Doping in Volleyball


  • WoV says that he fails drug test :S

    How is possible none of these players' staff realize it wasn't allowed anymore ? Such an amateur behavior


    It's a pitty, cause i really like him and he had finally took his chance in NT


    Let's see what happens, i just hope a fair outcome for them, especially Sharapova ;(

  • It is a drug mainly used in Russia and ex-USSR countries. I'm not convinced of its classification as doping drug. I'm sure there is also political reasons behind it

    WADA has a good reputation as for the chemical analysis but the relevance of their "targets" to physiology is not always clear. Otherwise, WADA had caffeine and nicotine on their monitor list in 2015, they banned insulin and AICAR... I think they're overdoing. The meldonium case does look like a smart attempt of putting a gentle pressure on Putin as the drug was widely used in the sports medicine in post-USSR. That is, a political solution can't be ruled out.


    Here is something funny that I can't help sharing. The chap who synthesised meldonium back in 1970s, Ivars Kalvins, is very much defensive now, accusing various competitors, producers of carnitine supplements, for the fact that the <over the counter drug> meldonium got on the WADA taboo list. Now, there were some reports that carnitine "is important" for the red blood cell physiology back in 1990s (meldonium inhibits the production of carnitine in the organism). But otherwise, there were not many people interested in this topic and practically noone would bother researching the effects of meldonium on the organism. One marked exclusion was the lab of... Ivars Kalvins, who essentially proved that meldonium can enhance every single function of the human body, including the athlete's performance, and cure a thousand diseases. Well, proved or "proved" obviously as they sell the drug too. The bottom line is that it was the discoverer who did his best to get his baby on the WADA list - and now he's complaining.

  • So will the USA be pushing hard now for the Russian Men's volleyball team to be kicked out of the Rio Olympics? Seems the USA won't be happy until all Russians are excluded from Rio. American decline is worse than I thought, the fading of empire is so rapid. I wonder what the blow back will be on the USA? Russia must eventually return fire on the USA in this war America seems so desperate to fight(Why would the USA wants another war when they always lose them and so publicly as well).

  • So will the USA be pushing hard now for the Russian Men's volleyball team to be kicked out of the Rio Olympics? Seems the USA won't be happy until all Russians are excluded from Rio. American decline is worse than I thought, the fading of empire is so rapid. I wonder what the blow back will be on the USA? Russia must eventually return fire on the USA in this war America seems so desperate to fight(Why would the USA wants another war when they always lose them and so publicly as well).

    Seriously ... This is the most ridiculous comment I've read on this forum ... What does America has to do with the lack of professionalism and mess oft he Russian Federation ??? Oh, let me think , as an old proverb says : blame someone else of your own problems ...give me a break , Move on , and go with your absurd and nonsense rhetoric to somewhere else .


    Ps: just to clarify, this comment goes directly to the blogger who posted above post. As An American , I have a great respect for the Russian people and their strong history and culture in sports .

  • Quoted from "Emurock"
    So will the USA be pushing hard now for the Russian Men's volleyball team to be kicked out of the Rio Olympics? Seems the USA won't be happy until all Russians are excluded from Rio. American decline is worse than I thought, the fading of empire is so rapid. I wonder what the blow back will be on the USA? Russia must eventually return fire on the USA in this war America seems so desperate to fight(Why would the USA wants another war when they always lose them and so publicly as well).
    Seriously ... This is the most ridiculous comment I've read on this forum ... What does America has to do with the lack of professionalism and mess oft he Russian Federation ??? Oh, let me think , as an old proverb says : blame someone else of your own problems ...give me a break , Move on , and go with your absurd and nonsense rhetoric to somewhere else .


    Ps: just to clarify, this comment goes directly to the blogger who posted above post. As An American , I have a great respect for the Russian people and their strong history and culture in sports.


    In soccer, teams playing in UEFA competitions have had to forfeit matches when teams use illegal players on the pitch. The results of the drug tests came after the match. Do you make the Russian's play the French again, this time in France? What other recourse is there? The FIVB could say France gets in as that they played them in the Euro Qualifying Final and then send Russia back to the World Qualifying Tournament in Japan.


    The FIVB is not going to make the CEV replay the whole damn tournament on short notice.


    The Russian Sports Federation in the past (Soviet Union days) pushed the boundaries on steroids. With the current administration, they did the same thing with all of the best athletes. Look at how many sports not just volleyball got hit, figure skating, tennis, weightlifting, etc. This was a systemic problem, which is controlled by the Russian government. In the States, each of the sport federations are separate from the government. The US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) does the testing as an outside agency. Did Lance Armstrong get caught? Yes. Would it have been bad to have it happen to him, with 7 Tour de France titles and a great story of surviving cancer? Yes. However he chose to cheat and it was too good to be true.


    We are in a phase of sports where the scientists are ahead of the testers. This may have been an accident, but with so many people being caught, is it an accident or part of a coordinated system to cheat? We've seen it from Track and Field in the past with the USA and other world athletes.


  • Brain-washed by Western media... Has no idea what happens in Russia, but of course US tv has shown all the real truth... Government here wouldn't care, as they don't now. Coordinated system to cheat... Such high words! This meldronat is the most ridiculous thing to be called doping ever and yes it was US Olympic comitee who sanctioned it to be called doping, just because this medicine is so popular in post-Soviet areas. WADA is being totally in control by North-Americans, so US athletes are so rare to be tested and positive tests wouldn't get public anyway. Just a very rare ones. And of course it's a very useful political element now. All the evil in the world is coming from Russia, of course, as it has always been. But it's a law of life - the strong ones eat the weak ones, so Russian athletes have to suffer for what politicians are doing. But some bucketheads here are starting to assume that if Kosheleva is injured, she's probably using doping. Probably not everyone has to have a brain, tv pretty much does the job.


  • Brain-washed by Western media... Has no idea what happens in Russia, but of course US tv has shown all the real truth... Government here wouldn't care, as they don't now. Coordinated system to cheat... Such high words! This meldronat is the most ridiculous thing to be called doping ever and yes it was US Olympic comitee who sanctioned it to be called doping, just because this medicine is so popular in post-Soviet areas. WADA is being totally in control by North-Americans, so US athletes are so rare to be tested and positive tests wouldn't get public anyway. Just a very rare ones. And of course it's a very useful political element now. All the evil in the world is coming from Russia, of course, as it has always been. But it's a law of life - the strong ones eat the weak ones, so Russian athletes have to suffer for what politicians are doing. But some bucketheads here are starting to assume that if Kosheleva is injured, she's probably using doping. Probably not everyone has to have a brain, tv pretty much does the job.

    laughing out loud here .... Don't know why, but I knew your answer before your reply to the couple of comment regarding the Russians and their doping cases . Again, answer full of Cold War rethoric and one side think of any issue. Just one more thing , as this page is not about politics but about volleyball . Ask your self who's the truly brained - washed tho... :win:

  • But some bucketheads here are starting to assume that if Kosheleva is injured, she's probably using doping. Probably not everyone has to have a brain, tv pretty much does the job.

    I don't want you to speak about me like that. I was asking about Kosheleva's absence because her injury didn't appear so serious in first place, and Markin's story also started with missing a couple of matches without explanation. That was all.


    For the rest, I agree with voleysinfrontera. I could tell a story about Russian media's brainwash concerning German politics but it would be way too off topic.

  • Let me skip all the "brainwash" and "cold war" rhetorics for the sake of a constructive discussion. A big issue about mildronate/meldonium case is the lack of public evidence. The drug has been around for some forty years and you guys can check the US govt-funded public sources like PubMed for its effects. Now, the 2015 WADA blueprint featured one solid doping "proof" for meldonium and that was that 17% of Rus athletes had it in delectable levels in their body fluids. You would say that WADA could have spent some $Xm to ground their decision but you see WADA is not a sacred cow where "the scientists are ahead of the testers". The worldwide research community certainly is. Furthermore, mildronate is not a steroid but rather a metabolic inhibitor. It is uneasy to imagine a biochemical pathway whereby meldonium would be able to enhance the athlete's performance. Again, the drug has been around for way too long to make any serious person with a relevant background believe in such "discoveries".


    Regarding what you write about the sports boundaries being pushed by USSR/Russia, I understand your point, which is vastly correct. But then there are caveats too. E.g. such an organisation as "Russian Sports Federation" has never existed and the way you confidently state your point does prompt an influence of meldonium say a propaganda documentary. I'm not trying to say that USSR was a doping-free paradise but (and I apologise for this display of whataboutism) their rivals were hardly any better. Every pharmacologist would smile gently when s/he hears about the fastest woman in history (Joyner) and the living amphibian (Phelps). It's just that the two had smartly avoided Armstrong's mistakes. Sports is very political as it should be as a means of subliming the excessive testosterone. So no wonder that each side is excercising in "smart power" over it.

