Japan Women’s NT 2020

    Quote from sitenoise

    . And it mentions (this one I may have wrong) the Cuban Team that used to use two setters who also attacked (or two attackers who also set).

    First of all sorry for off topic, but these moments, sentimental, the passion I feel when certain moments are mentioned, are the moments when I have to comment. The Cuban 6-2 system, when in addition to standard 5-1 system we have diagonal with two setter/opposite player in wich player in front row takes over the role of opposite and player in back row the role of setter. I was super amazed first time when i saw this system, and back then it looks like perfect one, lately when i learn more about volleyball i saw crucial flaws and weaknesses of that system. Even i noticed sometimes, when Santos was in front row she covered Calderon on receiving and after that she run and attack from zone 2. It goes without saying that such a system is complicated

    No player only able to give their 50% should be allowed to participate and Miyu is no exception.


    Her, Iwasaka and Shinnabe's roles at Hisamitsu needs to be re-evaluated. Both Iwasaka and Miyu mention Shinnabe's retirement has affected their plans but why exactly would they allow Miyu who is clearly still in recovery mode and may not even ever be out of that stage to play for the NT.

    Bogdan  ravhin I consider your posts on-topic and appreciate your input. I brought up the Cuban team while trying to understand some things Japan might do to dig out of their rut. Not that they'll try the 6-2 thing, but I didn't know if I understood the article correctly because I don't know that history. Thanks for clarifying.


    The article also talks about the "division of labor" in contemporary volleyball that makes these kinds of options (probably like my desire for hybrid OP/MB action) not wise.


    My question is: Isn't that 6-2 era when Cuba was winning medals?

    Quote from sean1

    No player only able to give their 50% should be allowed to participate and Miyu is no exception.


    Her, Iwasaka and Shinnabe's roles at Hisamitsu needs to be re-evaluated. Both Iwasaka and Miyu mention Shinnabe's retirement has affected their plans but why exactly would they allow Miyu who is clearly still in recovery mode and may not even ever be out of that stage to play for the NT.

    Expectations seem to have dwindled after Risa retired and the lack of Miyashita is also making a lot of volleyfans annoyed.


    I think I saw on twitter that holding the remote match thing was a mistake seemingly due to Korean netizens saying NT current roster has devolved significantly (uhh thanks Asahi Sports that's exactly what they needed)

    some fans are saying that Miyashita was removed from the NT to make way for Seki. Sato as main setter. The comments are pretty much scattered everywhere


    the last link i was able to save is from here. you can see from the comments

    Quote from ravhin

    Yeah, since 1990 or before that. Won 3 consecutive Olympics with this set-up. They tried it until 2004 Athens, I think.

    They did that until 2008 Beijing with Ramirez and Santos playing as OPP/setter (they finished at #4). After that last good generation retired or left the NT, Cuba's level dropped a lot.

    Quote from Sidney

    They did that until 2008 Beijing with Ramirez and Santos playing as OPP/setter (they finished at #4). After that last good generation retired or left the NT, Cuba's level dropped a lot.

    Also after that, they have Cleger and Silie as that setter/opposite diagonal, but yes in overall their level dropped a lot after Beijing.

    Quote from Bogdan123

    Also after that, they have Cleger and Silie as that setter/opposite diagonal, but yes in overall their level dropped a lot after Beijing.

    I think that in PAN 2011 when Cuba lost 2 - 3 to Brazil they still had a good team.

    Quote from MyNameIst.

    Yoshino was also part of U20 where miyu won best OH and MVP. Like any other fans here she isn't as famous as miyu, kurog but I believe she has a great future in NT. She is one of the best OH of japan league, best scorer too.

    Yoshino wasn't part of the U20 Squad but she played a little in the U20/NT B-Team Asian Championship mashup.


    She's a curious item. Definitely has potential, but sadly, she seems sort of in the camp of someone like Syuka Kaneda (who is a much better player than Yoshino). She doesn't have "the look", and doesn't smile enough.

    Quote from Sidney

    They did that until 2008 Beijing with Ramirez and Santos playing as OPP/setter (they finished at #4). After that last good generation retired or left the NT, Cuba's level dropped a lot.

    So is it safe to say that the 6-2 was only a workable option when Cuba had players good enough to make it work?


    Volleyball was different a generation ago. Middle Blockers receiving serve and whatnot.


    This is relevant to Japan for me because, as I understand, Coach Manabe tried some unconventional things several years back. I don't know if he did them based on observed skills (and weaknesses) of the players he had or on "theories" of what might work regardless of who he had. I think it was the former.


    Japan needs to improve it's offense, it's scoring ability. They shouldn't just wait around and hope that all of a sudden some player just gets real good at scoring in contemporary traditional ways. I want to see them shake things up based on the skills observed. Give me a rapscallion right side :)

    Yes, Cuba had great OPPs in the past which were regular setters (never great). Maybe Aguero was on another level as she could set very well in comparison to most of the others Cuban setters.


