Women's World Grand Prix 2017

  • A lot of people wants to think Serbia and China are the same team from Rio, but they are not.


    Both teams are missing "key" players.


    Without Maja, Serbia is a different team. She was probably the most important player, and Antojevic just joined the team after how many years? Takes a while for her to set a good connection with her hitters, and takes a while for the hitters to set a good connection with her.


    Zivkovic was there but she never got a lot of playing time.


    Another key player Popovic - Serbia played with Pusic and Blagojevic played as libero for the first time. We all know how important the libero is.


    And even Brakocevic and Nikolic were important players to have on the bench, and Nikolic was the leader of the team.


    Also Malargurski and Bjelica getting actually play time after many years.


    And just like any other team they tried new players as well, Milenkovic, Pusic, Busa is still young. And remember in the preliminary round Boskovic only played against China, and before that Malargurski and Bjelica got the job done.


    Same thing goes to China, they don`t have their Captain anymore, the experienced Wei, Xu Yunlin and Yan NI. And lot of these new players are just around 19 and 20 years old.

  • As for China, They will be back in September for the grand champion cup :super:

  • Hi, im new here, and i spent sometime looking all the comments, so... i dont like so much to quote anyone words, i dont know, i think i wont use this quote button ever, lol, but...
    At first people was calling Brasil as a underdog at the grandprix... Hum, sorry but i want to know who was the top teams of this tournament? It was a great tournament because we had 5, 6, 7 teams able to beat the each others! Brasil won the powerfull Servia 2 times, but for the first time lose Thailand, 0-3, and after many yers to Japan 2-3... Sorry but i cant see any favourite, even china and servia with its A squads, able to assume the great team position by its on. I saw teams doing experiences with players, Brasil and USA putting lots of new faces to play... I think people has to study more about volleyball and learn that its a colective game, with 7 players acting all the time and other 7 ant the bech given all support needed. Put this or that team as a favourite just for one player talent or stas is so inocent and silly...
    And talking about superplayers... I used to look all the stats tables after the games to view how the players are playing to... And the numbers of Boscovic and Egonu are so similar of others players... They are tall, with good moviments to attack, great velocity to aproach the ball's time, great reach, strong at the spik force.. People used to say: WOWWWW 30 points at the game!!!! Ok, 30 points in 80, 90 actions... Rate by 35 30 40 % ... Talking abou Brasil we had Nat, Tandara, Rosamaria, doing 10, 15, sometimes 20 points in a game, but with rate between 45 60 % ... Babies, to win a team dont need one superplayer, to win a team needs to be A TEAM. And, in my poor opinion, i think Nat Tandara and Rosa are superplayers... They arent so tall, ok, they are strong, but they able to play as op ou oh, with good performance in pass and defense... I'd love to see Boscovic working well in pass, runinin to attack and doing 30 points at the end... Natalia does.
    I think people needs idols to be inpired. Our idols here in Brasil is our colective soul. Its win championships. Single players not.
    About brazilian players... Gabi is recovering of a medium knee injury... Jucy is in a recovering time too... Dani is in a baby plan... Fe Garay is getting a rest... Fabiana and Sheilla are retired and Thaisa is a big doubt... Some players could return to WGCC, as Garay, Jucy and Gabi. I dont know if Thaisa will return in the next year, but i think Dani will certanly do....


    Brazil wouldn't even be in the final if not for China saving their skins. :whistle:



    Collective firepower is good but there will always be a limit to everything just like there is a limit to a super player taking on too much responsibility as attacker.. The same is true for both. That's just the reality of life. Teams always need to find the balance in order to win.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • OK, I found how much each team made with the Grand Prix.


    https://volleymob.com/final-pr…le-2017-world-grand-prix/


    Brazil made U$$ 785 K - That is a lot of money and every player takes a share of this money, considering the Brazilian Real is 2x more, The Brazilian are all :D .


    Group 1 Monies Breakdown



    Preliminary Rounds (each pool)
    1st Place$80,000.00
    2nd Place$60,000.00
    3rd Place$45,000.00
    4th Place$30,000.00



    Final Round
    1st Place$600,000.00
    2nd Place$300,000.00
    3rd Place$200,000.00.
    4th Place$100,000.00
    5th Place$50,000.00
    6th Place$50,000.00



    Individual Awards Final Round
    Best Opposite$5,000.00
    Best Outside Spiker$5,000.00
    Best Outside Spiker$5,000.00
    Best Middle Blocker$5,000.00
    Best Middle Blocker$5,000.00
    Best Libero$5,000.00
    Best Setter$5,000.00
    MVP$15,000.00


  • That's a big upgrade from the previous tournament.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • Can someone from China explain me what on earth is going on? The social media pages of most Italian players are full of obscenities written by Chinese "fans". Even the players who didn't set a foot on court. :white:

  • Brazil wouldn't even be in the final if not for China saving their skins. :whistle:



    Collective firepower is good but there will always be a limit to everything just like there is a limit to a super player taking on too much responsibility as attacker.. The same is true for both. That's just the reality of life. Teams always need to find the balance in order to win.

