


    By the way, maybe not Brako, Furst, Saori yet, but, Glinka is not considered as foreigner anymore, she is not different than any Turkish player at Vakif, Vakif is her home too.

    Quote from serdar

    If Guidetti (one of the best active coach in the world) does not do what you dream (who is a rookie volleyball audience), it means he does not know volleyball. :what: Such a great logic :roll:


    I would love to see your face when you realize your foresight were wrong. Kim won't go anywhere from FB, at least I am sure not Eczacıbaşı. Moreover if I know Guidetti a bit, he won't keep Saori one more year.


    By the way, what partially payment Saori's salary are you talking about? Which sponsor is that? You recently make it up :whistle:


    Serdar, I read in your avatar/profile that Vakif is your favorite team, and you are a Vakif fan too and you are expert.


    So, just tell us what the logic is in transfer of Saori. If she was tried some by giving her some more chances as starter etc and if she failed in these given enough games, then, we could say Saori is a failure for Vakif. But, since the beginning of season, she has been coming off the bench, with some playing time only. If Saori were a youngster and/or an unknown name in volley world, maybe, we could still say she has been given enough chance and she couldn't show herself. But, we are talking about a player who has proven herself from world championships to olympics. So, there must be somethings different story behind all these. Since we both do not know what the real stiuation (contract, project, financial issues, etc) is, we can only assume/guess and my assumptions/guesses are logic-based, while yours are illogically, only about immediate successes like Fener-like clubs fans expect. When you think about Saori, you should also think her together with Vakif, a different club like academy with some mission, long term plans, etc. Guidetti likes Vakif also because of these reasons, he found a good oppurtinity and freedom at Vakif to realize his ideas about the volley from strategies to theories to practicals. As for Saori's financial issue, Japan sponsor, etc: I had read somewhere that she and Japan assistant of Guidetti were partially financed by a Japan sponsor, but, since Vakif doesn't disclose any financial agreements including agreements with players too, we will never know. But, people saying Saori costed a lot to Vakif are as if they know. So, they need to prove first how much Vakif is paying Saori before my proof is requested.


    Kim is another story, I said it, she is already a world star and a real world star, showing highest performance in volley world today. If she wants to go anywhere else, she will be accepted by any club in the world. No, Vakif will not make offer to her, not because she is valueless for Vakif, but, Vakif won't pay much money to her, at least, not as much as Ecz or Kazan or Rabita-like clubs can pay. Fener can not keep Kim definitely anymore. If they won CEV cup this year, they had a big chance to get wild card for CEV CL and Kim could stay at Fener, but, it didn't happen. Give a single reason for Kim to stay at Fener? Love? lol.

    Quote from ErolGarip

    It is called "raising", not buying. Only 10% of youngsters Vakif has are transferred to Vakif, 90% of youngsters already rented around the league are raised at Vakif academy. Vakif dominates the league in that academy, raising process. Whether you like cacik/tatziki or not, buti Vakif definitely is a good kebab maker.

    Don't you know how unhealthy too much kebab is. How many of Vakifbank's A team started to play volleyball in Vakifbank? Are there any other clubs with 40 players? If you like, you can give examples from Italy or Poland. The Turkish league will remain boring as long as the clubs stuck to this tranfers policy and foreigners limit.

    Quote from T-Volley

    Don't you know how unhealthy too much kebab is. How many of Vakifbank's A team started to play volleyball in Vakifbank? Are there any other clubs with 40 players? If you like, you can give examples from Italy or Poland. The Turkish league will remain boring as long as the clubs stuck to this tranfers policy and foreigners limit.


    40 players of Vakif. About 30+ of them were raised at Vakif and they are rented/playing at other teams in Turkey, starter young players. Vakif isn't a club transferring stars and keeping them to weaken other teams. It is the only Vakif club spending biggest money on rasing players. So, it is not buying and eating kebabs, but, cooking kebabs also for other teams. Yes, not all players at Vakif -A team are Vakif product, but, even if Vakif bench, B-team, Vakif products compete as a seperate team in the league, they can still have a chance to become champion in the league. Why are you against Vakif's having so many young talents? Nobody is stopping Fener or other clubs to transfer those young talents of Vakif, pay the cost, get the players, that's it, if you don't like hard working like raising young players. Foreign limit is problem? Today, there are many young talents in Turkey, they even became Euro and World champions last year. Even if there was no limit, if I were Fener management, for ex, I'd still go for those young talents and could transfer some of them by paying their raising costs to Vakif. A team with young talents is more exciting for me than having a team with all world stars, gives me more amateur-sport feeling.