    And things do change a lot with time. Cuba used to receive with the MBs for a few years even after the libero position was invented. Some Brazilian clubs used to do that in the past decade by using old and complete MBs (Valeskinha and Walewska mainly).


    PS: I think the system is called 4-2 and not 6-2.

    I wish the Olympics didn't get cancelled, because today we would have been done with this cycle and could move on with new blood, new vision.


    Of course, if Japan doesn't medal in this cycle their whole volleyball world might disintegrate

    Quote from sitenoise

    I wish the Olympics didn't get cancelled, because today we would have been done with this cycle and could move on with new blood, new vision.


    Of course, if Japan doesn't medal in this cycle their whole volleyball world might disintegrate

    Their men's team is overhyped and will continue to be overhyped due to that popular anime.


    Their women's NT is somewhat in shambles due to Nakada's misguided optimism and at this point, overreliance on Miyu as Hinotori's ace and key figure despite all the red flags. Kurogo also seemingly hesitant about her skills post-injury. I also have issues with Nakada putting Sato as their main setter. Probably the worst time for me to be "interested" while they're experiencing drought. But when is V League? things might still turn around. I mean just last January they were making Ishii and Koga handle the hype train then all of a sudden it's Miyu, Mayu and Kurogo. It's erratic. I can see why people getting confused now.

    Quote from sean1

    Their men's team is overhyped and will continue to be overhyped due to that popular anime.


    Their women's NT is somewhat in shambles due to Nakada's misguided optimism and at this point, overreliance on Miyu as Hinotori's ace and key figure despite all the red flags. Kurogo also seemingly hesitant about her skills post-injury. I also have issues with Nakada putting Sato as their main setter. Probably the worst time for me to be "interested" while they're experiencing drought. But when is V League? things might still turn around. I mean just last January they were making Ishii and Koga handle the hype train then all of a sudden it's Miyu, Mayu and Kurogo. It's erratic. I can see why people getting confused now.

    V.League starts in October. It's always a curious guess how much V.League influences NT. One might think Okayama's performance should have boosted Miyashita's value but I guess not. Sato's Hitachi hasn't performed well in V.League (well, they perform well, they just don't win). Seki's Toray --with three NT players besides her-- was nothing to write home about. SAGA's V.League performance was inscrutable. Koga batted 29.2 last season.

    Quote from sean1

    Their men's team is overhyped and will continue to be overhyped due to that popular anime.

    I don't think the men's team is overhyped. They improve a lot and they earn their name by themselves not a anime.


    The training of men's team is working very well in past 3 years. Also the ideology of how to compete with strong teams is clear and working. If you compared the men's team 3 or 4 years ago with current team, you will see lots of changes. And those are good ones.

    Quote from sean1

    Their women's NT is somewhat in shambles due to Nakada's misguided optimism and at this point, overreliance on Miyu as Hinotori's ace and key figure despite all the red flags. Kurogo also seemingly hesitant about her skills post-injury. I also have issues with Nakada putting Sato as their main setter. Probably the worst time for me to be "interested" while they're experiencing drought. But when is V League? things might still turn around. I mean just last January they were making Ishii and Koga handle the hype train then all of a sudden it's Miyu, Mayu and Kurogo. It's erratic. I can see why people getting confused now.


    Nakada is a terrible coach in my opinion. She can't even make up her mind who is the main setter at this moment. Recall Miyu Nagaoka back to national team is disaster decision. Miyu Nagaoka just told she can't train 100% in club team in interview months before. But Nakada insisted to recall her. What Nakada did was just tell the rest of female players in Japan that no matter how hard you work, I just pick my preferences even they are not 100% in shape. You know how hard Japanese players train to be in Tokyo Olympics? She just break their dreams. Nakada is totally terrible coach. She needed to step down 2 years ago.


    The worst part of Nakada is she has poor ideology of volleyball. She only knows "speed volleyball". She has been pushing the team to be fast to compete the strong teams. But it just doesn't work. Only being fast is just not enough to win the games. She couldn't figure another tactic to train the team. What a waste of 4 years!

    The Ferhat experiment was a disaster. I wiped the slate clean after his departure and tried to be supportive of Nakada but I've lost it.


    I'm not sad or uninterested though. They usually finish around 5th-8th in most major tournaments against big people. That's not bad for a group of 175cm weaklings.


    They went through this cycle without (arguably) their two best scorers. Knock the two best scorers off of any of the teams that beat Japan and see how they do. I know that sounds like Euro-Excuse making, but it is what it is.


    As I wrote above, I wish this cycle was over so we could move on :super: