2015 FIVB World League

    Quote from Mamdani

    The value of a team is not indicated by the victories. For example, Serbia didn't win for 10 years (between 2001 and 2011), but at the time I considered it one of the best team in the world (with Miljkovic, Grbic, Geric etc.) and Bulgaria during Kaziyski/Nikolov era was a great team as well, even if they did not win. It's the same in all team sports (the most famous example in football is the Netherlands of Cruyff during the 70s, in basketball the great Croatia of Petrovic/Kukoc/Radja during the 90s).
    Therefore, even if Iran won't win, I consider it one of the best teams in the world right now.


    To clarify, I agree with you that Serbia, Bulgaria etc. are good teams. But are they among the best teams? Unfortunately I don't think so. Serbia's most recent outstanding result was 2011 ECh winner, and Bulgaria 4th place in OG and 13 ECh. And do note that this does not bury the fact that Atanasijevic etc are outstanding players. It's just those teams have their short comings, while the really great teams managed to fix theirs.


    And the cruel side of history is, not every great players could be memorized, but all the victories will be archived and kept in mind. I am very sad that few people know who Marcos Milinkovic is, even he had one of the most spectacular plays two decades ago.

    Quote from Martee

    To clarify, I agree with you that Serbia, Bulgaria etc. are good teams. But are they among the best teams? Unfortunately I don't think so. Serbia's most recent outstanding result was 2011 ECh winner, and Bulgaria 4th place in OG and 13 ECh. And do note that this does not bury the fact that Atanasijevic etc are outstanding players. It's just those teams have their short comings, while the really great teams managed to fix theirs.


    And the cruel side of history is, not every great players could be memorized, but all the victories will be archived and kept in mind. I am very sad that few people know who Marcos Milinkovic is, even he had one of the most spectacular plays two decades ago.

    Starting from the end, I know very well who Milinkovic was, and I know as well the great Argentinian players of the time (Kantor, Conte, Cuminetti etc.), it's a shame that most of the people don't know how strong that national team was (unfortunately at the time Netherlands and Italy were too strong for almost everybody).
    By the way, I was not talking about Bulgaria and Serbia of the present, but about Serbia and Bulgaria of the last decade (2003-2010 to be precise): two teams without gold medals, but they were great teams though, just like Argentina was at the time of our common love Marcos Milincovic and Juan Carlos Cuminetti :thumbup:

    Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter




    Quote from Martee

    To clarify, I agree with you that Serbia, Bulgaria etc. are good teams. But are they among the best teams? Unfortunately I don't think so. Serbia's most recent outstanding result was 2011 ECh winner, and Bulgaria 4th place in OG and 13 ECh. And do note that this does not bury the fact that Atanasijevic etc are outstanding players. It's just those teams have their short comings, while the really great teams managed to fix theirs.


    And the cruel side of history is, not every great players could be memorized, but all the victories will be archived and kept in mind. I am very sad that few people know who Marcos Milinkovic is, even he had one of the most spectacular plays two decades ago.



    I guess we have a different definition of BEST teams. You consider best only those which are great, am I right? This means, to you, maybe Poland, USA, and Russia are the best teams in the world. Apart from the World Grand Champions Cup, a meaningless tournament, Brazil are holding nothing else anymore. Applying the same logic, the Brazilians are not among the BEST teams then, for they have no trophies lately. Well, even Russia doesn't seem like a great team at the moment. So, in my opinion, BEST should include also those good teams which can match the great ones. If not always, at least sometimes.


    I have never considered Bulgaria, just an example, a great team, but as good, and especially in the period 2006 - 2010 as one of the best teams in the world. A level they only came close to in 2012 and 2013. Serbia is even more successful and, to me, they are a great team.


    Great teams and great players are two totally different topics. You are right - in the end results count, not the number of outstanding performers.

    Quote from YavorD

    So, in my opinion, BEST should include also those good teams which can match the great ones. If not always, at least sometimes.

    Exactly, that's what I think as well. According to Martee's reasoning it seems that only Polonia and Usa should be considered the elite of volleyball right now (I presume there's a misunderstanding). For me, some teams are the best in the world when they often show to be able to beat or fight on equal terms against teams which won gold medals

    Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter




    Quote from YavorD


    I guess we have a different definition of BEST teams. You consider best only those which are great, am I right? This means, to you, maybe Poland, USA, and Russia are the best teams in the world. Apart from the World Cup, Brazil are holding nothing else anymore. Applying the same logic, the Brazilians are not among the BEST teams then, for they have no trophies lately. Well, even Russia doesn't seem like a great team at the moment. So, in my opinion, BEST should include also those good teams which can match the great ones. If not always, at least sometimes.


    I have never considered Bulgaria, just an example, a great team, but as good, and especially in the period 2006 - 2010 as one of the best teams in the world. A level they only came close to in 2012 and 2013. Serbia is even more successful and, to me, they are a great team.


    Great teams and great players are two totally different topics. You are right - in the end results count, not the number of outstanding performers.