    Quote from ErolGarip

    40 players of Vakif. About 30+ of them were raised at Vakif and they are playing at other teams in Turkey, starter young players. Vakif isn't a club transferring stars and keeping them to weaken other teams. It is the only Vakif club spending biggest money on rasing players. So, it is not buying and eating kebabs, but, cooking kebabs also for other teams. Yes, not all players at Vakif -A team are Vakif product, but, even if Vakif bench, B-team, Vakif products compete as a seperate team in the league, they can still have a chance to become champion in the league. Why are you against Vakif's having so many young talents? Nobody is stopping Fener or other clubs to transfer those young talents of Vakif, pay the cost, get the players, that's it, if you don't like hard working like raising young players. Foreign limit is problem? Today, there are many young talents in Turkey, they even became Euro and World champions last year. Even if there was no limit, if I were Fener management, for ex, I'd still go for those young talents and could transfer some of them by paying their raising costs to Vakif. A team with young talents is more exciting for me than having a team with all world stars, gives me more amateur-sport feeling.

    To be honest I don't know how many of Vakifbank's 40 players were raised at Vakifbank. Nevertheless, it is not ok to have that many players. Most of the players will never made it to Vakifbank's A team. If it was Fenerbahce I would criticize Fenerbahce. Turkish federation has two options, canceling the foreigner limits or imposing a limit for renting. This is how Turkish leaguge is right now; Lack of Turkish player in the leaguge! Vakifbank has 40 players!

    Quote from ErolGarip

    Serdar, I read in your avatar/profile that Vakif is your favorite team, and you are a Vakif fan too and you are expert.


    So, just tell us what the logic is in transfer of Saori. If she was tried some by giving her some more chances as starter etc and if she failed in these given enough games, then, we could say Saori is a failure for Vakif. But, since the beginning of season, she has been coming off the bench, with some playing time only. If Saori were a youngster and/or an unknown name in volley world, maybe, we could still say she has been given enough chance and she couldn't show herself. But, we are talking about a player who has proven herself from world championships to olympics. So, there must be somethings different story behind all these. Since we both do not know what the real stiuation (contract, project, financial issues, etc) is, we can only assume/guess and my assumptions/guesses are logic-based, while yours are illogically, only about immediate successes like Fener-like clubs fans expect. When you think about Saori, you should also think her together with Vakif, a different club like academy with some mission, long term plans, etc. Guidetti likes Vakif also because of these reasons, he found a good oppurtinity and freedom at Vakif to realize his ideas about the volley from strategies to theories to practicals. As for Saori's financial issue, Japan sponsor, etc: I had read somewhere that she and Japan assistant of Guidetti were partially financed by a Japan sponsor, but, since Vakif doesn't disclose any financial agreements including agreements with players too, we will never know. But, people saying Saori costed a lot to Vakif are as if they know. So, they need to prove first how much Vakif is paying Saori before my proof is requested.


    Kim is another story, I said it, she is already a world star and a real world star, showing highest performance in volley world today. If she wants to go anywhere else, she will be accepted by any club in the world. No, Vakif will not make offer to her, not because she is valueless for Vakif, but, Vakif won't pay much money to her, at least, not as much as Ecz or Kazan or Rabita-like clubs can pay. Fener can not keep Kim definitely anymore. If they won CEV cup this year, they had a big chance to get wild card for CEV CL and Kim could stay at Fener, but, it didn't happen. Give a single reason for Kim to stay at Fener? Love? lol.


    I will try my best to be kind as much as I can by replying you, however you should know that it is really hard to put up with your arrogance and insolence!


    First of all, if you really look at my profile you should also realize that Saori one of my favorite players in the world. That's why do not even there to impute me to be malevolent or biased against her! Logic of transferring Saori is simply the fact that she wants to have another challenge in Europe and Guidetti wants to utilize her defensive and reception skills, moreover, Kim's unexpected success also must give him hope (Kim has unique physical ability which most of other Asian players lack) However, Saori has never been planned to play as starter since Guidetti wants to play with Gözde with tow strong attacker (previously Glinka and Nikoliç) so it would not make any sense to play Saori and Gözde at the same time on the court. Saori did not show impressive performance whenever she got chance (don't tell me that she does not get enough sets from Naz, or she does not get a chance to play! Polen and Fürst played almost as much as Saori did, yet still they show impressive performance! Even Güldeniz helped more whenever she entered the game :roll: ) Besides, Saori's reception performance also was disappointing. Thus, she transferred as a reserved player to Vakıf yet she did not contribute enough. That's why signing with her would make no sense. (your claim regarding 'Saori is Guidetti's future project' is just a conspiracy theory! there is no interview or sign referring that idea)


    By the way, your snubness is making me laugh, you allege that your every word is logical whereas mine is illogical since I don't agree your idea? How stupid circular reasoning is this X(


    Lastly about Kim, first thing you should get into your head is the fact that, as Matthias has stated before, Kim is a human being and saying money is her biggest concern is a huge assumption! She has different priorities as she proved that by signing with FB this season although they did not play CL and she has plenty good offers. In addition, she stress that she would never play in any other Turkish team but Fenerbahçe. Wrong or right but this is her loyalty to club and she showed this many many time ;) Let's assume that she decided to leave FB, she would have better option such as Kazan, Rabita or Vakıf which are more charming. Vakıf has better coach than Eczacı, also there will be a better setter who Kim already had great connection etc. All in all, I don't believe that Kim will resign her contract with FB and although she would, she won't transfer to Eczacı 8)


    your words are "indeed" kind. (maybe, you need to learn to use expressions first. Okay, I am ignoring your these words (in bold) for this time, but, if you repeat, ignore my words next time.


