2018 FIVB World Championship - Japan

  • Turkey and Italy has been sucking really bad for a long time and just now they finally got stronger... so is not like that they would deserve to be in Group A or D. If they wanted to be in a weaker group they should have won a Medal at the Olympics and World Cup like Serbia did.

    I think I get how things tilt a little in Japan's (as host) favor to keep attendance up (or whatever) but how is all the rest of this tournament rigged? Seems like everybody from different parts of the world think it's deliberately back-roomed against their team. I really don't get it. Does FIVB put sticky stuff on those random ball draws so that the best teams (in their mind) end up in the playoffs? Or is the whole way it's organized make it so that random ball draws have no effect on FIVB's pre-determined outcome.

  • I think I get how things tilt a little in Japan's (as host) favor to keep attendance up (or whatever) but how is all the rest of this tournament rigged? Seems like everybody from different parts of the world think it's deliberately back-roomed against their team. I really don't get it. Does FIVB put sticky stuff on those random ball draws so that the best teams (in their mind) end up in the playoffs? Or is the whole way it's organized make it so that random ball draws have no effect on FIVB's pre-determined outcome.

    No the tournament is not rigged. The Final 6 I wrote is just my own prediction, like I said volleyball is not like soccer, so we won`t see like China exciting the tournament in the first round just like Germany did in Russia... there won`t be big upsets simply because the "weaker" teams can`t compete against the stronger teams in volleyball ( and many other sports)....so it is easy to predict who the final 6 will be.


    Japan gets a easier draw because they are the host.... and the host enters the tournament as the number #1 seed AND THIS IS WHAT ALL THE USERS OVER HERE DON`T GET.... with happens in every tournament in every sport... Just like Brazil got in the weaker group in Rio.... London in London...and so on....THE HOST ALWAYS and WILL ALWAYS be put in a weaker group... They are paying for the whole tournament and they must at least get something back....and this is what they get.


    Russia did the same in the World Cup....so is not just FIVB.....FIFA does the same thing... and so does everyone else.

    and look how their brackets were set up.... Right on the Round of 16 Brazil`s group would face Germany`s group.....Germany did not even make it out of pool play but we could have seen a Germany vs Brazil right in the round of 16.....


    Now imagine if FIVB set up a bracket where let`s say USA would face Brazil? or China vs Serbia in the round of 16?? People would be hating on the Japanese and FIVB....saying everything is in order to favor Japan and all that....


    sitenoise ....my response is more directed to the users that are always complaining about the draw and blaming FIVB simply because they don`t understand the host always does and always will get put in a easier group... Please don`t think I`m going off on you ok???????

  • So if the host gets put in an easier group, how does that mess it up for EVERYBODY else? Someone here suggested, I think it might have been you, that this tournament's choice to accumulate points, take them from round 1 into round 2, is at the heart of the problem. Was that a decision by FIVB to help Japan? It seems so when coupled with putting them in an easy group. Is it really that creepy?


    Seems the FIVB/Japan relationship is pretty strong, but I'm not sure how that can make it unfair for EVERYBODY else. Teams have to win some games.


    Maybe FIVB is loosening it's relationship with Japan by demoting the World Cup and hoping that other countries will step up and host the two remaining quad tournaments. See how that works out. And then maybe we get to a place where either the Host doesn't get the #1 seed or FIVB insists that the reigning champion host the next chapter of any given tournament (a suggestion someone here made that makes sense ... but then there will always be the question of CAN THEY PAY FOR IT)


    I liked the way the VNL went. Everybody played everybody else once. They played all over the world so many teams got a taste of Home Court Advantage. And there you have it. But it's a meaningless unimportant tournament.


    I want to quote this again:

    Turkey and Italy has been sucking really bad for a long time and just now they finally got stronger... so is not like that they would deserve to be in Group A or D. If they wanted to be in a weaker group they should have won a Medal at the Olympics and World Cup like Serbia did.

    How exactly would that play out? Because they would have been FIVB-ranked differently so the random ball draws might have helped them? Or that FIVB would back-room some deal for them?


    I'd like to see a response of "Okay, we gotta win some games" rather than "This is so unfair to us".

  • As an aside, Japan may have nice facilities, nice food, and friendly-hosty people running all around, but for my pleasure The Netherlands and Kazakhstan have had some of the best atmosphere/fans. In this recent Asian Club Tournament, twice as many people attended the THA v JPN Final than the Bronze match with KAZ. Okay, it was the final but it was a great scene. Everybody cheering on every good play. Wonderful!


    There may be other countries with great fans I'm not familiar with, so no disrespect to any of them. I just wish FIVB would take into consideration how good the turnout and fan appreciation is going to be when they are looking for hosts. It really adds to the shiny happy.

  • The reason Japan is always hosting is mainly because other countries can`t afford and they don`t have nice facilities, nice food, and friendly-host people...people should be thankfully that Japan can afford to host all these volleyball tournaments, if we were to depend on other countries maybe the only volleyball tournament out there would be the Olympics.


    Japan will be hosting the World Cup next year but it won`t be used as Olympic Qualification.....I guess it will be just a friendly tournament...I heard that is because Japan simply "owns" the World Cup so they can`t or won`t let any other country take it from them....but it could be just like any other country simply can`t afford hosting such a long tournament especially because they would not be making any money in return.


    The reason I said if Turkey wanted to be in a weaker group they should have won a medal at the Olympics is simply because Turkish fans are complaining Turkey is in a such tough group when they have won absolutely NOTHING....so I don`t get why they are complaining .....but they would think it is ok if either Brazil (2x OG champions) or Serbia ( Silver in the past 2 major tournaments) were in the Group with China.


    And yeah if Turkey had won or medal in tournaments they would have more points and they would be a easier group.


    Group A: Japan (host) Group B: China #1, Group C: USA#2 Group D: Serbia #3

    Group: A NED #8 Group B: Italy #7 Group C: Russia #5 Group D: Brazil#4


    and from there it was a random draw...

  • So if Japan just took their spot in the rankings, Turkey ... well ... this doesn't seem that different.


    Pool A
    Pool B
    Pool C Pool D
    China USA Serbia Brazil
    NED Italy Japan Russia
    ARG Turkey KOR DOM
    GER BUL THA PUR
    CAM CAN AZE KAZ
    MEX CUB T&T KEN


    As a reminder, these were the first unofficial Pools that had everybody up in arms. Turkey just can't get a break :) Honestly, they don't seem all that different to me. Teams gotta win some games. Bottom Line. I'm not afraid of Serbia (much).

    • Pool A: Japan, Netherlands, Dominican Republic, Germany, Cameroon, Cuba
    • Pool B: China, Italy, Korea, Puerto Rico, Canada, Mexico
    • Pool C: USA, Russia, Argentina, Thailand, Kazakhstan, Kenya
    • Pool D: Serbia, Brazil, Turkey, Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, Trinidad and Tobago



    Japan simply "owns" the World Cup so they can`t or won`t let any other country take it from them

    I don't know how that works. How can they "own" a tournament?


    Now it will be like Japan has these two odd-year tournaments that nobody likes and nobody will take seriously. It lets Japan feel like they are still involved in International level volleyball even if they never qualify for the OG or WC again. They should just dis-invite all the crybaby teams and then they could actually win a gold medal :cup:

  • Oh your chart was very nice...,,,and that truly shows Japan is not doing anything wrong or taking any advantages over the others, they are simply following the rankings. They would easily take down T&T, AZE, KOR and THA...only difficult game would be against Serbia....and facing USA and Italy in the 2nd round is that same as facing Brazil and Serbia.


    Japan owning the World Cup? Well that is what I heard...I think they were the ones that created it.

  • Being host have benefits, no doubt about that. Japan lucked out of not having drawn the best team from their respective pots.


    Don't think anyone is mad that Japan is hosting. It is just the teams involved are not the best, thus leading to bad draws. Why did NORCECA have 7 teams when they are not that strong, with only 4 teams in the top 24 ranking? The same thing happened in Rio when some teams didn't belong there. This kind of stuff leads to conspiracy theories.

  • Being host have benefits, no doubt about that. Japan lucked out of not having drawn the best team from their respective pots.


