Men's European Championship 2017

Quote from Kaziyski

Choke... No OPP contribution today. Germany fought hard, believed and didnt give up. Giani deserves praise. IMO Grbić won't extend contract with Serbia after this ECH...

Well, we talked about chokers 3 days ago and look how things change And we were all sure Russia wouldn't drop a set after the Belgian massacre but who would've bet on that drama last night?

Quote from Kaziyski

Final with Slovenia was bigger sensation than this one. Back then Slovenia eliminated The Netherlands, Poland and Italy. Now Germany had much easier path to the finals

Yes, in general I agree, Slovenia's outburst came out of the blue and probably has a bit bigger value than Germany's silver medal. But mainly because Giani laid the foundations of this Slovenian team and put it on the volleyball map, whereas he inherited a relatively decent team from Heynen (it IS a great team but some players had allegedly retired...) and built on their bronze WCH 2014 finish. I don't quite agree that Slovenia had a much tougher road to the final, they just had a match more (and lost twice in Varna back then). Germany eliminated Italy (kind of, let's ignore the Italian roster for a moment), a much better Czech team than in the pool match, an in-form Serbia and almost beat Russia in the final. Although their path might've been slightly easier (and shorter) after all, Germany played equal against theoretically stronger teams and just the epic comeback versus Serbia is enough to put them alongside Slovenia.

Let me start by congratulating the winners but also the Germans because they actually stole the party on a number of occasions last night. There were a lot of mistakes in the final and it is the most natural thing in a game of such importance and length. But as it is often the case in (professional) volleyball, the more the mistakes and the pressure in a final, the more drama there is. It was a very long and entertaining final and it fit this ECH perfectly. A lot of you complained about the level of the tourney in general and you surely have a point because there were players missing, teams underperforming, completely throughout the event or partially in some games, favourites failing and probably way too many mistakes. From a technical point of view, this ECh wasn't spectacular, but let me take your attention somewhere else for a while. Take the last 4 editions, for instance, and you will find a lot surprises, interesting results, long matches, and overall very nice (in my opinion, at least) tournaments. This has slowly evolved from a trend to a standard in Europe. It doesn't necessarily mean that when teams like Italy, Serbia, France, and Poland fail to reach the semifinals/finals or are not always in top shape (the latter can hardly be the case when the time span is that big) and lose to supposedly weaker teams, the ECH is definitely weak. Yes, Belgium disappointed against Russia, so did Bulgaria, partially Slovenia, and probably a lot of other teams that played/could have faced Russia, but Belgium has improved volleyball-wise a lot and also under the guidance of Heynen, one of Europe's top coaches. Besides, this was the first ever semifinal appearance for Belgium and I am sure even Heynen got nervous. And they had to face a historically tough opponent against which they hadn't won a set in I-don't-know-how-many years. The Czech Rep. also got criticised for their level, but it was a huge improvement in comparison to their previous one. Yes, this comes as a result of a probably (slightly) lower level by big teams, no question about that, but also as a result of the expanding European volleyball geography and I am quite enthusiastic about the latter. In fact, I do look forward to an ECH with 24 teams, which although not necessarily quite successful at the beginning, should prove to be nice in the long run.

My thoughts since that epic comeback by Germany on Saturday have been with Giani and his team. Our Italian friends might have a better perspective about him as a coach and a person than us, I am sure he still has a long way to go as a coach (be it for the aforementioned failures at different clubs or whatever), but just imagine how two consecutive finals with Slovenia and Germany (!) would look on his CV! And how much it says about his capabilities as a coach. I am sure Heynen whom we all admire has had those doubts and failures, too. No coach is safe against taking the wrong team or picking the wrong time, but it is exactly achievements like his that make a volleyball specialist precious. Correct me if I am wrong but Giani spoke only Italian during the time-outs, we saw there wasn't always a translation of his words, and yet he motivated his team in a way that local coaches couldn't do with their lads (my favourite reference - Plamen Konstantinov). Giani's situation with Germany reminds me of an older discussion about how important it is to be able to communicate with your team and whether a foreign coach who doesn't speak your language can get the job done. Thank you, Andrea Giani, for your example! I guess a coach's personality and volleyball knowledge are enough then, language should not necessarily be a hindrance. What is also inspiring is the condition of this German NT in comparison to where they stood just 2 months ago.

