Like this isn't like playing Football Manager 2007 it's about life's.
In a pathetic effort to bring some levity to this debate, I have to say Football Manager 2004 For Life!
Politics and social issues
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Beri sorry but if you really hate western world, why dont you go and live in Russia? I really mean it. Whataboutism coming from people living in western world and crticising it while living in that comfort really does not make sense.
Besides all, are we seriously comparing a country where people accidentally fall from windows after criticising government to the western world? At least in the western world, you can read these things in the news, imagine how much you are not reading about Russia.
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Nothing new there, that's basically every major war that happened.
True definitely, I guess I'm just grossed out by humanity in general 😂 or at least the "higher-ups" among us. But like I've seen videos send to me or on my feed celebrating body counts on Russians, someone send me *trigger warning*
Like this has become a game for some.
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Beri sorry but if you really hate western world, why dont you go and live in Russia? I really mean it. Whataboutism coming from people living in western world and crticising it while living in that comfort really does not make sense.
Besides all, are we seriously comparing a country where people accidentally fall from windows after criticising government to the western world? At least in the western world, you can read these things in the news, imagine how much you are not reading about Russia.
Well there was no need to get personal and make assumptions about me but if you are so curious.
I'm doing my studies and making use of some of that stolen wealth 😂 I don't plan living here, my friend lives in Vietnam actually and I'm planning to move in with her. I visited it already before and loved it a lot. Another option we had was Rwanda.
This is btw a common point for the far-right here who really think they've blessed the minorities allowing them the privilige of living in their uneventful country. "Well go live in your own country then" I actually was born here
it wasn't my choice to live in this country lmao and when I could take a year exchange I took my first chance, next step is moving away indeed 
My point isn't to demonize the west anyway, surely it has good sides, but these are so well known and told to us over and over again making it seem like it's this flawless place, which is so far from the reality. I'm just the type of person that will bring the unpopular perspective forward, like it or not. Everyone sees things differently, just because it's not the mainstream vision doesn't make it less valid
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and you know what is disgusting, calling this war a proxy war when Ukrainians simply fight for defending their land and ideals and trying to build a better future for their children, not just being exploited by another oligarch. I guess Beri would be happy if someone called Turkish independence war a proxy war too. Anyway I shut up here, I simply don't agree with most of the people here. Only thing we agree on is, war is bad and peace is better, but keep in mind who started this war too when you mention this please and how this war would never start if Russian forces simply never entered Ukraine.
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Well there was no need to get personal and make assumptions about me but if you are so curious.
I'm doing my studies and making use of some of that stolen wealth 😂 I don't plan living here, my friend lives in Vietnam actually and I'm planning to move in with her. I visited it already before and loved it a lot. Another option we had was Rwanda.
This is btw a common point for the far-right here who really think they've blessed the minorities allowing them the privilige of living in their uneventful country. "Well go live in your own country then" I actually was born here
it wasn't my choice to live in this country lmao and when I could take a year exchange I took my first chance, next step is moving away indeed My point isn't to demonize the west anyway, surely it has good sides, but these are so well known and told to us over and over again making it seem like it's this flawless place, which is so far from the reality. I'm just the type of person that will bring the unpopular perspective forward, like it or not. Everyone sees things differently, just because it's not the mainstream vision doesn't make it less valid
Not sure if you will like Rwanda or Vietnam but in any case, I am a realist. I know west has many defaults and past mistakes but at the current state, at least west allows you to talk and criticise publicly. Imagine you were a Ukrainian and your two options are: (1) being under Russian control, which is both economically devastating and you never know when you will see police on your door or (2) being part of EU, where you at least have a fine control mechanism and more freedom of speech. When I compare these two, I understand why Ukrainians are fighting today, I actually don't understand why others are not fighting such as Belarus.
I get your point. Noone is perfect and we should of course criticise them. However, a better alternative is still one step forward.
Anyway, I hope you find a place where your ideas match to the place.
Btw, Serbs of the forum, we all know why you support Russia honeys. This no to war etc., you really don't need it.
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When it comes to proxy war or whatever. Ukrainians voted, elected a leader who promised them EU etc (I think he got around 70% of votes). Invading such a country simply means, "we will take over you and forcefully try to change each of your opinions". I believe this is working exactly the other way around so far. If western countries wanted to assimilate Ukraine from Russia, they could not do it so quickly. But thanks to Putin and all the war crimes, hate towards Russia has reached to another level in Ukraine. Invade it all if you can, question is, how will you control all those 40 millions of people hating you?
It's hard to say that because Ukraine before Maidan was a divided society. West and north regions are Pro-EU and South and east regions are Pro-Russia. I'll show you two maps:
First: Yellow is the Pro-EU party and Blue is the Pro-Russia party in the elections before Maidan
Second: Linguistic map of Ukraine
In 2014 there was a coup against the pro-Russian elected president and since then the Russian-speaking population had fewer rights than before. AFAIK, even pro-Russian regions voted in favor of Zelensky because he promised peace and they trusted that Russian man who speaks fluently Russian and was born and raised in a Russian-speaking city (Krivoi Rog). Being in the EU isn't the main reason Zelensky was elected because we all know that is hard for Ukraine to get there. Let's be honest, Ukraine was the poorest country and the most corrupt country in Europe since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Idk why that happened. Even Belarus is doing way better if you compare both. EU won't ever accept them (they don't even accept Turkey)... Ukraine in the EU could be a ruin for the EU. BTW, Ukraine had a pro-EU president (I think in 2005-2010) even before Maidan and that didn't go well. There wasn't a reason to make a coup against the pro-Russian elected president.
