CEV Men’s European Championship 2019 - hosts France, Slovenia, Belgium and the Netherlands

  • 6 groups consisting of 4 teams. We're gonna have every team playing 3 matches in the group so there will be 6 (3+2+1) matches for every group, thus 36 matches overall in the group stage. The 12 first two teams from each group and the best four third placed teams will qualify to the 8Fs. So the elimination round will be 16 (8+4+2+1+1) matches (including the match for the third place). So overall, we'll have 52 (36+16) matches in the Olympics.


    Now let's see how's the current format: two groups consisting of 6 teams. During the group stage there are 15 matches for each group, therefore 30 matches during the group stage. The elimination round is 8 matches (4+2+1+1) with including the third place match. So considering the current format there will be 38 matches, and in the suggested format it'll be 52.


    So I don't see how it's "unrealistic" as you mentioned. 14 more matches wouldn't be so much that we can go as far as calling it impossible and unrealistic. The group stage can be done in one week and the other next week the elimination round begins. Doesn't sound like a tournament which makes plays exhausted, it's actually quite realistic with this format. The only thing is that the team's will play less matches in the group stage (from 5 to 3)

    It's impossible. IOC would not allow more players to attend Olympics. Otherwise each team could have 14 players in Olympics already.

  • Sorry, I have to write something here. This is the Polish arrogance people here are talking about, coming from fans, players, media, and their federation. You can 'see' whatever you want in Paris, the rest of Europe/the world saw it already years ago, regardless of how the final will end. I would be waaaay more humble if my team lost 3 times in a row at, in this case, consecutive ECHs.

    Arrogance … it's easy to say.

    I saw today what means real arrogance peaple.

    Have you seen bronze medal ceremony in Paris ?

    Almost all French fans left hall before ceremony !

    You blamed Polish fans, Federation, media. Have you ever seen Polish fans left any hall before ceremony even Poland/Polish club lost ?

    PS - I was present in CEV Champions League Women 2015 - Chemik Police lost both games and all audience were inside the hall till the end.

    Have you ever seen in Poland empty halls when our team was not present (ECH, WCH, club competitions' finals) ?

    PS - as volleyball fan I was present in such matches in ECH 2017 Italy - Germany, Czech Republic-Slovakia and hall was almost full.

    Have you seen bad organization of any tournament in Poland ? Is it arragance to arrange Government plane when CEV and Dutch Federation couldn't arrange anything except hotel ?


    and finally have you seen any congratulation or positive comments on forum to Polish team ?

    They played much better totally different game focussed to win medal. Kubiak and both liberos were great.

  • Nice (long) post.

    But with so much compliments for Slovenia, could you now take a moment going back to your post in another thread where I mentioned Poland could think of Slovenia as a stronger opponent than France, and if so, the OGQ schedule Poland designed should not be thought of lacking sportsmanship (which was based on the assumption that France was stronger)?


    If you want to accuse others of something guilty, it's your responsibility to to show strong enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Now that Poland lost to Slovenia again, but beat France 3:0 in Paris, just 1.5 month after the OGQ, I believe it is within reasonable doubt whom Poland thought of as a stronger opponent when setting OGQ schedule. You can't convincingly exclude the possibility that Poland considered Slovenia stronger (as least as an opponent for Poland). So the "unsportsmanship" allegation cannot be convicted.

  • Hmm, I am struggling to connect how all this you wrote is relevant to our discussion before. Fine, let's go in details.


    You are talking about attendance and general interest in volleyball here. What this ECH showed us, and not just this one, it has been similar also in previous editions, is that interest in volleyball is not great when France, Slovenia, Belgium, or the Netherlands are not playing. I could only watch set 1 yesterday, I don't know how many people left for the ceremony, and still is it the first not-well attended ceremony? People often leave when the game ends, unfortunately, or don't buy tickets to watch other teams. It has to do with lack of interest rather than not giving credit to the team out there. I don't like it either, this is a general problem in non-volleyball/pure football countries. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with arrogance, rather with ignorance or preferences set elsewhere. But I don't really see it as a sign of ignorance, the way you obivously felt it.


