South Korea - Women's V-League 2020-2021

  • I really hope the twins can take this time first to self-reflect and learn from it, after that I also would love to see them with the NT and not have their carreers taken from them. The main scandal was still 10 years ago after all, I don't think any of us were angels as pre-teens, I can speak for myself that I certainly wasn't.

    I second this! As kids not only was everyone a victim of bullying, but everyone also at some point participated in some form of bullying whether it be physical, verbal, emotional, mental, etc. You may not know you did it because it didn't seem like a problem then, but you don't know how that person felt or reacted when they went home.


    What the twins did was difficult to read about. If anyone did that to one of my loved ones I would be furious, but I would never ever send LDY/LJY death threats like what some people are doing. The people that wish that upon them is just making the situation worse and are being bullies themselves. Completely unnecessary.


    I really do hope they think about the pain they caused to all the victims and get some help.

  • I second this! As kids not only was everyone a victim of bullying, but everyone also at some point participated in some form of bullying whether it be physical, verbal, emotional, mental, etc. You may not know you did it because it didn't seem like a problem then, but you don't know how that person felt or reacted when they went home.

    for reals... I thought alot about my childhood too, hopefully I didn't do anything I wasn't suppose to do then that'd hunt me now. because after all the teasing and punking people, we still play and eat lunch together too

  • for reals... I thought alot about my childhood too, hopefully I didn't do anything I wasn't suppose to do then that'd hunt me now. because after all the teasing and punking people, we still play and eat lunch together too

    Same, I think it's necessary to reflect on your past and understand your mistakes to better learn from them for the future.


    I was never physically abusive, but more so said some mean stuff to the people that bullied me for being different. I hope I didn't cross the line and cause anyone trauma. Years later I found out the real reasons why my bullies acted they way they did, it was because of problems they were dealing with at home. Problems that I myself wouldn't know what to do if I was in their position. It still doesn't erase the things they did or the stuff I said, but I was able to move on from it because I now understood why it happened.

  • I'm a firm believer in second chances, especially if the faults were made before adulthood, but ONLY AFTER the person makes atonement and pays for her actions. That's why, knowing the severity of this case, I don't think it should end simply with a generic apology letter written under the guidance of a PR specialist.


    I'm not saying I'm an angel of any kind. Some 20 years ago, when I was 13-14 like the twins, I did make remarks on a regular basis that were at times racist, homophobic, sexist, fatphobic, etc... That was before social media and the new PC culture, when you could mock others in school for the color of their skin without any consequence. And that applied to everybody by the way. It didn't matter if you were White, Black, Asian, Latino, everybody made racist jokes against everybody. If someone recorded our conversations then and posted them on Twitter now, every single one of us in those classrooms would be canceled right away. It shows that the world has evolved for the better.


    However, the allegations against the twins are way above the level of the mean girls in the schoolyard or the dumb stuff you say as an immature child growing up. Those are criminal behaviors that should be severely punished and completely eradicated from this world. That's why it is my opinion that the Korean Volleyball Association should take a firm stance by banning both sisters from participating in any National Team activity for at least one year (a ban that should be prolonged if they don't show any sign of repentance). That includes the Tokyo Olympics too.


    My argument is that the KVA letting them participate in the Olympics because of how important they are to the team's success would be setting a terrible precedent by saying that unacceptable behavior will be tolerated as long as you're good at your sport. That we'll turn a blind eye to you threatening other players with a knife, beating them up and extorting their money because our team really needs you. That winning a volleyball game is more important than making justice prevail and protect human dignity. I sincerely hope that the KVA can go beyond the short term satisfaction of an Olympic victory (a medal was a long shot anyway even with the twins...) and take a real step towards making sure that generations of future volleyball players can grow up in a healthy environment. By using the twins to set an example, show to the world that no matter how talented you are, how powerful your family is, we will not accept any violence, any bullying, and you WILL be punished.


    Another reason why I think the KVA should act is that the twins didn't bully any random person in the classroom (not that it makes it any better). They hurt their teammates, other volleyball players. More than that, there were the source of a toxic culture enabled and exacerbated by an Olympian mother to make sure that everything resolves around the twins and that their desires are satisfied. The dark side of volleyball locker-room stuff should be cleaned up by the volleyball world. Today, a parent of an ex-teammate of the twins posted that the other children were basically only figureheads to warm a jersey and watch the twins play. She also heard Kim Kyung-hee (the twins' mother) coaching Da-yeong and screaming "Give the ball to your sister!".

    https://pann.nate.com/talk/357…currMenu=search&page=1&q=

    https://sports.news.naver.com/…hn?oid=109&aid=0004354084


    Yes, I am sad that the career of two talented players may be compromised. But let's look at it from another angle. How many people have QUIT volleyball because of the bullying? How many people have been deprived of their passion for volleyball because of the twins' actions? How many of them could have become professional players or simply continued playing the game had they not had their opportunities taken from them in their youth? Another victim wrote yesterday how she literally ran away to escape from the twins' rule.

