Russia | Суперлига 2016/17

    Quote from szubudubu

    http://tvstart.ru/archive-broadcasts


    cheers guys!

    Thank you, great link. I did not know before :thumbup:


    Quote from TimHH

    I think it was 23:22 for dinamo, when Biryukov and his co-blocker had actually a nice block against Zeniths opposite. The ball was slowly going to fall down on zenith's side but then Biryukov decided to reach through under the net, almost touching the ball. The ball actually fell down on Zenith's side but the ref gave the point for Zenith. The reason was probably and rightfully "interference".

    He actually touched the ball :lol:


    http://www.worldofvolley.com/N…nking-biryukov-video.html

    Expect outcome in Surgut, Zenit's overall victory never was in danger. Surely good thing for them but I don't see that as something good for Russian volley in general. I watched almost all matches and difference between Zenit and others was big. Belgorod isn't even the shadow of team which ruled, Dynamo is struggling with bad OPP's efficiency, Loko has 6-7 players and that's it. Gazprom Ugra is total disaster, coach Kahbibulin stated "this team has bigger potential than previous ones" and he is forcing Volkov as OH :aww: Chefranov and Nosenko aren't capable to lead them. Fakel has the biggest prospect as a whole but injuries were simply too big chunck for them.

    Quote

    Expect outcome in Surgut, Zenit's overall victory never was in danger. Surely good thing for them but I don't see that as something good for Russian volley in general. I watched almost all matches and difference between Zenit and others was big. Belgorod isn't even the shadow of team which ruled, Dynamo is struggling with bad OPP's efficiency, Loko has 6-7 players and that's it. Gazprom Ugra is total disaster, coach Kahbibulin stated "this team has bigger potential than previous ones" and he is forcing Volkov as OH :aww:Chefranov and Nosenko aren't capable to lead them. Fakel has the biggest prospect as a whole but injuries were simply too big chunck for them.

    Actually many things are the other way round. Volkov plays OH because he decided to: he publicly said it was his dream and thanked Khabibullin for giving him the chance - which, I agree, doesn't always work. Ugra needs an opp like Bakun to get things up and running, they do have a leader (Rodichev).


    For Dinamo opps this season started a bit slow but if you had a chance to watch their semi vs Zenit, the opp (Bakun) was their only reliable side-out option. You may think I'm joking but they actually have a better roster this year. Bakun to me doesn't look any worse than Zaytsev and I wouldn't call Ostapenko a bad replacement for Holt. But at the mo Dinamo is in possession of four
    OK-ish OHs (bought Ilinykh and had Biryukov recovered) and a decent second setter (Antipkin). They won't need to take their starting six to e.g. Orengurg just to commute to e.g. Belgium next day. They were right to re-appoint Marichev as Antonov/Yakovlev were... not bad-bad but could have avoided several tie-breaks last season.


    Belgorod also improved in terms of roster vs last year. They made a mistake by selling Antipkin to Dinamo but brought back Zhigalov and signed Podlesnykh and Yereshenko, both are very able chaps. You would (correctly) argue, there's little point in shuffling so many positions and then struggling for half of the season. Belgorod have always had a strange attitude to long-term planning. They are very provincially minded with relaxed nepotism and hardcore parochialism being the default features.


    Fakel is in trouble, not just because they have three main players with serious injuries but they've actually screwed up with the opp this year. The chap last year (Turin) was an OK opp but not the world-class. Their young prodigy Pirainen who is their main opp this year fails to impress so far. Fakel just hope for Volkov-Klyuka to recover otherwise things may get dire. By the way things are better with Vlasov's position as they have several very able subs in there.


    Novosibirsk has historically never had a long bench as they were always a spot No4 team, which assumed to Euro-cups. Their best performances were achieved using people like Leonenko and Dubrovin as OHs back in 2010/11 - who are these chaps you would say. Loko would have a couple of talented benchers but those would normally be serving specialists like Zhilin or Voronkov. Their budget oscillated from year to year and things looked quite scary last year but this year the disaster isn't there so far. Shoji-libero has been apparently extended till the end of the year and Pavlov looks more or less fit.