    Don't think anyone is mad that Japan is hosting. It is just the teams involved are not the best, thus leading to bad draws. Why did NORCECA have 7 teams when they are not that strong, with only 4 teams in the top 24 ranking? The same thing happened in Rio when some teams didn't belong there. This kind of stuff leads to conspiracy theories.

    It's no conspiracy theory. The FIVB is dominated by USA and Brazil influences, and always friendly to the top Asian teams too, and kind of hostile against CEV, so they are mostly creating unfair and not balanced championships, where the European teams have disadvantages and especially too few berths. This is also historical behaviour, nothing new.

  • im not that sure if any other country other than Japan doesnt/cant want to hold a major fivb tournament..some european countries can organize a big tournament .


    on dreaming of Turkey's being in the easist pool....this wasnt my point...my point is that Pool A is obviously the easiest pool and this draw system is not balanced and fair enough..can somebody tell me how e.g. Argentina could take a higher place than Turkey than Germany than Belgium,Thailand,Bulgaira,Poland,Azerbaijan, even than Czech R in the world ranking ? this defective ranking system isnt fair and results in this unbalanced pool composition in the end..

    it has nothing to do with winning an OG or WCH medal

    to me..it could have been tolerated to some extent but combining two strongets pools in second round is too much and makes no sense ! its not balanced and not fair!,

    also,being the host mustnt make the host advantegous..its absurd!..its like a host's going directly to the f4 in Cev CL

  • The only reason that group A is so weak is because Argentina are horribly over ranked but it happens in every sport that sometimes the draw is lucky for some teams and unlucky for others. But remember in Rio everyone knew Brazil had the easy group but then everyone from that group lost in the quarterfinals. Sometimes it is better to come through a more difficult group because you are more ready for top level opponents in the next round.


    Clearly the draw favours the hosts, but it’s not some conspiracy. Hosts are always the highest seeds and the serpentine system is always used in FIVB competitions, just the same as here.


    It is what it is, now every team just needs to focus on playing their best game and not worrying about being in a tougher part of the draw.

  • talking about Turkey...qualifying for OG is already hard from european continent..even if you are qualified then you end up being in the toughest pool .the current ranking system doesnt reflect world's teams's real standings fairly on its ranking


    what about such a pool composition ??

    Pool A : China , Russia ,Turkey, Belgium, Argentina, Croatia

    Pool B : Usa , Japan , DR ,Poland , Azerbaijan , Canada

    Pool C : Serbia , Italy, Korea , Bulgaria , Czech R , Cameroon

    Pool D : Brazil , Netherlands , Germany ,Thailand , Puerto Rico , Mexico



  • Group A is weak because of the luck of the draw. Don't think Argentina's ranking has anything to do with it. Japan just happened to draw Argentina, being the weakest team in pot 1 in my opinion. Pot 2 Japan drew Germany, not the best team for me. Pot 3 Cameroon is the weakest, and Pot 4 no comment.


    I think it all comes down to FIVB if they want better competition or not. Don't really care about the politics and history behind their decisions.

  • the current ranking system doesnt reflect world's teams's real standings fairly on its ranking

    I assume that's because it's a long term cumulative thing. Rewarding teams for consistency in performing well over the long haul. It would be wildly subjective to say "wow, Italy is looking pretty good this year, lets boost them in the rankings".


    On the other hand, the fact that a team has accumulated a lot of points for medals they won 5 -10 years ago could be mitigated by depreciating the points over time. Say by 10% per year, so that a team that had 100 points for winning Olympic gold 10 years ago would by today have lost most of those points.


    Canter , you think Turkey has a better chance of beating Russia than Italy this year?

  • Group A is weak because of the luck of the draw. Don't think Argentina's ranking has anything to do with it. Japan just happened to draw Argentina, being the weakest team in pot 1 in my opinion. Pot 2 Japan drew Germany, not the best team for me. Pot 3 Cameroon is the weakest, and Pot 4 no comment.


    I think it all comes down to FIVB if they want better competition or not. Don't really care about the politics and history behind their decisions.

    My point about the ranking is that Argentina shouldn't be ranked highly enough to get into Pot 1.