    https://pann.nate.com/talk/357…nu=channel&order=B&page=1


    This is very common in sports. Instances where ex-professional athletes try to go over the coach's head and pressure/bully him/her into giving more game time for their kids. It happens in football, hockey, whatever... In this case, it is even more problematic as one of the sisters is a setter. A position responsible for distributing the ball. Someone who basically controls the plays and dictates who gets the ball. So it is not surprising at all how Lee Da-yeong would concentrate her game around making her sister shine, bypassing the other players, especially if her mother is coaching her to do so. Now where is the coach in all of this you say? Isn't it his job to make sure that every player gets an equal chance? Well, try to put yourself in his shoes. You're a middle school coach trying to grow your career. Who among you would have the balls to go against the will of an Olympian with a lot of connections in the sport, knowing full well that your future career could be compromised if you piss her off.


    A real life example of the consequences of bullying is the case of Kim Yu-ri, the middle blocker for GS Caltex. After being drafted by Heungkuk, she quit volleyball shortly after because she couldn't tolerate the constant harassment from a senior in the team. Now before you're thinking about it, I believe KYK was already abroad at that time. After "retiring" from her professional career, Kim Yu-ri had to work in a convenience store to pay her bills while also playing in a lower league. She got her big break a couple years later after being recruted by coach Lee Jeong-chul of IBK. And the rest is history. She became a starting MB, won two championships. She's doing pretty well now with GS Caltex. How many Kim Yu-ris are out there working in 7-Elevens instead of playing volleyball? If Kim Yu-ri wasn't tough as nail and didn't have the mental fortitude she had, we wouldn't be able to see the serviceable player and leader that she became. Let's not lose any more Kim Yu-ris.

    https://sports.news.naver.com/…hn?oid=005&aid=0001410758


    There is no return for the twins. At least not this year. I just don't see how they can come back in the short term. Recently, a petition to the Blue House was made imploring the Ministry of Culture and Sports to investigate school violence perpetrated by professional volleyball players. In two days, the petition reached more than 90,000 signatures. If it reaches 200,000 in a month, the presidential office will have to react to the case.

    https://www1.president.go.kr/petitions/596393


    We are at the very start of a new MeToo like movement in Korean volleyball. After the Lee sisters, two male players are now (self)banned for the rest of the year following allegations of physical bullying (the details are pretty brutal!). Today, another post was published from an alleged victim of another unnamed professional woman volleyball player (not twins). Many more will come out. We can only hope it will create change for the sport.

    https://pann.nate.com/talk/357691071


    Now, what's the next step for the twins? Steal a page from the Korean entertainment's book! Koreans do forgive! But you gotta step out for a little while. Lee Young-ja had to pause her career for almost 10 years, so did Oh Hyun-kyung. The National MC Kang Ho-dong quit the entertainment business for a year and his career really suffered for many years before getting back to the level he is at now. So the twins should take a long break (a year or so...) as a period of "self-reflection". During this time, don't even do anything volleyball related publicly. I agree with one of the posters here. Become (or at least pretend to be) a positive agent for change. Meet with the victims and apologize to them face to face. Own up to your past actions. Do good deeds to help others. Go do conferences in schools about bullying. Reveal what you did, what you were thinking when you did it, why, and tell us what you'll do in the future to help create a more positive culture in the sport. Then, when some time has passed and people start to see you in a positive light (or forget about you), come back with a press conference to bow your head and say how you'll dedicate the next part of your life to give back to volleyball, or some other BS your communication specialist will tell you to say.


    As an aside, speaking of Kim Kyung-hee, people are now revisiting an old scandal that happened in 1992. In a game, the players showed up with very visible marks of physical punishment (aka beatings) on their lower body. Only the captain, Kim Kyung-hee (Queen Mother), did not get any injury. What really happened behind the scenes. Nobody knows, but people are starting to talk about it in light of the Lee sisters scandal. Same mother, same daughters?


  • However, the allegations against the twins are way above the level of the mean girls in the schoolyard or the dumb stuff you say as an immature child growing up. Those are criminal behaviors that should be severely punished and completely eradicated from this world. That's why it is my opinion that the Korean Volleyball Association should take a firm stance by banning both sisters from participating in any National Team activity for at least one year (a ban that should be prolonged if they don't show any sign of repentance). That includes the Tokyo Olympics too.

    Maybe it's a cultural or translation issue, but I find the characterization of the Lee twins' actions as "bullying" to be misleading at best. Threatening someone with a knife is criminal behavior if you do it out on the streets, just because you're in a school doesn't change that to "bullying". And like you hinted/said (I've expressed this opinion before in this thread), I don't think their mother (KKH) should get a pass -- she actively encouraged this behavior and unlike the Lee sisters, she was a grown adult and can't hide behind age.