    Yes, im quoting lol
    Lets talk about to save skins.... I think China wants to win, just it... They could give some rest for some players, they could give some rhythm for other players... they could think: ok, 10 14, we are first of group, ok, lets give it up and think about semifinal... But they DIDNT. This is about China wants, not about Brasil skin. If Holand wasnt able to catch the place at the semifinal isnt Brasil responsible or not able to do that... This kind of thinking looks like a baby crying for the 4th place of China or the win of Brasil...
    And about collective fire power... baby, please!!! Theres not limit to collective firepower!!!! A team with lot of players with good skills and hight firepower will dance at the court against every team who try to play with other kind of system of game... Remeber Cuba? Oh yeah, people doenst like to rembember Cuba at all... So try to remeber Brasil 2008... I never will choose Egonu or Boscovic in spite of Paula, Mari or Sheilla, because, even not making 30 points, i think this ones are much better in attack than them.... And just to example: the last time Brasil try to play with one tallent doing the major acts, Mari does 37 points against Russian block, in a olympic semifinal, and we have till today a 19 24 and 12 14 in your minds and no medal at our necks...

  • Th

    Yes, im quoting lol
    Lets talk about to save skins.... I think China wants to win, just it... They could give some rest for some players, they could give some rhythm for other players... they could think: ok, 10 14, we are first of group, ok, lets give it up and think about semifinal... But they DIDNT. This is about China wants, not about Brasil skin. If Holand wasnt able to catch the place at the semifinal isnt Brasil responsible or not able to do that... This kind of thinking looks like a baby crying for the 4th place of China or the win of Brasil...
    And about collective fire power... baby, please!!! Theres not limit to collective firepower!!!! A team with lot of players with good skills and hight firepower will dance at the court against every team who try to play with other kind of system of game... Remeber Cuba? Oh yeah, people doenst like to rembember Cuba at all... So try to remeber Brasil 2008... I never will choose Egonu or Boscovic in spite of Paula, Mari or Sheilla, because, even not making 30 points, i think this ones are much better in attack than them.... And just to example: the last time Brasil try to play with one tallent doing the major acts, Mari does 37 points against Russian block, in a olympic semifinal, and we have till today a 19 24 and 12 14 in your minds and no medal at our necks...


    The fact remains that this WGP could've gone either way for Brazil. They were basically 4 match points away from being eliminated. Even I believe Netherlands is a better team than Brazil in this WGP and that's without Sloetjes on board. I am a brazil fan but I am not delusional. Admitting that fact already hurts. :whistle:


    And btw... USA fans will tell you other wise. They still haven't win the olympics yet despite having a great system and being the favorites for the past two cycles. Collectivism has benefits but so does individuality. Individuality provides distinction from others while collectivism can sometimes be considered too mechanical. In the end it is all about putting the pieces together to achieve the best results.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • And collectivism is usually inflexible. With individualism... A team can shift from working as a team to relying on a single player and vice versa. With collectivism... When you do not have a single player who can be that go-to player... You're going to have a lot of problems especially during out of system usually when the pass is not that exceptional. That's my take btw.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • Hey, pleaseeeee... Netherlands better than Brasil in this WGP? What are we talking about? water polo?!?!?!?! Brasil payed two times against Netherlands and win this two games... The reason why u choose netherlands, u think egonu and boscovic are incredible players, and u think USA was, and will always be, the favorite for everything is simple: nothing about the south will be good enought for u... And just more one thing... u call individuality what i prefer to call tallent. Collectivism is the way ind a collective sport. And in this land, a team with tallent players acting with collective spirit will have better results...

  • Hey, pleaseeeee... Netherlands better than Brasil in this WGP? What are we talking about? water polo?!?!?!?! Brasil payed two times against Netherlands and win this two games... The reason why u choose netherlands, u think egonu and boscovic are incredible players, and u think USA was, and will always be, the favorite for everything is simple: nothing about the south will be good enought for u... And just more one thing... u call individuality what i prefer to call tallent. Collectivism is the way ind a collective sport. And in this land, a team with tallent players acting with collective spirit will have better results...


    If you haven't seen the trend... A lot of the european teams are becoming stronger than the last Olympic quad. Complacency kills and I don't want Brazil to go through that.