    I assume that's because it's a long term cumulative thing. Rewarding teams for consistency in performing well over the long haul. It would be wildly subjective to say "wow, Italy is looking pretty good this year, lets boost them in the rankings".


    On the other hand, the fact that a team has accumulated a lot of points for medals they won 5 -10 years ago could be mitigated by depreciating the points over time. Say by 10% per year, so that a team that had 100 points for winning Olympic gold 10 years ago would by today have lost most of those points.

    The rankings are only based on the last cycle, so when the draw was made 2014 WCH, 2015 WC, 2016 OG and 2017 WGP were the only things counting towards a ranking. In theory this seems perfectly reasonable to me, but since European teams have a much tougher time qualifying for the World Cup and the Olympics it skews the rankings so that teams like Argentina have an inflated points total.

  • The rankings are only based on the last cycle, so when the draw was made 2014 WCH, 2015 WC, 2016 OG and 2017 WGP were the only things counting towards a ranking. In theory this seems perfectly reasonable to me, but since European teams have a much tougher time qualifying for the World Cup and the Olympics it skews the rankings so that teams like Argentina have an inflated points total.

    Ahh, thanks for clarifying that. And it illuminates for me (the obvious fact, now) that if a team can't/doesn't qualify for a tournament, they can't gather any points for doing well in it.


    So setting aside conspiracy theories and sticky stuff on the random draw balls, if FIVB reduced the NORCECA teams by a few and upped the CEV teams by the same number so that Poland, Croatia, and Czech replaced T&T, Mexico, and Canada (for example) we would have a little more exciting WC, more Europeans would be happy, and there'd be rainbows and puppies everywhere. I think this is what jetmasters is suggesting.

  • I assume that's because it's a long term cumulative thing. Rewarding teams for consistency in performing well over the long haul. It would be wildly subjective to say "wow, Italy is looking pretty good this year, lets boost them in the rankings".


    On the other hand, the fact that a team has accumulated a lot of points for medals they won 5 -10 years ago could be mitigated by depreciating the points over time. Say by 10% per year, so that a team that had 100 points for winning Olympic gold 10 years ago would by today have lost most of those points.


    Canter , you think Turkey has a better chance of beating Russia than Italy this year?

    some teams in their respective continents can get/reach some points easily compared to some other teams in some other continents and all these points have a say in whole picture (ranking system). this way ,some teams may undeservedly get a better place over the other teams in the world ranking which doestn reflect the real picture


    about your question : i expect Russia will come up with a better team in Japan. if Turkey can fight as well as they did in VNL, why not ? the Russsian team in VNL was not a very good one .i dont know how good they can be in two and half months with addition of Goncharova and maybe Kosheleva..both Italy and Turkey can beat Russia..Turkey had beaten Russia with full roster at the last ECH. however Voronkova seemed to be a better player compared to her performance at the ECH..Russia can beat Turkey and Italy as well..

  • My point about the ranking is that Argentina shouldn't be ranked highly enough to get into Pot 1.

    Even if Argentina was not in Pot 1, they would still be in Pot 2. So based on rankings Germany moves to Pot 1 and Argentina to Pot 2. So Pool A would still have the chance to be the same based on the luck of the draw. We can only blame FIVB for allowing weaker teams in this tournament, thus allowing higher chances of unbalanced groups. Whoever benefits the most will get some heat, in this case Japan. I'm not against any team and who ever qualified deserves to be in the competition. If some fans have problems with that, just stick it to FIVB, not any team or confederation.

  • i agree, ARG is way over-ranked, and maybe GER as well.


    but NORCECA having 7 spots is too ridiculous. that's why there's so many weak teams here. i think MEX, CUB and TTO should be replaced by COL, POL and maybe CRO.


    (and of course, one could argue that africa doesn't need 2 spots... but...)

  • what players will be appearing at the WCh that were not at VNL? it seems to me that mostly all the countries played with their A teams... with a few exceptions.


    BRA will add (it seems) lins, thaisa and natalia.


    RUS will add goncharova and kosheleva (?).


    PUR will add enright and ocasio (?).


    CHN will add zhang changning (?).



    i can't think of who would rejoin NTs for US, ITA, TUR -- they pretty much played with A teams, no?