CEV Men’s European Championship 2019 - hosts France, Slovenia, Belgium and the Netherlands

Quote from YavorD

Thank you, FlyingCrow for the comment, it saved me a lot of typing Also, definitely not a bad way to write your first post here!

Who cares if Slovenia can be considered a real world-class team, a strong team, or just a very good team? What matters is how they play, even achievements are sometimes unobjective. Yes, they don't even have proper subs, their starting 7 are not necessarily all super stars or even amazing players, but it seems to work quite well at times when they play together and under the guidance of a good coach. It's not just a one-time wonder, they repeated this success 4 years ago in Bulgaria, playing abroad. They even won their right to participate at the World League/VNL twice, if I recall correctly, making it actually to the group of the world's strongest teams. Yes, I wrote it correctly, strongest teams. For they are undoubtedly a strong team. With that limited amount of good players for the NT, they can't win tournaments, although they can make bigger teams like Russia, Italy, Poleonia, Bulgaria suffer, yet 2 finals is quite a remarkable achievement. By the way, no one claims that after Greece won the football Euro or Slovenia won the Basket Euro they miraculously become the best in the world, yet they don't have to be at all. Winning that trophy, or in Slovenia's volleyball case, reaching 2 finals in a span of 4 years, is totally enough for a place in history. And that for a country that is 20-something years old. Product of the Yugoslavian school, but young nevertheless.

By the way, the first signs that this Slovenian generation can play volleyball came already in 2007 when Autocommerce Bled, predecessor of ACH Volley, won the Top Teams Cup in Italy against Modena with Urnaut and Gasparini in the roster. Plus a few other former NT members, such as Skorc, Flajs, Kamnik, Smuc, Cuturic, Cebron, Plesko, Satler.

I am happy with how the championship unfolded. This tournament proved that the expansion wasn't such a bad idea. It took a few upsets before this thread attracted people again, last night there were a lot of visitors here. And judging by the amount of posts I had to read today, too. Not necessarily a great discussion, but I will take it as it is I guess even the ones who were complaining at the beginning found some joy watching the ECH. That's why it IS a serious tournament and we, the Europeans, like it a lot.

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Nice (long) post.

But with so much compliments for Slovenia, could you now take a moment going back to your post in another thread where I mentioned Poland could think of Slovenia as a stronger opponent than France, and if so, the OGQ schedule Poland designed should not be thought of lacking sportsmanship (which was based on the assumption that France was stronger)?

If you want to accuse others of something guilty, it's your responsibility to to show strong enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Now that Poland lost to Slovenia again, but beat France 3:0 in Paris, just 1.5 month after the OGQ, I believe it is within reasonable doubt whom Poland thought of as a stronger opponent when setting OGQ schedule. You can't convincingly exclude the possibility that Poland considered Slovenia stronger (as least as an opponent for Poland). So the "unsportsmanship" allegation cannot be convicted.

Quote from mariuszj1939

Arrogance … it's easy to say.

I saw today what means real arrogance peaple.

Have you seen bronze medal ceremony in Paris ?

Almost all French fans left hall before ceremony !

You blamed Polish fans, Federation, media. Have you ever seen Polish fans left any hall before ceremony even Poland/Polish club lost ?

PS - I was present in CEV Champions League Women 2015 - Chemik Police lost both games and all audience were inside the hall till the end.

Have you ever seen in Poland empty halls when our team was not present (ECH, WCH, club competitions' finals) ?

PS - as volleyball fan I was present in such matches in ECH 2017 Italy - Germany, Czech Republic-Slovakia and hall was almost full.

Have you seen bad organization of any tournament in Poland ? Is it arragance to arrange Government plane when CEV and Dutch Federation couldn't arrange anything except hotel ?

and finally have you seen any congratulation or positive comments on forum to Polish team ?

They played much better totally different game focussed to win medal. Kubiak and both liberos were great.

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Hmm, I am struggling to connect how all this you wrote is relevant to our discussion before. Fine, let's go in details.