    I'm not saying I'm an angel of any kind. Some 20 years ago, when I was 13-14 like the twins, I did make remarks on a regular basis that were at times racist, homophobic, sexist, fatphobic, etc... That was before social media and the new PC culture, when you could mock others in school for the color of their skin without any consequence.

    This is the kind of behavior that comes to mind when I hear "bullying" (edit: not that it is right but it's significantly worse than criminal behavior). Not threatening someone with a knife.

  • Their mother sounds like a straight a** b*tch. Does anybody have any details on this? Did the mother actually encourage and participate in the bullying? Or was it turning a blind eye?


    Thank you for the post econmtl, and for that little tidbit about Kim Yuri. She recently won MVP during a match and the whole team rallied around her while she gave the interview. Very emotional moment where the commentator cried and then Kim Yuri cried and then everybody cried.

  • Their mother sounds like a straight a** b*tch. Does anybody have any details on this? Did the mother actually encourage and participate in the bullying? Or was it turning a blind eye?

    sounds like a tiger mom, wonder how the twins childhood was like in their own home, even forcing dayeong to train being lefty since it's rare.

  • Maybe it's a cultural or translation issue, but I find the characterization of the Lee twins' actions as "bullying" to be misleading at best. Threatening someone with a knife is criminal behavior if you do it out on the streets, just because you're in a school doesn't change that to "bullying". And like you hinted/said (I've expressed this opinion before in this thread), I don't think their mother (KKH) should get a pass -- she actively encouraged this behavior and unlike the Lee sisters, she was a grown adult and can't hide behind age.

    The mother is giving me Fire Lord Ozai vibes from ATLA and a bit of Azula from the twins.


    I agree, what the twins did was beyond the typical harmless teenage bullying. It went way too far when they threatened them with a knife. Using an object and not just any object, but a weapon, something sharp that can really cause harm and or death to intimidate others is a felon. At that age they should already know what is wrong, but the twins still did it anyway thinking it was all fun and games.


    I wonder if all these ideas was something they thought of on their own or was it something the mom told them to do and if they didn't the mom would've abused them.

  • sounds like a tiger mom, wonder how the twins childhood was like in their own home, even forcing dayeong to train being lefty since it's rare.

    I was beginning to think the same thing! Only close friends and family members truly know what happened in that household.

  • sounds like a tiger mom, wonder how the twins childhood was like in their own home, even forcing dayeong to train being lefty since it's rare.


    you'd think she'd make the other twin (LJY) be a lefty since LDY is a setter who doesn't hit the ball... only thing good for being a lefty setter is to play the dump more easily (which happens like 5 times in a game?? and that's a lot) whereas hitters hit the ball like 50 times and you have the supposed advantage of being a lefty each time.

    I wonder if all these ideas was something they thought of on their own or was it something the mom told them to do and if they didn't the mom would've abused them.

    I don't believe their mother is innocent. No way. Maybe encouraged, maybe forced, but definitely involved.

  • zhutingfan definitely agree about the mom. and maybe she made wrong seemed right and right seemed like rewards. but regardless, I'm starting to feel like because mom was not disciplined during her shiny days while others were, so the continues onto her daughters making them think it okay to mistreat others because it was acceptable in their mother's days, because it was a way of "teaching".


    I'm talking from experience, as I work and train people, at one point I realize how hard it was on my trainee because of my training. before then I didn't think it was wrong and reported every wrong my trainee did to my boss, because that's what I was told to do in order to help her help them improve. I saw her cry and realized the training I went through was like military training, I didn't know when to sit or if I can sit, I went through it and passed because of my will, but does everyone have the same will? I don't know. now I refuse to train unless I can train my way at my pace and no private talks with the boss. yes she means well, yes she wants to pass her skills and knowledge before she retires, and she almost turned me into a bissh lol but this is 2021, many things has updated and change. the "we use to do it this way" doesn't work anymore.


    so hopefully not just the twins but the mom too should apologize and reflect.

  • The acts the twins did were unacceptable and shocking despite their young age.

    However all humans make mistakes and its really tough to judge what they did right/ wrong when we ourselves also are imperfect.

    I definitely believe in 2nd chances and hope time will heal all the hurt and suffering of the victims and even the perpetrators also need help actually.


    LDY is by far the "best" setter in terms of skillset/ ability (not sure about mental) in South Korea. LJY as well as one of the more lethal outside hitters.

    This is a huge blow as a fan of south korea volleyball (I'm a GS Caltex fan).


    I really hope the twins can play overseas as well and start a new chapter (not disappear into cold storage) and also come back as better players and humans.


    Moral of the story:- don't use Instagram...

  • more like don't throw stones in glass houses if you ask me... or better yet don't put yourself in a glass house in the first place.