    Overall, Kazan is a favourite to win everything this year but a one-off loss can't be ruled out, which may come e.g. during F6. They had a very tight semi with Dinamo and well lost a set to Novosibirsk during the cup. Will depend on their shape in the new year.

    I based my opinion on Superleague + F6 in Surgut.


    I know Volkov decieded to try as OH but I'm sure Khabibulin wouldnt put him if he has better solution. Ursov didnt adjust on Superleague level yet, Semyshev is injured as well as Semenov. For me there is little possibility to see Volkov as a starter in future as he is the weakest link in Gazprom Ugra as OH. Fully agree they need quality OPP but I doubt Khabibulin will acquire another player after signing Volkov and Semenov in "overtime".


    Belgorod maybe improved in terms of depth but not in quality. Kosarev is constantly rotating Podlesnykh, Khtey, Fomenko on OH and Zhigalov and Danilov on OPP. I don't see stability on setter position as well so they lack consistency. Iereshchenko is the best move by Belgorod this season, even Teryomenko is bad at all, and Dima is the best player without any doubt. Regarding their long term plansyou know better than me :)


    I was surprised to see they left Tyurin and stayed only on unexperienced Pirainen and Evseev. On other side I understant their policy as they are orientated on own young players. I see injuries as their main problem as Kluyka and Volkov came dead tired from Rio, Bogdan was also injured, now Vlasov, Bezrukov (?), Volkov while Kluyka is having knee problems. Vlasov's absence is good covered by Yakovlev but they lack firepower on wing positions.


    I know very well who are Leonenko and Dubrovin ;) In fact I can name starting six to all Superleague club coz I'm following closely for years. Even Visshaya league ;) Loko are clear overachievers to me. Diviš isn't stabile at all, Savin is their "locomotive" and I've to point out brilliant Kurkaev :obey: In general I'm not impressed with them.


    Zenit lost set to Loko indeed but their victory was never in danger. For me domination doesnt necessarily mean 3:0 victories, deconcentration does not avoid even the best teams but Zenit was superior. Loss can happen, it's sport but everything except new title for Tatarstan side would be huuuge surprise.


    In brief, the goss was that the mother company with some complex name (Gaz-bla-bla-bla-something) is up to move from Surgut, so Khabibullin is seriously into cutting the budget AKA looking for young talents. I don't know where Volkov will be as OH in half a year. (Jumping ahead, I have to say exactly the same regarding Podlesnykh of Belgorod). It's a useful exercise for him and Ugra is definitely less ambitious this year so can afford losing a bit.


    Belgorod have a mental disorder as you can easily see. Rather than shuffling the players in random order they need some sort of a plan. I might be wrong but whenever I look at their (current) coach Kosarev I think he lacks... not eloquent talking or deep analysis but rather a baseball bat, which would go very well with Sasha's enlightened face, trendy haircut and vintage trackies. My feeling is that this free flight is not going to last long so the chap will have to inevitably pitch something like Poroshin-Zhigalov, Muserskiy-Smolyar, Yereshenko-Podlesnykh (and poss Obmochaev if they sign him) and let the guys play together a game - two -three, after which things will inevitably go better. There is no way things can get worse as many players are performing way below their average thanks to this shuffling strategy. I have to admit that this shuffling is a proper way to do things in some kind of a Sunday league when all the chaps get to touch the ball and then everyone just grabs a pint or two around the corner and watches sports on the telly. There's no good beer in Belgorod otherwise Belogorie would have ended up right there.


    With Fakel, it was a bit of a bizarre. They (correctly) figured out that Tyurin was their weakest link last year. A powerful side-outer from zone two would have put them higher in every competition they took part in so the decision was to "strengthen" this position. Pirainen didn't look bad-bad last season and Fakel has a clear belief in the youth overall so the expectation was fairly high. Now Tyurin is gone... and here we go, playing without an opp.


