For the euroshits here: the only way the african and argentinian team will be in the same group is if BOTH Turkey/Germany and Thailand qualify.
Even more, if Colombia or Peru qualifies they are 100% sure not going to be in the same group as the african team.
This is going to be a big asks...but you seem to be the only one here to offer an alternative to the flawed fivb ranking. Following the serpentine system and six pools of 4 teams, I'd be really interested to see what the international qualification would look like under your point system.
Team Played in Qualifiers in August
Team Did Not Play in Qualifiers
My ranking at the beginning of 2019
1. USA 552 pts (FIVB Rank 3) A
2. China 533 (2) B
3. Serbia 528 (1) C
4. Netherlands 527 (7) D
5. Brazil 512 (4) E
6. Italy 482 (8) F
7. Russia 409 (5) F
8. Japan 390 host (6)
9. Turkey 338 (12) E
10. Poland 276 (26) D
11. Germany 270 (15) C
12. Bulgaria 261 (16) B
13. S. Korea 256 (9) A
14. Thailand 234 (14) A
15. Dom. Rep. 228 (10) B
16. Puerto Rico 188 (13) C
17. Belgium 173 (19) D
18. Colombia 164 (29) E
19. Peru 162 (27) F
20. Czech Rep. 161 (24) F
21. Argentina 126 (11) E
22. Croatia 115 (30) D
23. Kazakhstan 90 (23) C
24. Hungary 88 (35) B
25. Canada 87 (18) A
26. France 73 (39)
27. Kenya 70 (20)
28. Azerbaijan 69 (22)
29. Cuba 63 (25) withdrew
30. Mexico 62 (21)
31. Cameroon 59 (17)
Pool A
1. USA, 13. South Korea, 14. Thailand, 25. Canada
Pool B
2. China, 12. Bulgaria, 15. Dom. Rep., 24. Hungary
Pool C
3. Serbia , 11. Germany, 16. Puerto Rico, 23. Kazakhstan
Pool D
4. Netherlands, 10. Poland, 17. Belgium, 22. Croatia
Pool E
5. Brazil, 9. Turkey, 18, Columbia, 21. Argentina
Pool F
6. Italy, 7. Russia, 19. Peru, 20. Czech Rep.
Display MoreTeam Played in Qualifiers in August
Team Did Not Play in Qualifiers
My ranking at the beginning of 2019
1. USA 552 pts (FIVB Rank 3) A
2. China 533 (2) B
3. Serbia 528 (1) C
4. Netherlands 527 (7) D
5. Brazil 512 (4) E
6. Italy 482 (8) F
7. Russia 409 (5) F
8. Japan 390 host (6)
9. Turkey 338 (12) E
10. Poland 276 (26) D
11. Germany 270 (15) C
12. Bulgaria 261 (16) B
13. S. Korea 256 (9) A
14. Thailand 234 (14) A
15. Dom. Rep. 228 (10) B
16. Puerto Rico 188 (13) C
17. Belgium 173 (19) D
18. Colombia 164 (29) E
19. Peru 162 (27) F
20. Czech Rep. 161 (24) F
21. Argentina 126 (11) E
22. Croatia 115 (30) D
23. Kazakhstan 90 (23) C
24. Hungary 88 (35) B
25. Canada 87 (18) A
26. France 73 (39)
27. Kenya 70 (20)
28. Azerbaijan 69 (22)
29. Cuba 63 (25) withdrew
30. Mexico 62 (21)
31. Cameroon 59 (17)
Pool A
1. USA, 13. South Korea, 14. Thailand, 25. Canada
Pool B
2. China, 12. Bulgaria, 15. Dom. Rep., 24. Hungary
Pool C
3. Serbia , 11. Germany, 16. Puerto Rico, 23. Kazakhstan
Pool D
4. Netherlands, 10. Poland, 17. Belgium, 22. Croatia
Pool E
5. Brazil, 9. Turkey, 18, Columbia, 21. Argentina
Pool F
6. Italy, 7. Russia, 19. Peru, 20. Czech Rep.
How did you get this ranking? I know you used to upload everything on volleymob but it's not there anymore. Do you have a new site?