    This is just the first year before Tokyo Olympics and a lot will change so don't be secure. Even Brazil's head coach ZRG said they were lucky to get the win and China did help along the way according to him.


    Oh and btw without Zhu Ting and Kim Yeonkoung... Do you really believe China would've won the olympics and that South Korea can actually qualify ahead of a more team-based NT like Thailand? :whistle:

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • It's inconsequential really to argue about what is most important or how Brazil won, because there are lots of extraneous variables which influence all these things - and in sport, it is usually a matter of everything coming together at the right time - hence why you could have in Tennis a relatively unknown Ostapenko, who's never won a title, come to the French open and win it. Similarly, not a lot of people, I'm sure including Guimares himself, expected that win for Brazil - but everything came together at the right time - they made it to the semis, and put enough pressure on Serbia, the favourites, and took them out. Even then, it helped that Natalia and Tandara, key players ,were able to raise their level and give confidence to the team - so everything worked out well. Same thing in the final, a key tactic here and there, the right level of motivation and concentration and passion form the team, etc all worked together to produce that third set and the match.


    Sometimes the comments on here make it seems like there is only on player in a team - sure there are key players in a match, but volleyball requires 3 touches, so input of three individuals to make one point, equally six players on the other side to mount a suitable defence. If you give Boskovic or Zhu Ting every set in a match, those teams won't win matches - it takes everyone else creating the opportunities for them to make as many points as they can - and even then, you can still lose, you still need the other variables, the coaching, the other team making mistakes or playing below their best, etc etc,


    In a nutshell, its not about one thing or the other

  • It's inconsequential really to argue about what is most important or how Brazil won, because there are lots of extraneous variables which influence all these things - and in sport, it is usually a matter of everything coming together at the right time - hence why you could have in Tennis a relatively unknown Ostapenko, who's never won a title, come to the French open and win it. Similarly, not a lot of people, I'm sure including Guimares himself, expected that win for Brazil - but everything came together at the right time - they made it to the semis, and put enough pressure on Serbia, the favourites, and took them out. Even then, it helped that Natalia and Tandara, key players ,were able to raise their level and give confidence to the team - so everything worked out well. Same thing in the final, a key tactic here and there, the right level of motivation and concentration and passion form the team, etc all worked together to produce that third set and the match.


    Sometimes the comments on here make it seems like there is only on player in a team - sure there are key players in a match, but volleyball requires 3 touches, so input of three individuals to make one point, equally six players on the other side to mount a suitable defence. If you give Boskovic or Zhu Ting every set in a match, those teams won't win matches - it takes everyone else creating the opportunities for them to make as many points as they can - and even then, you can still lose, you still need the other variables, the coaching, the other team making mistakes or playing below their best, etc etc,


    In a nutshell, its not about one thing or the other


    I believe no one's arguing that one player can win you matches alone but more about a team relying on a system that involves everybody to make points vs a team that has a clear go-to-scorer.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • Brazil wouldn't even be in the final if not for China saving their skins.


    And if Ned had won vs Brazil, they would have got the semifinal directly in the first match and bye bye to Brazil :whistle:
    See, I can play the 'if' game too, thanks for teaching me! :D



    I never will choose Egonu or Boscovic in spite of Paula, Mari or Sheilla, because, even not making 30 points, i think this ones are much better in attack than them....


    Give to the girls sometimes to grow before comparing them to these players ;)
    It makes sense to compare one another, but at the moment imho it's quite normal if they loss the paragone vs experienced champions.


    And I'm saying that being a person that loves technical and all around players.

  • With individualism... A team can shift from working as a team to relying on a single player and vice versa. With collectivism... When you do not have a single player who can be that go-to player... You're going to have a lot of problems especially during out of system usually when the pass is not that exceptional. That's my take btw.


    That's a very interesting point which I mostly share.
    The single 'champion' is the one that in the difficult moments can step up and carry the team. If you don't have these kind of players is more difficult to keep breathing when the team start to sink. Obviously he can't do anything alone (except may be on serve).
    Still, it can also happen that a team which has several strong but 'regular' players can rely in different hard circumstances on different players.


    And in this land, a team with tallent players acting with collective spirit will have better results...


    Well, that's the discovery of hot water :P
    If you have individual talent + a team that works well collectively and with a fighting spirit you're generally stronger than a team which has only one of these two characteristic.
    If I have to chose among the two, I prefer the second one: a game based on team work rather then a game which rely a lot on one/few champions. But if I can have both I'm happier :rolll:

  • Can someone from China explain me what on earth is going on? The social media pages of most Italian players are full of obscenities written by Chinese "fans". Even the players who didn't set a foot on court.