    Ha. Alright. Normally I consider top 3 in WCH WCup OG and ECH, as well as winner of WL in the most recent period as solid accomplishment. So actually Brazil and Italy do count as the best teams. You know, it's sort of like FIVB ranking. And the reason is normally the medalists of those major events don't win their positions in those tournaments easily. They normally will face well-prepared opponents and a formula that (seems) fair to everyone.

    OK. This conversation is becoming pointless. I don't believe I will accept that Iran is among the best teams, nor am I willing to convince the fellow fans with my theory. After all it is important to see how the teams play. Iran now have some good moments and they should keep consistent. And for those teams who are aiming bigger, we should expect to see them showing us some breathtaking rallies in the near future.


    That concludes my comments about this topic. I most likely will not continue writing posts about it. However I'd be happy to extend the discussion with individuals via direct message.

    Quote from Martee

    Ha. Alright. Normally I consider top 3 in WCH WCup OG and ECH, as well as winner of WL in the most recent period as solid accomplishment. So actually Brazil and Italy do count as the best teams. You know, it's sort of like FIVB ranking. And the reason is normally the medalists of those major events don't win their positions in those tournaments easily. They normally will face well-prepared opponents and a formula that (seems) fair to everyone.


    So to sum up, it's more or less biased :D ;)

    Hi,
    I should say I totally agree with Martee. US, Brazil, Poland, Italy, France and maybe Germany (considering their performance in WCH) are currently the best.
    For a team to be the best, winning one or two medals in the most recent events is quite essential.
    The thing about Iran is that 10 15 years ago, we couldn't even beat Korea and Japan. Today however, we're doing our best to cross the must win a trophy line and stay among the good teams. I'm really lookin' forward to that.
    And I don't think anybody suffers even one tenth of what most Iranians do while facing those infamous outbursts.

    Unfortunately Russia still seek for their first win.
    On Polish side, I'm pleased to see that Gacek, as one of the most experienced in the team, stood out when Zati lost himself today. Lomacz handle most part of the match not too bad, though I still hesitate to say he's a good fit for the sub of Fabian.
    This was not a perfect match to watch, but glad to see Poland smiled till the last minute.

    Quote from Mamdani

    Starting from the end, I know very well who Milinkovic was, and I know as well the great Argentinian players of the time (Kantor, Conte, Cuminetti etc.), it's a shame that most of the people don't know how strong that national team was (unfortunately at the time Netherlands and Italy were too strong for almost everybody).
    By the way, I was not talking about Bulgaria and Serbia of the present, but about Serbia and Bulgaria of the last decade (2003-2010 to be precise): two teams without gold medals, but they were great teams though, just like Argentina was at the time of our common love Marcos Milincovic and Juan Carlos Cuminetti :thumbup:


    Milinkovic for me was the best opposite of the 90s/early 2000s. He alone kept us consistently in top 8 of NTs even though it was time where we weren't producing decent players. When he retired it was such a big blow that we are still trying to recover to this day.

    Quote from LDvolley

    Milinkovic for me was the best opposite of the 90s/early 2000s. He alone kept us consistently in top 8 of NTs even though it was time where we weren't producing decent players. When he retired it was such a big blow that we are still trying to recover to this day.

    I repeat that I love Milincovic, but I'm not even sure he was the best Argentinian OPP (Cuminetti was better IMHO), and what about the great Rafa Pascual, Dimitrj Fomin, Andrea Sartoretti, Osvaldo Hernandez? I don't know who was the best one (personally Pascual was the OPP who I liked most at the time late 90s/early 00s, even if a lot of people disagreed with me).


    I apologize for the OT guys

    Per un pir, un pam un persec per na brogna e na rumleina, nuetr'a sam d'la Ghirlandeina nuetr'a sam da rispeter




    After losing qualification to EC and to OG, Portugal is playing with some young players. I don't know why they didn't do it before.


    I watched second game of them with Netherlands, and i think some players can be better in the future if they have more opportunities in NT, like João Oliveira (OH) and Filip (MB). They already have two good setters and one good OH, let's see what they all can do in near future. :drink:

    LDVolley, you didn't deserve more than 1 set in this game. We made 48 errors.


    It was really funny to me to wach Plamen Kontantinov to explain we need to lower the errors on serve /as someone who was very accurate shooter in backetball in school and university/. You don't get accuracy by telling, but by practicing and they are either not practicing or getting nothing out from practicing /which will land them in the very unlikely group of people who can not learn/.


    Btw, impressive reception of Argentina, it's like they have been training for years to became volleyball players, not like the opponent.

    Quote from raylight

    LDVolley, you didn't deserve more than 1 set in this game. We made 48 errors.


    Yes, and If my mom had a dick she would be my dad :rolleyes: We play a style of low error, Bulgaria has a more risky game, it's perfectly natural for you to have more errors (and even then we made 35, not that good either).




    BTW we made more block than you :lol:

    Quote from Username100

    If there was Conte everything would look another. What happened with him? How did he get injury?


    He doesn't have any injury, the coach just didn't want to play him this weekend. But he's not alone, it's the same with all the other experienced OHs, so far we have been playing kids in that position.