I am pleasantly surprised, just like you all, from the integration to senior volleyball of Volkov and Krick, probably the championship's two revelations. And whereas Volkov has been taking his time in order to make it to the first team and stay there permanently, Krick enjoyed a much faster process. I missed the beginning of the final yesterday, I can't talk much in details, but I really liked Lukas Kampa's display and distribution from a certain point on. You could say the captainship brought out more leadership skills from him and he seems to be dealing great with it. He may have been playing the game of his life, actually. Boehme is also a silent hero for Germany, one of their best and most important players. I couldn't explain the mistakes of Mikhaylov, most of them were unforced. He is my number 1 opposite in this volleyball generation and helps a lot even when he has a bad day. In fact, I think last night was as close to a bad match as Mikhaylov could get, yet he was there for Russia (at the end of) in the tie-break and from the service line. It is, to me, the diversity in attack (including the high-jumping MBs and the generally good contribution by the OHs) the Russian setter has which decided not only the tie-break but a lot of the Russian games. Yes, their transition often looked ridiculously ineffective, they were really challenged for the first time during the ECH and I am not saying they played like monsters, because this is neither the best Russian line-up nor their best match, but their performance didn't give me any signs they would lose the tie-break even when they were trailing or when they were 10 points behind in the 4th set. I am slightly disappointed by Grankin who was superb/great/good enough in the previous games. Butko may have saved his a** yesterday, the wonderful cooperation between the Kazan duo (with Mikhaylov) could be seen. Still, Grankin got the Best Setter award, maybe mostly based on his overall performance, but it should've been given to Kampa if we look at the final only.

Last but not least, I didn't like the Serbian sportsmanship at all during the elimination phase, especially Uros Kovacevic and Lisinac. Lisinac got beyond the limits in each of the matches and his behaviour, although probably vital for the Serbian team and their popular confidence, irritates neutral spectators which, maybe just like me, enjoyed watching them get beaten by Germany.

There are a lot of points worth a response in your post.

I will start here:

Quote from YavorD

Correct me if I am wrong but Giani spoke only Italian during the time-outs, we saw there wasn't always a translation of his words, and yet he motivated his team in a way that local coaches couldn't do with their lads (my favourite reference - Plamen Konstantinov). Giani's situation with Germany reminds me of an older discussion about how important it is to be able to communicate with your team and whether a foreign coach who doesn't speak your language can get the job done. Thank you, Andrea Giani, for your example! I guess a coach's personality and volleyball knowledge are enough then, language should not necessarily be a hindrance. What is also inspiring is the condition of this German NT in comparison to where they stood just 2 months ago.

I remember we once had a conversation on the "language topic". I still do believe that there has to be found a way for an effective communication and that it is not a good solution if you need a player to translate your instructions. I still remember the time outs during WCHQ and WL when the team got thrashed by France, Spain (2x), Austria! and Belgium. Watching time outs during these matches were almost painful to watch.

That being said, yesterday it was rather about how you say things than what you say. It was interesting to see how Shlyapnikov always kept composure and talked calmly to his guys, even when there must have been big temptation to shout and scream.

But in the end, most important thing is that we saw a great development with the german team in almost any volleyball related aspect and it is obvious that good work had been done in the training gym. This, in the end, is what defines a good coach more than his language skills. I think we completely agree on this.

EDIT:
Did someone check the official score sheet?

I already wondered whether i watched a different match, when i saw these 22 Blocks, 14 aces and 24 mistakes for the russian team.

http://www.cev.lu/Competition-…hStatistics.aspx?ID=29697

Ok. Both teams that I cheered for in the end of tournament eventually lost. Which made me think from postition of a fan, how unsuccessful this edition was and I want to just forget about it...

If I would be German, I would be like "goodness, SO close!". But hey, you guys, I know the gold was close but did anyone expect reaching final, actually? Enjoy this silver, it's a massive success I don't know who was more touched, Grozer or Giani.

Giani, Giani, Giani... He is becoming more and more hot name in coach's society. Italians will be so foolish not to at least try him as a coach one day. Yes, KK15, I read your post about him and his conflict of the interests with federation. But maybe one day...

Probably for the first time I didn't cheer for Serbs, no matter who their opponent was in the moment. In fact, I don't quite like present team. I like maybe Uros, because he is exactly the type of player that I like, although he is annoying little snot. Srećko still will be among my fav MBs as well. As for Luburić, he was playing and in the same time overcoming real tiredness. Still managed to pull this of. As for the setters of both sides, I seriously was lost deciding who was worse, Serbian or Belgian, oh my world... Couldn't understand also why Van Walle was subbed in one moment but that doesn't matter any longer. I just thought it was stupid decision. Pity that Rousseaux didn't have his day yesterday... Still I'm excited to watch him in Plusliga this coming season because I consider him as an interesting player. As well as Volkov, who makes this Russian team a bit more interesting. Together with his majesty Mikhaylov What a player. Even if he struggles, he can sort himself out to bring some quality needed in tough moments.

Congratulations to the winners! To those who lost also, even if they lost, they achieved sth. Germans with silver, Belgians with... well, nothing physically but still can be proud of overall performance and result. Kudos for making at least the last day exciting.