You are talking about attendance and general interest in volleyball here. What this ECH showed us, and not just this one, it has been similar also in previous editions, is that interest in volleyball is not great when France, Slovenia, Belgium, or the Netherlands are not playing. I could only watch set 1 yesterday, I don't know how many people left for the ceremony, and still is it the first not-well attended ceremony? People often leave when the game ends, unfortunately, or don't buy tickets to watch other teams. It has to do with lack of interest rather than not giving credit to the team out there. I don't like it either, this is a general problem in non-volleyball/pure football countries. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with arrogance, rather with ignorance or preferences set elsewhere. But I don't really see it as a sign of ignorance, the way you obivously felt it.

I've also been to tournaments, not way too many but enough, both as a fan and as an accredited journalist. Apart from the ECH finals in Copenhagen in 2013, the organization has been great everywhere, not just in Poland, but in Italy, Germany, Slovenia, Bulgaria. Of course, you guys in Poland always make a terrific job supporting teams and attending matches, the atmosphere is great and credits have been shared everywhere, including here many times, for this. This is great for volleyball and for fans. It's not really the organization but the atmosphere that makes Poland more special when hosting events, from what I have witnessed, because your volleyball culture is different. You face no problem transferring this energy to the club season the moment the NT season is over and this is remarkable. And maybe this interest and volleyball culture create this superiority complex I've seen and people here have mentioned that you are/feel you are better than the rest. Arrogance shouldn't be mistaken with ignorance, as I wrote above. Arrogance, to me, is not giving credit, as you did, that's why I had to reply to your post, to a team that stopped Poland 3 times already and still questioning whether they are good or whether they can play volleyball away from home (when they have won matches in Slovenia, Poland, and Bulgaria). Arrogance is Polish fans constantly making excuses for their defeats with bad refereeing, bad schedule, or I don't know what else (I am not making this up, there are other forums and social platforms where people actually made fun of this. Agree that I can't be everywhere and make you screenshots of everything to prove it to you). Arrogance is still having (even as captain) and proudly defending Kubiak after what he said this year. Arrogance is what he said. Arrogance is the attitude your federation shows towards journalists applying for accreditation for events in Poland. You don't have to believe me here, you can ask Jiri Popelka, the current vice-president of the Czech Federation and his opinion on the processes in Poland. Or even other former Volleycountry colleagues who have had the experience. Arrogance is when only Polish players complain for almost every single thing when they play abroad. You gave an example of a Polish plane arranged to pick up your own NT, the most important and popular NT in Poland, in order to attend matches. This is great, I don't see how this is any different than what some countries might've done in the same situation. Even if not, this is an example of an action how much you care for your volleybal, not an example of an attitude towards something/someone outside.

I can go on but this is not my point. Please, understand that I am not deliberately pointing fingers at Polish fans and players, I rather try to understand the reasons for this and hope that, through the means of communication, reasoning, or even defeats, Poland can just learn a bit more humility.

We have congratuled and acknowledged Polish players and success tons of times here. You can check older threads. Yes, no one did it yet for their bronze medal result, so let me be the first one because it was an absolutely deserved achievement, following the obviously great performance against France and throughout the entire tournamant! Poland had only one defeat and they, I am sure, deserved a place in the final, for they are undoutbtedly a great team. You said no one made compliments but this is not true. Just yesterday or the day before kyle7in1 made the greatest compliment you can probably have - that he doesn't like the NT at all, yet he thinks they are a great team and play great volleyball quite often.

Last but not least, I don't know how many people watched the bronze medal match because often it is the saddest and least contested match in a tournament. Maybe that's the reason people didn't congratulate Poland. There is also another reason. People are used to Russia, Poland, Italy, Brazil winning medals, so they don't make an extra fuss when they do it again.

Quote from fan_of_volleybal

Nice (long) post.

But with so much compliments for Slovenia, could you now take a moment going back to your post in another thread where I mentioned Poland could think of Slovenia as a stronger opponent than France, and if so, the OGQ schedule Poland designed should not be thought of lacking sportsmanship (which was based on the assumption that France was stronger)?