    Stop screaming blue murder and don't be so hypocritical. There were hate comments and obscenities from the Italian "fans" in the social media as well when China had beaten Italy in 2014. Where were your indignation when the Italian fans behave badly? I don't care where they are from but I hate all those sore loser fans. I went to Paula Egonu and Cristina Chririchella's facebook , their Instagram and their twitter to see how "serious" those obscenities and I found none. I'm not sure if you're making up such story, just for the sake of playing victim.

  • I don't think I've ever used my "ifs" to contradict myself.
    :whistle:


    Reality is Brazil was almost about to be eliminated until China saved their skin. Reality is Brazil won the WGP in a complicated manner that almost got them eliminated in the pool phase of the final round. Did I ever contradicted myself with my ifs? I don't think I've ever challenged that fact.


    :whistle:


    But you on the other hand...


    Playing the" if "game that Netherlands would've still lost anyway to China if it was the first game was your fatal flaw. Well, we're now looking for a new alternate universe that doesn't exist so your narrative can be in terms with your opinion. :whistle:


    I understand that this silly little fight between us started from my sympathy to China for losing to Italy due to an injury of Zhu Ting for seeing that Italy got some big break because of that. I don't even know why you're being argumentative about that. Just so childish imo.


    You need to chill with your fanboyism. I don't think my opinion is going to take Italy's precious silver medal away from your country which they quite frankly deserve for beating the teams they beat just like Brazil in the final round. :drink:


    EDIT: Anyway... What's wrong with luck? Doesn't mean the team is no good when a team gets a big break from a misfortune of the other team. Sports has share of that and it's something you have to exploit. It's nothing to be ashamed of. it would be really more embarrassing if you don't. It means you're really bad that even luck cannot save you. :gone:

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

    Edited 2 times, last by Rains_of_Castamere ().

  • argue all you want, but I agree when someone says Brazil is the best ALL AROUND team in this tournament. the kills distribution is almost fair, with Tandara, Natalia, Rosamaria contributing. then we have Ade and Bia who are both monsters at the net. And Roberta, who imo, is the best setter this final round has.


    volleyball is a team sport. when you have 7 players (plus libero) that know their roles and play their role accordingly, then you don't need one superplayer. I am not saying having a superplayer is a bad thing (it clearly works for Korea and Italy) but I prefer a more all around team. having more lethal attackers means the game will not be predictable. The middle blockers will be on his/her feet all the time trying to guess where the setter is going to set the ball. this is what happened back then when Brazil has Sheila/Mari/Paula trio. it is a huge advantage because the team will be able to do combination plays and what not.


    having a super player is also a huge advantage because when you have that one intimidating player, everyone will be on their feet watching for that player, and that is already a psychological advantage. however, the team needs to make sure this super player will not be exhausted/choke during the crucial moment -- like Egonu did. when your number one player is on the down low, who is going to pick up the pieces? yes, she is young and she still has a lot of volleyball years ahead of her, but we also have to take consideration of physiological response. having to swing around 70 to 100 balls per match, continuously will do harm to your body in the long run. it scares me to think if things going to be like this for years to come, Egonu will not last long. hopefully her conditioning sports coach understands her value and her talent and so developing her physical accordingly.


    this is my opinion only because i was obsessed with Brazil's best golden triangle era. that is why i always treasure OH that can defend and attack at high intensity like Tom Logan and Sokolova during their prime.

  • so according to the statistic, both bia and adenizia were in the top 3 of best blockers, and rasic was at 5. maybe rasic has higher kill precentage that ade which is why she was named best mb alongside bia.


    just watch the rematch of the final and i noticed one small detail. on the 1st set, when the point was 25-24, Roberta went to the left side of the court, leaving Natalia on the right side of the court -- similar to what Fenerbahce always do to keep Nootsara, the small blocker from going against a taller hitter. this time it was to avoid Roberta from going against Egonu who is hitting at position 4.

  • Mari appears in 2004, with 19 yo... Sheilla in 2002, in WC, with something about 18 yo... In 2005 with something about 20 21 yo they won all the major tournaments against the Athenas' Olympic Champion China, at this moment complete, with y hao, feng k et all... Im not saying the girls are bad players, they are so impressive, ok, but, in my opinios, i think they are so superestimaded.... Just time will show to us how good they are, but at this moment of career i think Sheilla and Mari were better than them... Paula suffered with lot of injuries, as Jaque too, at the beginning of carrer, but Mari and Sheilla were incredible.
    Congrats about talking of the colective needs of a sport like volleyball... Skills doesnt means hit the ball taller, faster or stronger... I think, even being a player with medium physical bio, to have skills is the habilitie to put the ball on the floor, at the right time, despite how strong your oponent is.