    I have a feeling that people overall are a bit tired of having the same president champion every now and then. There should be an F6 in the end, which is highly likely to include the same teams as in Surgut but Kuzbass instead of Ugra. Someone needs to start serving well to kick Kazan out. An impossible task for a best of five series but quite a realistic scenario for a knock-out game. Just need to practice and improve.

    I didnt know Gazprom's budget is slashed... I suspected but didn't have official information, thx :drink: And some things related to Belgorod are much clearer now :) But it's a bit shock for me after all succeses they had in the past :rolll:


    I really like NOVA this season, Bryansky is doing nice work there with rather unknown players (not to me) and Alexeev is really impressing. On other side Yenisey with Spiridonov, Vinčič, Nikolov, Mochalov is the biggest disappointment and I'm curious how come Cherednik isn't sacked yet ?( OK, they had a couple unluckily defeats but this team belongs in TOP 6 for sure.

    Quote from powsoff


    In brief, the goss was that the mother company with some complex name (Gaz-bla-bla-bla-something) is up to move from Surgut, so Khabibullin is seriously into cutting the budget AKA looking for young talents. I don't know where Volkov will be as OH in half a year. (Jumping ahead, I have to say exactly the same regarding Podlesnykh of Belgorod). It's a useful exercise for him and Ugra is definitely less ambitious this year so can afford losing a bit.


    Belgorod have a mental disorder as you can easily see. Rather than shuffling the players in random order they need some sort of a plan. I might be wrong but whenever I look at their (current) coach Kosarev I think he lacks... not eloquent talking or deep analysis but rather a baseball bat, which would go very well with Sasha's enlightened face, trendy haircut and vintage trackies. My feeling is that this free flight is not going to last long so the chap will have to inevitably pitch something like Poroshin-Zhigalov, Muserskiy-Smolyar, Yereshenko-Podlesnykh (and poss Obmochaev if they sign him) and let the guys play together a game - two -three, after which things will inevitably go better. There is no way things can get worse as many players are performing way below their average thanks to this shuffling strategy. I have to admit that this shuffling is a proper way to do things in some kind of a Sunday league when all the chaps get to touch the ball and then everyone just grabs a pint or two around the corner and watches sports on the telly. There's no good beer in Belgorod otherwise Belogorie would have ended up right there.

    Thanks for the information, first of all! It always helps to get an overview/opinion from a native person.


    I got interested in the Belgorod topic because it is a club I like and have followed since I started watching volleyball. You shared once that they must've suffered from money decrease about 2 years ago when they had to let Grozer go. There used to be moments when they were probably OK financially and they could recruit some good/decent foreigners. Now your opinion is also very interesting and several of those things crossed my mind already this season when I watched the team struggle. However, what I wanted to ask is - aren't those issues discussed in Russia/Belgorod? Aren't there interviews/articles with facts? Not because I rule them out as options but because they often sound like personal hypotheses. Like, don't we know for certain why they experiment, why they don't hire a normal coach, how they choose players, or what Shipulin thinks about this? I don't find facts often, even if I try to translate Russian sources from time to time.


    I know your style of writing already and I totally get the joke with the mental disorder but this is one of Russia's most successful clubs, after all. You can't dominate European and world volleyball like they used to unless you had a strategy. What I most admire about them is that they produce/buy/develop/loan talented Russian youngsters, or let's call them less known players if they are not all that young, and rely on them even if it doesn't always bring results. Perhaps they might lack a plan this year, I don't know, but it would be unprofessional (unthinkable) if they do, hence I ask if there are interviews with those in charge. The reason for this year's weird choices might be the experiments mostly with head coaches, in my opinion (the area they experiment the most with, not with players), so perhaps it is Kosarev's fault.

    There is another issue in Russian volleyball that has grabbed my attention recently and is, in my opinion, worth discussing. Perhaps someone with more information could pop up and join in. What's with the television coverage this season? Major (sports) channels seem to have lost the rights/contract/interest to broadcast the league. We have to rely on that small Start program which shows a lot of matches but with often doubtful quality. Is it a consequence of something that had happened in Russian volleyball or Russia in general? Russian football league is very well televised internationally, other sports perhaps as well. Is it a case with volleyball only?