If you want to accuse others of something guilty, it's your responsibility to to show strong enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Now that Poland lost to Slovenia again, but beat France 3:0 in Paris, just 1.5 month after the OGQ, I believe it is within reasonable doubt whom Poland thought of as a stronger opponent when setting OGQ schedule. You can't convincingly exclude the possibility that Poland considered Slovenia stronger (as least as an opponent for Poland). So the "unsportsmanship" allegation cannot be convicted.

And now to the next one. Amazing how you still have that opinion on the schedule. Let's do the exercise once more, fine.

First, I wanted to make compliments and write about Slovenia. Users focus on bigger teams, they don't pay attention to other or smaller teams. I pay attention to all, as much as I can, so I wanted to write about a team that has been overlooked and underestimated. I didn't like the fact that Slovenia was called a 'not strong' team or that they weren't given credit for their overall development in the past years. That's the reason for my post, I can do similar analysis for almost every team out there, by the way. No need to write anything about France or Poland, though, they are well-known and a lot has been said.

Second, about you coming back and bringing some momentum facts. Yes, what you wrote was about momentum because you brought facts from a tournament at the end of September about a tournament that was played at the beginning of August. A month and a half later, Slovenia reached a much better momentum and beat Poland, whereas Poland beat France in the most meaningless match in a tournament (without taking anything away from their success, a totally deserved win and medal) between two teams that had to deal with disappointment and exhaustion. Poland were exhausted because of the schedule, France because of the late night letdown against Serbia a few hours earlier. Still, of course, Poland were clearly the better team, credit where credit is due, again. Does it mean that Slovenia, a now finallist, just like 4 years ago, is a better team than Poland and France? Clearly not! And no sane person would choose to play Poland or France instead of facing Slovenia even now, 2 finals later. Because Slovenia peaked when they needed it but it doesn't make them Europe's best team, or even better than the other two. So, if you again claim that you would choose Poland/France rather Slovenia, because Slovenia is your scariest opponent, or that the Polish Federation saw Slovenia as their main rival, then you and the Polish Federation should either be treated by a specialist or should focus on another sport. I doubt the Polish governing body set their minds elsewhere but eliminating France, even if they had full respect for Slovenia.

Last, this discussion still doesn't change the fact, and you wanted facts, that France had to play all 3 matches within a span of about 40-42 hours. So the unsportsmanship label is still very much valid. But I guess this is something everyone else saw and commented but not you or the Polish users (no offense intended, I am summarizing the discussion).

Any link for Slovenia x Serbia?

https://live-stream365.com/onlineplayer.php?stream_id=923443

At least the arena seems full.

Quote from Leonardo.D

https://live-stream365.com/onlineplayer.php?stream_id=923443

At least the arena seems full.

I'm watching on mobile but the plugin doesn't work thanks anyway

Quote from inc0gnito

I'm watching on mobile but the plugin doesn't work thanks anyway

Try this one: http://liveru.eu/volleyball/serbia-slovenia-pb51qcl

Or this one: http://liveru.eu/volleyball/serbia-slovenia-pb51qbm

Quote from saishuu

Slovenia taking the win today would be really cool to see. Hoping for the best.

Agreed. I would love a new champion vibes in Europe. Crossing my fingers.

This is not a bad crowd at all.

Quote from saishuu

He's not exactly precise as it's been mentioned here before, but so far I'm enjoying Vincic's distribution a lot.

Indeed. He is being very, very risky. Trying to move serbian (killer) block as much as possible. But his accuracy is

He has left Urnaut, Cebulj and Gasparini with only one block, but thanks for slovenian attackers are resolving. So many tips because serbian defense is out of place. As well as many unexpected sets

It's hard for Urnaut to score on the weak side. He's not Juan after all.

Lisinac is sealing everything. Vincic have to force the middle now.

Monkey's block in on fire

Monkey trapped himself. He's waiting for block, but nothing there. LOL

Vincic denying Uros clever play

Btw, I have just noticed that if Serbia wins, it would be the same scenario than in 2011: european champions with both teams (women&men).

Just a little bit of nostalgia remembering Milijkovic & Brakocevic outstanding performances.