Quote from Kk15

Giani's time out I think he invented a new language!

bella
Why did Kampa changed his hairstyle?

Well, I guess that since his hair already started to remind of lion's mane or Russian terrier's hair and visibility because of that was limited, he needed to do sth about it.

Quote from YavorD

Still, Grankin got the Best Setter award, maybe mostly based on his overall performance, but it should've been given to Kampa if we look at the final only.

That weird thought bloomed in my head when award ceremony started, that actually Kampa deserved again to be the best setter. And then I just got this hunch that in the end Grankin will take it. And hey, I wasn't mistaken. I just thought that there were so many situations when Grankin came up with some strong and unexpected attacks what in case of chosing the best setter could have been some added value.

Quote from bella

If I would be German, I would be like "goodness, SO close!". But hey, you guys, I know the gold was close but did anyone expect reaching final, actually? Enjoy this silver, it's a massive success I don't know who was more touched, Grozer or Giani.

Yes, thats how i see it, and most/all comments go in this direction too. No comparison to the lost OGQ against your team which at times, still give me nightmares.

Quote from bella

Well, I guess that since his hair already started to remind of lion's mane or Russian terrier's hair and visibility because of that was limited, he needed to do sth about it.

Yeah, back to the real important stuff. I read somewhere that his little braid was the consequence of a lost bet to Jan Zimmermann.

Quote from bella

Pity that Rousseaux didn't have his day yesterday... Still I'm excited to watch him in Plusliga this coming season because I consider him as an interesting player.

He actually had a lot of these "not-my-day" days in Bundesliga too and wasn't even a safe starter for Friedrichshafen. There is potential and he is still young, but imho he has to learn really quickly to survive in polish league. I am not sure he will manage to do well, unless he improves significantly.

Quote from TimHH

But in the end, most important thing is that we saw a great development with the German team in almost any volleyball related aspect and it is obvious that good work had been done in the training gym. This, in the end, is what defines a good coach more than his language skills. I think we completely agree on this.

We do, that's not something I was arguing about. I favour the part when it is better to be able to communicate and I think it is absolutely essential, but I was rather happy that exceptions like Giani's exist and they remind us about all aspects of a coach's job.

The most boring Ech ever......none of the team are playing at their optimal level, maybe Germany is closest to its best form. It's rare for me to find a 5-set match boring.
For the individual awards, yes Kaliberda is playing good but I think Kovacevic deserved the award more as he really played a pivotal role in his team. Grankin is doing an excellent job except the final but Kampa is the second-most important factor in the complete turnaround in the semi, that I think he can be awarded the best setter.

Quote from dragon

The most boring Ech ever......none of the team are playing at their optimal level, maybe Germany is closest to its best form. It's rare for me to find a 5-set match boring.
For the individual awards, yes Kaliberda is playing good but I think Kovacevic deserved the award more as he really played a pivotal role in his team. Grankin is doing an excellent job except the final but Kampa is the second-most important factor in the complete turnaround in the semi, that I think he can be awarded the best setter.

Everyone played much better at the World League, for example this Russia and Germany would have no chances at all against Brazil, France and even Canada.( the way they played in the WL),

Quote from rbdfabio

Everyone played much better at the World League, for example this Russia and Germany would have no chances at all against Brazil, France and even Canada.( the way they played in the WL),

Who is everyone? France? France were the only team that underperformed at the ECH in comparison to the WL. I don't share your pessimism at all. Comparing a team's form in a span of, let's say, 2 months, is fine, but it isn't how it works in real life and guarantees (France) nothing. Besides, if France now win the Grand Champions Cup, it will make the ECH look way stronger, following your logic, than the WL, for instance. Who (how, when and whether) can beat Brazil is a topic for another discussion But to lose against Brazil, Canada, or USA has little to do with the level of the ECH, these 3 teams were in great shape this summer and could make anyone suffer.

Also, I disagree with the above post regarding the teams' optimal performance. Russia came pretty close to the full potential of this specific squad they sent and appeared vulnerable only when challenged in the final. Germany, as a matter of fact, overperformed and overachieved. Let's be real, they are not Europe's N2. Serbia played as good as in the WL, I am sure they are still analyzing how they dropped that comfortable advantage against Germany, though. Belgium surely came close to its potential except in the semi, Slovenia showed good things and were unlucky to play Russia twice. Poland, Italy, and Bulgaria, all 3 for different reasons, underperformed, but we can't say it wasn't expected based on their momentum and the WL signals they had sent. So if you are disappointed with some of the bigger teams, then fine, no problem, but I don't think the ECH was very bad.