    Quote from YavorD

    There is another issue in Russian volleyball that has grabbed my attention recently and is, in my opinion, worth discussing. Perhaps someone with more information could pop up and join in. What's with the television coverage this season? Major (sports) channels seem to have lost the rights/contract/interest to broadcast the league. We have to rely on that small Start program which shows a lot of matches but with often doubtful quality. Is it a consequence of something that had happened in Russian volleyball or Russia in general? Russian football league is very well televised internationally, other sports perhaps as well. Is it a case with volleyball only?


    In Russia, the volleyball league has never been televised to the level nearly comparable with football or ice hockey. There was a chance to see a central game of the tour on the TV but not much more than that. In this way, nothing has changed. The major change was the arrival of MatchTV to the sports media scene - they seem to have their own priorities. Football or ice hockey are easier to sell in Russia. Don't forget about the football world cup-2018, which is a major problem for all non-football sports.

    Quote from powsoff

    In Russia, the volleyball league has never been televised to the level nearly comparable with football or ice hockey. There was a chance to see a central game of the tour on the TV but not much more than that. In this way, nothing has changed. The major change was the arrival of MatchTV to the sports media scene - they seem to have their own priorities. Football or ice hockey are easier to sell in Russia. Don't forget about the football world cup-2018, which is a major problem for all non-football sports.

    Well, they don't show volleyball anymore, even that one televised match is now gone, so something has changed, right? Besides, what I still don't get is why the competitors of MatchTV ceased their interest in, let's say, other sports, even if we ignore volleyball and the barely broadcast local league. More sports channels usually means more sports to watch. Anyway, thanks for the answer.

    Dynamo Krasnodar boycotted match with Yenisey, therefore match is registered for guests with 0:25, 0:25, 0:25. Dynamo probably wont finish season at all because players haven't recieved salaries for 7 months :down:

    Quote from YavorD


    Thanks for the information, first of all! It always helps to get an overview/opinion from a native person.


    I got interested in the Belgorod topic because it is a club I like and have followed since I started watching volleyball. You shared once that they must've suffered from money decrease about 2 years ago when they had to let Grozer go. There used to be moments when they were probably OK financially and they could recruit some good/decent foreigners. Now your opinion is also very interesting and several of those things crossed my mind already this season when I watched the team struggle. However, what I wanted to ask is - aren't those issues discussed in Russia/Belgorod? Aren't there interviews/articles with facts? Not because I rule them out as options but because they often sound like personal hypotheses. Like, don't we know for certain why they experiment, why they don't hire a normal coach, how they choose players, or what Shipulin thinks about this? I don't find facts often, even if I try to translate Russian sources from time to time.


    One may find this to be a very delayed reply - better late than never :)
    You see, there are facts and there are articles where Shipulin openly speaks his mind - and there's quite a bit of coherence from article to article. The facts are that Belgorod went through several head coaches who were officially referred as Assistant Coaches as Shipulin has always been a formal boss. (Shipulin himself has never been a volleyball expert, as one may think, from what I know his expertise lies in the field of driving the bus.) Once again, there were various coaches in Belgorod like Zaytsev, Panchenko, Gajic however it was Kolchin who was the shadow figure behind all three Belgorod's CEV ChL titles. I have to say, all coaches departed badly, every time there were funny comments. Shipulin would publicly talk about "treason", "incompetence" etc. He was pretty angry when Kolchin left (I think) in 2004 to Dinamo Msk. Although Kolchin came back to Belgorod in 2012-15, I doubt he's ever been forgiven. In 2015, they just didn't extend his contract. Then they called him back after the pre-season and then kicked out again and appointed Khamuttkikh.


    If you ask why Belgorod employs their veterans as head coaches, I would say I don't know for sure but Shipulin used to mention openly and publicly that he "is prepared to transfer his club to his boys". I assume it is his views and decisions.