    I underlined some of your words in italic cause I see that you are not reading what I am writing.


    Your first paragraph (about Saori) smells like words coming out of a fan like a Fener fan who expects immediate success. We can see this in your comparisons with Furst, Gozde, Guldeniz, even Polen. How long have these players been in Turkey? How long has Saori been? If we considered Furst's first year in Turkey, she could have been back in Germany league long time ago. If we considered her performance of Brako last year, she should not have been transferred to Vakif. Saori isn't a rookie in volley world, a proven player in world volley, more than Gozde, Neslihan, etc (she is an important part of olympic medalist team.) Yes, Saori is a rookie, but, in Turkey and especially at Vakif, with a system with synchronized gears. Adopting Naz to Vakif is easy as she already knows the environment, system, gears. Adopting Brako too is easy as she filled a gap, a missing gear already, adopting Neslihan to Vakif isn't easy as she doesn't fit Vakif character, style, too much individualism at Neslihan. Neslihan could be very unsuccessful at Vakif or if Neslihan becomes successfull, Vakif becomes unsuccessful. Neslihan and especially Kim is playing at a system-less team (Fener) at all. Saori isn't a shining individual star like Kim, yes, but, she is more of a system player and her system (Japan system in particular, Far East system in general) are totally different, total team-system style. If you look at teams in Europe closely, styles and systems of only a few teams are closer to Japan or Far East team-system style and Vakif is one of these few teams, and the success of Vakif is due to this system, team-system in which individualism is lowlighted. For these reasons, Saori is a perfect fit for Vakif. Even Kim can not play team-system game, or at least, she never played such a system game, neither in Korea nor in Fener. In that sense, Kim can fit Fener, Ecz, etc more, but, not to Vakif. Anyway, I often mentioned "project" about Saori for these reasons. But, you say it is my conspiracy? Of course, I am not a member of Vakif sport management board and I don't know their purpose of transferring Saori who is already well known volley player in the world and I don't know their game system policy from inside. I can only guess, like you are doing. From what I have seen upto now, she is an important player in Vakif play system which I believe will be more like Japan system next years, more of floor defence, etc.


    Again, Kim. Kim said so (playing only at Fener) because she didn't know enough about Fener last year. Now, she knows her "love(!)" more and better and she sees she doesn't see any future with her instant love (Fener has no real volley culture.) Again, as I said before, she accepted to play at Fener even though Fener wasn't at CL because she had no any other chance last year (formal problems with Korean club, etc.) other than staying at Fener till her stiuation is cleared. Now, it is clear and she is free and she has a reason or two not to stay at Fener and she also sees most professional club in Turkey with money and with volley culture which fits her is Eczaci. So, realistically, this long-term-love, that's, marriage (with Ecz) can work for her well. We'll see. If you wanna bet about this with me, this laptop I am using is yours if I lose. Deal?

    Quote from ErolGarip

    Neslihan and especially Kim is playing at a system-less team (Fener) at all. Saori isn't a shining individual star like Kim, yes, but, she is more of a system player and her system (Japan system in particular, Far East system in general) are totally different, total team-system style. If you look at teams in Europe closely, styles and systems of only a few teams are closer to Japan or Far East team-system style and Vakif is one of these few teams, and the success of Vakif is due to this system, team-system in which individualism is lowlighted. For these reasons, Saori is a perfect fit for Vakif. Even Kim can not play team-system game, or at least, she never played such a system game, neither in Korea nor in Fener. In that sense, Kim can fit Fener, Ecz, etc more, but, not to Vakif.

    ?( Except when she was in Fener, Kim has played a team-system game - in Korean league and especially in Japan for two years.

    Quote from Canter

    Leo was a starter , she isnt in the game due to a slight injury now...

    I know it is about her shoulder.... Is it serious? What happened? ;(

    It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
    If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.


    Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.



    Twitter

    What about Nihan? I saw a pic on twitter...

    It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
    If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.


    Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.



    Twitter

    Did she went out in the middle fo the set or she just stop to play at the beginning of the set?


    I've read somewhere else that it is not so serious ^^

    It's possible, you just have to believe in yourself and really not care what other people say, because I've heard it all.
    If you let someone else dictate what you're going to do in life, then you won't get there.


    Non so neanche come onestamente: in due mesi ero di nuovo in campo.



    Twitter

    From the stat sheets it looks like Nilüfer released Bogmaster and signed with Bulgarian Evelina Tsvetanova.



    You keep on saying Saori is bad, poor performances, bla bla bla.
    Have you considered what kind of player Saori is?
    She plays with speed, varieties, and you require her to play with high and power balls?
    Are you crazy?
    We all know that Saori isn't that type of player with power.
    Do you know why Saori is so successful in Japan NT?
    Do you see the differences of Takeshita and Naz?
    Saori really didn't have much chances to hit the balls. And this is her first season outside a fast and variety- system team.


    You should really make sure of the facts before you post stupid things.