I think that Netherlands and Russia would swap positions and that is all.
Looking at my points system for the women's national teams. I go back to 2002 with my match results. 2002-2018, my ranking has correctly picked the winner 78.5% of the time. Teams that were outscored by their opponents were winners only 3.7% of the time. Teams that were 10 positions or more below their opponent only win 5.8% of the time.
If you said, only make it international matches (FIVB & Olympic events) here are the numbers"
correctly picked the winner 76.5% of the time
Winners were outscored by opponents 4.2% of the time
10 positions or more below their opponent 2.6% of the time.
For the men all matches
correctly picked the winner 73.9% of the time
Winners were outscored by opponents 4.7% of the time
10 positions or more below their opponent 7.6% of the time.
For the men FIVB & Olympic matches
correctly picked the winner 70.3% of the time
Winners were outscored by opponents 5.1% of the time
10 positions or more below their opponent 4.0% of the time.
Jesus. I know this is how things work around here, but still. Good job I guess.
Thank you!
In fact, the only good motivation supporting the current system I read from Brazilian users here was diversity. However some good questions such as why America is divided in two while they are only represented with one circle in the Olympics logo is remaining unanswered. Also with the new system, all continents will be represented anyway, but with only 1 spot. For me the only good explanation why Brazilians (and some others) are so in favor of the current system is because they want the OGs to remain as an easy tournament.
You are late, my friend. Russia NT got the ticket for OGs
Serbia, Italy, USA, Japan, Brazil, China as well. It'll be better to discuss the rest of the teams.
I tend to be realistic and leave you alone with your imaginary ranking system.
You have bad comprehension skill. Brush it up.
IMO the problem of the ranking is the points of World Cup 2015. Brazil has still the points of WC 2011 since they were the host in 2016 and Russia is ranked high because of these points, otherwise it will be behind Netherlands and Italy. These points should've influenced less the ranking for me
Oh, really ?? Because I am not supporting his imaginary ranking points based on the results of the last VNL, which most teams didnt even take serious that tournament. It will be better if he creates the new ranking system based on important tournaments (OGs, WC, IOGQ). Right now, VNL is equal to Volley Masters, Gloria Cup to me.
Oh, he is very creative. USA NT won the gold medals of VNL in women volleyball, silver medals of VNL for men volleyball of USA NT. That's why his ranking points based on that tournament. We had friendly games in Kaliningrad, Russian NT won all of three games and I also want he added those points to his ranking system. It is ridiculous to me. If VNL offers ranking points to the teams, I dont think some NTs will send their "B team" to that tournament. Thats why WG was much better than VNL.
With this post, you have proven that you are not smart.
Oh, really ?? Because I am not supporting his imaginary ranking points based on the results of the last VNL, which most teams didnt even take serious that tournament. It will be better if he creates the new ranking system based on important tournaments (OGs, WC, IOGQ). Right now, VNL is equal to Volley Masters, Gloria Cup to me.
Oh, he is very creative. USA NT won the gold medals of VNL in women volleyball, silver medals of VNL for men volleyball of USA NT. That's why his ranking points based on that tournament. We had friendly games in Kaliningrad, Russian NT won all of three games and I also want he added those points to his ranking system. It is ridiculous to me. If VNL offers ranking points to the teams, I dont think some NTs will send their "B team" to that tournament. Thats why WG was much better than VNL.
Ksenia, here are the following tournaments that are included:
FIVB WORLD GRAND PRIX, EVERY YEAR COUNTS
FIVB WORLD LEAGUE, EVERY YEAR COUNTS
FIVB VNL, EVERY YEAR COUNTS
FIVB WORLD CUP
FIVB GRAND CHAMPIONS CUP
FIVB WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
FIVB VNL CHALLENGER CUP & QUALIFYING FOR THOSE
CONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, BOTH TOURNAMENTS IN A 4 YEAR PERIOD COUNTS
CONTINENTAL OLYMPIC QUALIFYING
CONTINENTAL WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP QUALIFYING
Not included:
Friendlies
CEV Europe League
FIVB Montreux Masters
Remember if you lose 3-0 you get no points. It does not matter if you throw back ups out there, you don’t score. Brazil got no points for the 2015 World Cup because it did not play.