    Quote from YavorD


    I know your style of writing already and I totally get the joke with the mental disorder but this is one of Russia's most successful clubs, after all. You can't dominate European and world volleyball like they used to unless you had a strategy. What I most admire about them is that they produce/buy/develop/loan talented Russian youngsters, or let's call them less known players if they are not all that young, and rely on them even if it doesn't always bring results. Perhaps they might lack a plan this year, I don't know, but it would be unprofessional (unthinkable) if they do, hence I ask if there are interviews with those in charge. The reason for this year's weird choices might be the experiments mostly with head coaches, in my opinion (the area they experiment the most with, not with players), so perhaps it is Kosarev's fault.


    Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to say that Belgorod are good or bad - they just are what they are. Nice people and relaxed in many ways but not without their local sympathies and parochialism. The only two boys grown by Belgorod from the very start to the very end top flight level are Sergei Bagrey and Roman Danilov. E.g. Tetyukhin joined the club together with his dad (who coaches youth teams) at the age of 16 - easy to see he was already a capable player by then. Belgorod definitely helps players to grow, no doubts - but if you ask why Bagrey and Danilov get the spot in the roster, why Khtey (Shipulin's son-in-law) is on the pitch - there can be multiple answers to that :).


    I have mentioned above that Belgorod is sometimes kind of inconsistent with their head coaches. They were however very good at scouting (Muserskiy alone is worth a lot!). At the same time, think about foreign players they signed within last several years - who of them managed to play a full season or two? The only decent hit was Grozer - and that was a case with a strange goodbye. Otherwise there were cases like that of Spajic (considered unfit), Sintini, Kampa, Kurnetas, Storozhilov etc - one would wonder what these people are thinking about before signing those players. Do they not watch them play before offering them contracts? At the same time, Belgorod easily released some less star-studded but quite important players like Antipkin, Panteleymonenko, Makarov, I would also add Ivovic here. Clearly they're approached early in the season by various rivals but I'm positive so is Muserskiy. My vision is that this is a normal relaxed attitude of a bombastic volleyball animal - whoever we sign/release in the beginning of the season, things will get OK by the beginning of the play-offs so we can grab a title/silverware etc.


    Let us take it further. This very relaxed attitude is sometimes brought to the court. They were absolutely unstoppable in 2013/14 season, destroyed Zenit in ChL before winning it. Then the Fed decided to help Belgorod up to prepare for the World Club Champ and reformatted the domestic championship into the F6. In which the all-star Belgorod managed to lose to Zenit in the semi (3:1). Belgorod blamed this to the luck/shape of Viktor Poletaev who replaced the injured Mikhaylov. My feeling though is that was a clear lack of concentration - they won the title a year ago, they won two or three cups already this year, that's enough. One could see the same business in their performance vs Novosibirsk in the domestic cup semi in 2014 and vs Halkbank in the ChL play-offs. I don't think that the message to win in every competition they play is delivered very well in Belgorod. And this is where they end up - gave away a "needless" home title to (a troubled) Kazan in spring 2014 and in the autumn Kazan had Leon and the title became way less needless.


    Obviously I need to mention that this way of local thinking has a nice side too. The club enjoys the support of an army of local fans (Belgorod has no decent football/basketball/ice hockey teams, the only other local sport highlight being an artistic gymnast Svetlana Khorkina). My other feeling is that Belgorod was one of the biggest contributors into the success of Alekno's team in 2011-12, having delegated new blood like Muserskiy and Biryukov into the NT. The new blood soon essentially ended up on the bench in their team, giving the way to the evergreen Tetyukhin-Khtey duo.

    Zenit Kazan is just unstoppable. I admire so much that all these top-level players are playing and enjoying volleyball together, which means every player on the team actually feels easier to play when they have each other to rely on. No wonder Matt Anderson renewed his contract with the club.


    Kuzbass was so close to cause one loss for Zenit, but the tiebreaker simply showed Zenit's domination again. Dinamo Moscow was doing great in challenging Zenit as well, but too bad they continued their record of losing to Kazan. :white:


    Quick Qs :?: : Will there be playoffs this season? Or is Russian Superleague adopting last year's format instead?


    I think there will be an F6