    I've also been to tournaments, not way too many but enough, both as a fan and as an accredited journalist. Apart from the ECH finals in Copenhagen in 2013, the organization has been great everywhere, not just in Poland, but in Italy, Germany, Slovenia, Bulgaria. Of course, you guys in Poland always make a terrific job supporting teams and attending matches, the atmosphere is great and credits have been shared everywhere, including here many times, for this. This is great for volleyball and for fans. It's not really the organization but the atmosphere that makes Poland more special when hosting events, from what I have witnessed, because your volleyball culture is different. You face no problem transferring this energy to the club season the moment the NT season is over and this is remarkable. And maybe this interest and volleyball culture create this superiority complex I've seen and people here have mentioned that you are/feel you are better than the rest. Arrogance shouldn't be mistaken with ignorance, as I wrote above. Arrogance, to me, is not giving credit, as you did, that's why I had to reply to your post, to a team that stopped Poland 3 times already and still questioning whether they are good or whether they can play volleyball away from home (when they have won matches in Slovenia, Poland, and Bulgaria). Arrogance is Polish fans constantly making excuses for their defeats with bad refereeing, bad schedule, or I don't know what else (I am not making this up, there are other forums and social platforms where people actually made fun of this. Agree that I can't be everywhere and make you screenshots of everything to prove it to you). Arrogance is still having (even as captain) and proudly defending Kubiak after what he said this year. Arrogance is what he said. Arrogance is the attitude your federation shows towards journalists applying for accreditation for events in Poland. You don't have to believe me here, you can ask Jiri Popelka, the current vice-president of the Czech Federation and his opinion on the processes in Poland. Or even other former Volleycountry colleagues who have had the experience. Arrogance is when only Polish players complain for almost every single thing when they play abroad. You gave an example of a Polish plane arranged to pick up your own NT, the most important and popular NT in Poland, in order to attend matches. This is great, I don't see how this is any different than what some countries might've done in the same situation. Even if not, this is an example of an action how much you care for your volleybal, not an example of an attitude towards something/someone outside.


    I can go on but this is not my point. Please, understand that I am not deliberately pointing fingers at Polish fans and players, I rather try to understand the reasons for this and hope that, through the means of communication, reasoning, or even defeats, Poland can just learn a bit more humility.


    We have congratuled and acknowledged Polish players and success tons of times here. You can check older threads. Yes, no one did it yet for their bronze medal result, so let me be the first one because it was an absolutely deserved achievement, following the obviously great performance against France and throughout the entire tournamant! Poland had only one defeat and they, I am sure, deserved a place in the final, for they are undoutbtedly a great team. You said no one made compliments but this is not true. Just yesterday or the day before kyle7in1 made the greatest compliment you can probably have - that he doesn't like the NT at all, yet he thinks they are a great team and play great volleyball quite often.


    Last but not least, I don't know how many people watched the bronze medal match because often it is the saddest and least contested match in a tournament. Maybe that's the reason people didn't congratulate Poland. There is also another reason. People are used to Russia, Poland, Italy, Brazil winning medals, so they don't make an extra fuss when they do it again.

  • Nice (long) post.

    But with so much compliments for Slovenia, could you now take a moment going back to your post in another thread where I mentioned Poland could think of Slovenia as a stronger opponent than France, and if so, the OGQ schedule Poland designed should not be thought of lacking sportsmanship (which was based on the assumption that France was stronger)?


    If you want to accuse others of something guilty, it's your responsibility to to show strong enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Now that Poland lost to Slovenia again, but beat France 3:0 in Paris, just 1.5 month after the OGQ, I believe it is within reasonable doubt whom Poland thought of as a stronger opponent when setting OGQ schedule. You can't convincingly exclude the possibility that Poland considered Slovenia stronger (as least as an opponent for Poland). So the "unsportsmanship" allegation cannot be convicted.

    And now to the next one. Amazing how you still have that opinion on the schedule. Let's do the exercise once more, fine.


    First, I wanted to make compliments and write about Slovenia. Users focus on bigger teams, they don't pay attention to other or smaller teams. I pay attention to all, as much as I can, so I wanted to write about a team that has been overlooked and underestimated. I didn't like the fact that Slovenia was called a 'not strong' team or that they weren't given credit for their overall development in the past years. That's the reason for my post, I can do similar analysis for almost every team out there, by the way. No need to write anything about France or Poland, though, they are well-known and a lot has been said.


    Second, about you coming back and bringing some momentum facts. Yes, what you wrote was about momentum because you brought facts from a tournament at the end of September about a tournament that was played at the beginning of August. A month and a half later, Slovenia reached a much better momentum and beat Poland, whereas Poland beat France in the most meaningless match in a tournament (without taking anything away from their success, a totally deserved win and medal) between two teams that had to deal with disappointment and exhaustion. Poland were exhausted because of the schedule, France because of the late night letdown against Serbia a few hours earlier. Still, of course, Poland were clearly the better team, credit where credit is due, again. Does it mean that Slovenia, a now finallist, just like 4 years ago, is a better team than Poland and France? Clearly not! And no sane person would choose to play Poland or France instead of facing Slovenia even now, 2 finals later. Because Slovenia peaked when they needed it but it doesn't make them Europe's best team, or even better than the other two. So, if you again claim that you would choose Poland/France rather Slovenia, because Slovenia is your scariest opponent, or that the Polish Federation saw Slovenia as their main rival, then you and the Polish Federation should either be treated by a specialist or should focus on another sport. I doubt the Polish governing body set their minds elsewhere but eliminating France, even if they had full respect for Slovenia.


    Last, this discussion still doesn't change the fact, and you wanted facts, that France had to play all 3 matches within a span of about 40-42 hours. So the unsportsmanship label is still very much valid. But I guess this is something everyone else saw and commented but not you or the Polish users (no offense intended, I am summarizing the discussion).


  • Now I see some details and I understand some points.

    1/ I saw kyle7in1 compliment (after SF match) and it's more than ok.

    2/ I think Paris hall left 3/4 audience just after match except Polish fans and officials, media etc - please do not not say people often leave hall after match (before Ceremony) BTW - v.strange ceremony - no other teams, no podium just red carpet

    3/ accreditation - it's hard to say something as I didn't hear anything in the past / if you say I accept it and say (on behalf of fans) sorry but I think i's more procedures problem / PIC than arrogance

    4/ excuses for the defeats = I personally blame own team but I see also their "body language" and if it observed in all players in one particular match something happened. When I stated Poland played 70% nad Slovenia 110 % what it means ? It means Poland skill level/efficiency was 30 % below standard level and Slovenia 10 % over standard level. Nothing else. I didn't say Slovenia was not better in this match. Why arrogance means for you I asked for Slovenia volleyball level abroad or in other competition ? I need proof Slovenia is a good team within longer time not only one competiotion or two matches

    5/ Kubiak - it was his interview and he shouldn't say anything but he said what he feels (maybe it's more general feeling in volleyball) - I strongly say it shouldn't be address to Iran or Iranian people. Additionally have you seen audience behaviour in Iran ? Have you noticed what happened Polish NT this year on the way from sport hall to hotel ? Is it a standard in volleyball ?

    PS - I dislake Zaytsev and for me he's arrogant but It's my private feeling


    Last but not least, you blamed all Polish fans, media, Federation etc so I feel bad. Is it because our teams won something finally, our organization and support volleyball is sometimes better in comparison to other nations ? I had to wait 20 years (1983-2003) to see success back but never left volleyball.

  • Any link for Slovenia x Serbia?

  • Slovenia taking the win today would be really cool to see. Hoping for the best.

    Gold - European Championship 2013 (M) Prediction Game
    Bronze - World Championship 2014 (W) Prediction Game

    Bronze - Volleyball Nations League 2019 (W) Prediction Game

  • Slovenia taking the win today would be really cool to see. Hoping for the best.

    Agreed. I would love a new champion vibes in Europe. Crossing my fingers. :super:

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • He's not exactly precise as it's been mentioned here before, but so far I'm enjoying Vincic's distribution a lot.

    Gold - European Championship 2013 (M) Prediction Game
    Bronze - World Championship 2014 (W) Prediction Game

    Bronze - Volleyball Nations League 2019 (W) Prediction Game

  • This is not a bad crowd at all.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • He's not exactly precise as it's been mentioned here before, but so far I'm enjoying Vincic's distribution a lot.


    Indeed. He is being very, very risky. Trying to move serbian (killer) block as much as possible. But his accuracy is :|

    He has left Urnaut, Cebulj and Gasparini with only one block, but thanks for slovenian attackers are resolving. So many tips because serbian defense is out of place. As well as many unexpected sets :teach:

  • Lisinac is sealing everything. Vincic have to force the middle now.

    Favorite players: M: Maxim Mikhaylov, Murilo, Serginho, Aaron Russell, Otavio, Simone Giannelli, Ivan Zaytsev, Tsvetan Sokolov, Michał Kubiak, Mariusz Wlazly, Pawel Zagummy W: Sheilla, Zhu Ting, Natalia, Fe Garay, Fofao, Gabi, Thaisa, Foluke Akinradewo, Wei Qiuyue, Ding Xia, Carli Lloyd, Fabi, Natalia Goncharova, Yuko Sano, Saoris Kimura and Sakoda

  • Vincic tricking Uros into using his block but hiding his hands at the exact perfect time was priceless. :lol:

    Gold - European Championship 2013 (M) Prediction Game
    Bronze - World Championship 2014 (W) Prediction Game

    Bronze - Volleyball Nations League 2019 (W) Prediction Game