The problem is here, FiVB officially announced "no ranking points" for VNL, otherwise it won't be so easy to get the gold medals of VNL. RVF officially announced that they didn't care about "VNL", they sent "B team" for that. We have "VNL", " WC", "ECH", "IOGQ" this year. It is a lot for the main players to participate in every of those tournaments. The main aim was "IOGQ" here, and they achieved it, 2nd goal is "ECH", 3rd goal is " WC" because of ranking points. RVF, Karpol, our commentators etc. everyone here called "VNL" as "commercial tournament", which everyone less cares. If VNL offers ranking points, do you think your fave team would be able to defeat Serbia, China, Netherlands, Italy etc so easily. Neither you nor me is the member of FiVB, they create " the ranking points", that's why I find this argument totally pointless. If you have enough time for such things, what I can say. Suit yourself.
The World League and Grand Prix were commercial tournaments as well. Would you rather the sport only be played every two to four years? Then the rankings conversation even gets worse because there are fewer tournaments to look at.
Is not the Olympics essentially a commercial tournament as well, with no sponsors?
If Russia did not qualify for the Olympics is the VNL's fault? They played really bad in the VNL. You had $1 million as a potential prize money to the winning team. And you send the backups. Goncharova needs her lip gloss, send out the best team you can. I understand that each team wants to get their younger players experience and the VNL allows you to do it. Still you have to win matches to get to the final. China looked really bad the first couple of weeks, now they knew that they were hosting the final, but still those teams the first two weeks were not winning and the first team came back.
With the Men's World League, do you know that in the past the prize money was $20 million for the entire tournament?
While the World Grand Prix was only around $2-3 million?
Or what if I told you that the World Championships earned each winning team $250,000? The entire team over a 3 week tournament.
The entire sport needs to do a better job of tracking these things, I had just tried to track them. We get few crumbs and nobody tracks them. I've dug for those things. Hence why people like my work like here, World of Volley and Volleymob.
If I want Karpol's opinion he can scream it at me. 
Actually, I have met with an FIVB partner last year in London after VNL final. Some of the things that person and I talked about was the broadcast of the sport. The display of the score and even things like showing the challenge dots. I had examples from photos from watching VNL. By the World Champs, some of the things were implemented, or even slight changes made a world of difference.
The World League and Grand Prix were commercial tournaments as well. Would you rather the sport only be played every two to four years?
It's not an issue for us Euroshits, because we have ECh which is kind of a big deal for us, so we have some volleyball played every year.
Not to mention that there's club volleyball that's literally played every single year.
So I guess the biggest questions I have is. Which is more important to Ksenia? Is it the clubs or the national team?
I will completely admit that there are too many tournaments, club and international. Is there any reason to play more than a best of three match series in the playoffs in the club season? There is no need for the Grand Champions Cup and World Cup other than FIVB needing Japanese TV money. Let alone the Club World Championship.
Which does the Russian government care about more? It is the Olympics and World Championships, right? So, the last medal won by the Russians women’s national team was in 2015, CEV Championship. 4 years ago. China, Serbia, USA, Italy, Turkey and Brazil have won some color medal in FIVB events in the last 4 years. All of the above except Turkey have already qualified for Tokyo. Russia should be on these teams level, but they just are not there right now.
Right now in the sport, there is not one dominant team, which gives us surprises in results. Would we prefer dominant Brazil from 2008-2013? Part of me says yes, because you knew if you beat them, you were good.
What's the point of winning $1 million shared by many people when you're going to lose out on a professional contract that could've paid you more because you got injured?
Some people like KYK said she got some lucrative rewards like the pension from the Korean government after winning the asian championship.
In Ivan Zaytsev's case, after winning the silver medal in the olympics, his fame skyrocketed and took on some jobs that a normal volleyball player won't get into.