  • As we have discussions in various threads now, i thought it would be a good idea to create a new one, where we can collect and discuss all relevant information......


    Let me skip all the "brainwash" and "cold war" rhetorics for the sake of a constructive discussion. A big issue about mildronate/meldonium case is the lack of public evidence. The drug has been around for some forty years and you guys can check the US govt-funded public sources like PubMed for its effects. Now, the 2015 WADA blueprint featured one solid doping "proof" for meldonium and that was that 17% of Rus athletes had it in delectable levels in their body fluids. You would say that WADA could have spent some $Xm to ground their decision but you see WADA is not a sacred cow where "the scientists are ahead of the testers". The worldwide research community certainly is. Furthermore, mildronate is not a steroid but rather a metabolic inhibitor. It is uneasy to imagine a biochemical pathway whereby meldonium would be able to enhance the athlete's performance. Again, the drug has been around for way too long to make any serious person with a relevant background believe in such "discoveries".


    Regarding what you write about the sports boundaries being pushed by USSR/Russia, I understand your point, which is vastly correct. But then there are caveats too. E.g. such an organisation as "Russian Sports Federation" has never existed and the way you confidently state your point does prompt an influence of meldonium say a propaganda documentary. I'm not trying to say that USSR was a doping-free paradise but (and I apologise for this display of whataboutism) their rivals were hardly any better. Every pharmacologist would smile gently when s/he hears about the fastest woman in history (Joyner) and the living amphibian (Phelps). It's just that the two had smartly avoided Armstrong's mistakes. Sports is very political as it should be as a means of subliming the excessive testosterone. So no wonder that each side is excercising in "smart power" over it.

  • Now, the 2015 WADA blueprint featured one solid doping "proof" for meldonium and that was that 17% of Rus athletes had it in delectable levels in their body fluids. You would say that WADA could have spent some $Xm to ground their decision but you see WADA is not a sacred cow where "the scientists are ahead of the testers".


    You (powsoff) are right, the medical evidence might be debatable, but by their own criteria WADA doesn't necessarily need a medical evidence/proof, in order to ban a substance. Below quote, i copied from a quite interesting, rather fact based report, covering the whole Meldonium saga:


    http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2016…as-failed-drug-test-case/



    WADA criteria for banning substances


    A substance is considered for inclusion on the Prohibited List if WADA determines that it meets any two of the following three criteria:


    • There is medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological
      effect or experience that the substance or method, alone or in
      combination with other substances or methods, has the potential to
      enhance or enhances sport performance;


    • There is medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological
      effect or experience that the use of the substance or method represents
      an actual or potential health risk to the athlete;


    • That the use of the substance or method violates the spirit of sport [2].


    Given that the clinical indications for meldonium are for cardioprotective and anti-ischaemic effects, this widespread prevalence of use in an otherwise healthy athlete population is clearly not primarily for a therapeutic reason. Rather, the drug is evidently being used with the intention to either improve recovery or enhance performance – use of a substance with the intention to improve performance is, by WADA’s definition, a violation of the spirit of sport (.....).

  • As we have discussions in various threads now, i thought it would be a good idea to create a new one, where we can collect and discuss all relevant information......

    I merged all relevant information here as well, which means mostly posts from the Russian league. I hope I didn't create chaos.


  • Even better shot with teammates. Can you name three people not on the National Team in Rio? :aww:


    Good for them, that they haven't lost their sense of humour :thumbup:
    "For a sport without politics" sounds good too and obviously they are not alone in thinking so...... 8)


    Guess, who said this:


    “There is no need for politicizing or for developing any conspiracy
    theory. One should systematically, and in good time, react to decisions,
    which are taken particularly at the level of international
    organizations,”

  • WADA made a statement on "meldonium issue" and it becomes very unlikely now that Markin/Russian NT will have to face punishments.


    http://www.insidethegames.biz/…s-could-escape-punishment


    "In the case of meldonium, there is currently a lack of clear scientific information on excretion times,"


    "In these circumstances, WADA considers that there may be grounds for no fault or negligence on the part of the athlete"


    "Cases where the concentration is below 1 mcg and the test was taken before 1 March 2016 are compatible with an intake prior to January 2016."


    "If the anti-doping organisation finds that the athlete could not reasonably have known or suspected that the substance would still be present in his/her body on or after 1 January 2016, then a finding of no fault or negligence may be made."