Quote from YavorD

Who is everyone? France? France were the only team that underperformed at the ECH in comparison to the WL. I don't share your pessimism at all. Comparing a team's form in a span of, let's say, 2 months, is fine, but it isn't how it works in real life and guarantees (France) nothing. Besides, if France now win the Grand Champions Cup, it will make the ECH look way stronger, following your logic, than the WL, for instance. Who (how, when and whether) can beat Brazil is a topic for another discussion But to lose against Brazil, Canada, or USA has little to do with the level of the ECH, these 3 teams were in great shape this summer and could make anyone suffer.

Also, I disagree with the above post regarding the teams' optimal performance. Russia came pretty close to the full potential of this specific squad they sent and appeared vulnerable only when challenged in the final. Germany, as a matter of fact, overperformed and overachieved. Let's be real, they are not Europe's N2. Serbia played as good as in the WL, I am sure they are still analyzing how they dropped that comfortable advantage against Germany, though. Belgium surely came close to its potential except in the semi, Slovenia showed good things and were unlucky to play Russia twice. Poland, Italy, and Bulgaria, all 3 for different reasons, underperformed, but we can't say it wasn't expected based on their momentum and the WL signals they had sent. So if you are disappointed with some of the bigger teams, then fine, no problem, but I don't think the ECH was very bad.

Well a lot of people are saying the level of these ECH were super LOW....it is not just me..I did not start anything. Just look back a few posts and you will see it.

And I dont agree the final was boring. I think the final was a thriller especially the 5set.

Quote from TimHH

He actually had a lot of these "not-my-day" days in Bundesliga too and wasn't even a safe starter for Friedrichshafen. There is potential and he is still young, but imho he has to learn really quickly to survive in polish league. I am not sure he will manage to do well, unless he improves significantly.

Well I said it because he really got my attention when I watched Belgian team. Since Deroo struggled a lot and there were moments when Rousseaux took over the leadership. I think if he would come to some top polish club like Skra or Zaksa, he would have more tough times. In Olsztyn he can only gain a lot and I strongly believe in that It will be quite interesting team, anyway.
Thanks for the information about his performance in Bundesliga, I couldn't say much myself since I didn't follow, so it's sth interesting for me to note. I will keep an eye on him even more closely

Rosseaux "playing well" is just a consequence of teams preparing better to make Deroo "play bad".

I honestly would rather have Rosseaux playing better than Deroo to have his usual game.

Quote from TimHH

But in the end, most important thing is that we saw a great development with the german team in almost any volleyball related aspect and it is obvious that good work had been done in the training gym. This, in the end, is what defines a good coach more than his language skills. I think we completely agree on this.

No offense, but I'm not particularly sure what development you're talking about. It's not that I follow the German team closely but what D-land has now is a shadow of their Berlin OQT-2016 team. Very impressive defensively against Rus at the SF, fantastic teamwork - one can easily find a video on youtube. The only caveat... well, quite a big "caveat", was the condition of No9. Very predictable back in 2016 in Berlin and a major deciding factor at this ECH final. By the way, I bet that tragic world champ qualifier happened in his absence?

Quote from rbdfabio

Well a lot of people are saying the level of these ECH were super LOW....it is not just me..I did not start anything. Just look back a few posts and you will see it.

And I dont agree the final was boring. I think the final was a thriller especially the 5set.

Don't worry, no one is pointing fingers We are talking about volleyball only, after all, right? I know a lot of people are perhaps disappointed with the level, I read the previous pages and posts and I got the same impression also from other sources and media, but only here within the last two remarks I noticed the tone considering the tournament as "super low", "disgusting", "the worst ever". Although the level wasn't as great as we may have wished, this is a constant value, by the way, with the level of the game in general in the past few years, if you ask me, I still don't think the ECH was disappointing or THAT bad. I consider it OK and rather enjoyable.

Quote from powsoff

No offense, but I'm not particularly sure what development you're talking about. It's not that I follow the German team closely but what D-land has now is a shadow of their Berlin OQT-2016 team. Very impressive defensively against Rus at the SF, fantastic teamwork - one can easily find a video on youtube. The only caveat... well, quite a big "caveat", was the condition of No9. Very predictable back in 2016 in Berlin and a major deciding factor at this ECH final. By the way, I bet that tragic world champ qualifier happened in his absence?

I am of course not referring to the Berlin OQT Team but to the team we saw this summer in WCHQ and WL.

With or without Grozer, this team had looked so terrible on a lot of occasions, that i almost lost hope. It was so visible, that they had no idea what Giani wants from them, either offensively or defensively. I was not even blaming them for not qualifying against France/Belgium. A lot of other, now qualified teams, would have struggled or failed to do so. It was rather the way they performed, looked like and communicated which made me so pessimistic.

So yes, i do think that there was development which goes beyond the presence of Grozer. For example, Giani deserves credit for building a working defensive strategy around such a young and highly inexperienced libero Zenger.

This result and performance was deeeply needed to inject some positive energy again and not to completely drown in depression.