There are reasons like why some teams opt into caring less about the VNL especially after losing its main value with the ranking points.
The human body can only take so much damage. Numbing the pain can only lead them to shorter careers and we don't want to see that ever.
Sympathy is a basic human emotion. Please use that and be less pro-corporation.
guys you do realize most pro sports player on the top on average spend 3+ hours daily on their sports regardless of tournaments anyway.
Sometimes I feel people are so lost in this forum with amount of playing hours.
Volleyball should definitely have more ranking points to share in all tournaments and volleyball players aren't nearly as fatigued as some assume
It's really not that serious. Quite a few of us here thought brahmin had an interesting take on the ranking system. Everyone agrees that FIVB ranking is a mess. Everyone is well aware of the fact that his system is not official. I just thought it would be interesting to see how the IOQ would look like under his system. He was nice enough to humor me and my curiosity. I dont understand how a hypothetical scenario would elecit such a reaction. Chill.
I watched some Water Polo World Championship this year. And during one of Serbia`s game they mentioned Serbia did not send their best players because they had already qualified for Tokyo by winning the World League.
And the 2 finalist of this WCH, Italy and Spain qualified for Tokyo.
Will qualify for Tokyo the winners of Pan American Games, European Championship, Asian and then World Qualification.
This is what FIVB should be doing.... Using current tournaments as qualification. There`s no need to create a tournament just for qualification.
Thank you!
In fact, the only good motivation supporting the current system I read from Brazilian users here was diversity. However some good questions such as why America is divided in two while they are only represented with one circle in the Olympics logo is remaining unanswered. Also with the new system, all continents will be represented anyway, but with only 1 spot. For me the only good explanation why Brazilians (and some others) are so in favor of the current system is because they want the OGs to remain as an easy tournament.
Someday will we be able to discuss something without attacks and accusations? It will be a nice day
I'm Brazilian, I do support Africa's spots, but also I think not only the America's spot is
messed up (okay, merge all the America could be a solution), but the whole qualification is horrible. I'm agree 100% with all of you who say that Continental qualification should be played first that this bullshit that was this qualification... But I'm not okay with the idea of "more Europeans = better tournament", i know you didn't say that, but someone said it and i'm tired to comment about it, so let's forget about it... And I don't want an easy tournament for Brazil. In Men's qualification, for example, i would enjoy so much more Bulgaria winning their ticket than Brazil because they played their hearts there, i can comment about volleyball without being blind about what is happening with my own NT and my country.
I'm used to ignore this type of comment but i'm tired to see people acting that they are superior or are 100% right all the time in comparison to someone from another nationality ("Bah, Brazilian want an easy tournament, Turkish users are difficult, or something like that")... Bring arguments, please, it is not difficult, and you can be right, you can be wrong, just be nice and don't bring the "nationality or ethnicity" card, please
That's what everybody wants, ain't it?
But FINA doesn't earn money through Water Polo but swimming, honey. I mean, who watches water polo outside Europe? No country is gonna host a tournament that's absolutely unprofitable.
Honestly, I think you're living in Utopia, just like you want every player you like to be a starter in their club, it's simply unrealistic
That's what everybody wants, ain't it?
But FINA doesn't earn money through Water Polo but swimming, honey. I mean, who watches water polo outside Europe? No country is gonna host a tournament that's absolutely unprofitable.
Honestly, I think you're living in Utopia, just like you want every player you like to be a starter in their club, it's simply unrealistic
?????????????
Each host for the qualifier had to pay FIVB 500K....and why is that? Otherwise FIVB would make 0 money because none of these tournaments is profitable. Do you think all these federations made at least 500K with tickets sales and TV Rights to at least make it even? They all lost money.
brahmin didn`t you have a article showing that Japan actually lost money with last year`s WCH?
Do you really think Japan is making any money during the World Cup? 100 matches, but only selling out the arena when Japan is playing, while all the other matches have attendance of 100 people.
They are certainly not make a couple of millions with TV rights either since only a few countries are buying it.