Of course, invading Ukraine was bad. Even some Russian-speaking population now hates speaking Russian. That's why I think the Russians are going after the Russian-speaking regions and cities like Kherson, Odessa, Kharkov, etc because it's easier to handle for them. Maybe you wonder why those regions and Dombass and Crimea speak Russian. Well, it's because they are Russian and those cities were founded by Russians. How did they get within the Ukrainian borders? Ask Lenin and Bolcheviques! IMO, the Minsk agreement was a win-win for all parties... Dombas regions within Ukraine's borders with autonomy, but they didn't respect that. Ukraine was getting militarily stronger these last years with USA's support and there were a lot of rumors before Russia invaded that Zelensky's army was going to fully attack and tried to get the remaining cities of these regions (Donetsk: 900k population, Lugansk: 400k, Makeeva: 340k, Gorlovka: 241k, etc). Almost 7M live in Dombas and it's sad to see what's happening there. Once in the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire Dombas was called the heart of the country! They even were, besides Kiev, the richest regions in Ukraine before Maidan. I hope all ends soon. I don't care if it's under Ukrainian or Russian rule. People there have suffered a lot. They just need a government that respects the language they want to talk and their customs.
BTW, the other day I read one of your comments saying that Russia should be banned forever for threatening neighbor countries... I ask you two questions, aren't Turkish troops in Cyprus and Syria? Does Turkey get along with Greece and Armenia? You may reply to me that Turkish troops are there to help the Turkish population... well, Russia is allegedly there trying to help the Russian population.
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and you know what is disgusting, calling this war a proxy war when Ukrainians simply fight for defending their land and ideals and trying to build a better future for their children, not just being exploited by another oligarch. I guess Beri would be happy if someone called Turkish independence war a proxy war too. Anyway I shut up here, I simply don't agree with most of the people here. Only thing we agree on is, war is bad and peace is better, but keep in mind who started this war too when you mention this please and how this war would never start if Russian forces simply never entered Ukraine.
What? Ukraine is one of the countries with the most oligarchs. In all these last years they get the same status... that's why they say Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe.
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Btw, Serbs of the forum, we all know why you support Russia honeys. This no to war etc., you really don't need it.
Cute, but:
1) Fuck you and your condescending, smarmy attitude
2)You know nothing about me, and therefore can't possibly know how I despise Putin and my fellow-countryman's Russophile sentiments
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Turkey was defending its borders in Syria. I don't remember Ukrainians attacking Belgorod for example, until the war started.
When it comes to Cyprus, Turkey was a guaranteer country by agreements, so it had the rights to be involved in such a situation.
However, if Turkey gets banned due to these reasons, I am fine with it. Maybe I am not objective enough and someone should bring opinions and sports people should raise their voices.
Opinions change a lot actually. In 2014, I guess noone offered them EU. Among the blue areas. you also have Kharkiv region. You should also check the recent updates from that oblast to see how public opinion changed.
And language maps are dumb unfortunately. Almost entire Crimea speaks Russian, if I am not mistaken a majority of Odessa too. But Russian supporters are not as many as you think in these areas.
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What? Ukraine is one of the countries with the most oligarchs. In all these last years they get the same status... that's why they say Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe.
And can this be the reason they want to join the EU and break the status quo? and can that be the reason why Russia does not want them to join the EU?
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Almost entire Crimea speaks Russian
because Khruschev gave it to Ukraine SSR in 1954...
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Cute, but:
1) Fuck you and your condescending, smarmy attitude
2)You know nothing about me, and therefore can't possibly know how I despise Putin and my fellow-countryman's Russophile sentiments
Yes and I will like every comment posted, saying Ukraine is wrong. Not cute.
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because Khruschev gave it to Ukraine SSR in 1954...
Exactly, then I guess it is Ukraine´s land? We can go deeper into what makes a land whose etc but that's beyond langugae and ethnicity. People with same ethnicity can vote different in a referandum where they feel like their ideology is well represented on the other side, like beri's as an example. More importantly, how was the ethnicity built there, was it systematically populated in a certain way etc.
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About 100 years ago the population was Crimean Tatar (Turkic) mostly actually with about 80-85% of the population belonging to the group. They were mostly ethnically cleansed/deported.
The thing is we can't really look at modern issues and consequences with a historical eye. We can only focus on what we can do now, and looking at now I don't see anyone really doing any better and that's my issue. I see a whole lot of people pretending they are, it's become a game of marketing at this point, proxy wars. And whoever sells it better is the hero. Well I just stopped supporting anyone, politically.
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The fact that the west is better at a few things compared to other countries holds literally no value to any issues I've spoken about. Its irrelevant frankly. They're richer and at a better place socially, well then I'll give them double responsibility over their actions if anything. Easier to speak up here then in Russia, right. Where? I'm doing my part at least.
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Exactly, then I guess it is Ukraine´s land? We can go deeper into what makes a land whose etc but that's beyond langugae and ethnicity. People with same ethnicity can vote different in a referandum where they feel like their ideology is well represented on the other side, like beri's as an example. More importantly, how was the ethnicity built there, was it systematically populated in a certain way etc.
Legally, yes, it's Ukraine's land, and if Russia object they (rather, the Russian SSR) should not have recognized those borders in 1991.
Culturally and linguistically, it would explain them being Russian speaking, since it was Russian territory for who knows how long before 1954.
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Btw, Serbs of the forum, we all know why you support Russia honeys. This no to war etc., you really don't need it.
LoL, EU speech freedom left the chat.
Literally nothing to do with Russian invasion. I support Beri critics towards western europe, because it is literally the same things that i discuss a lot with my friends and people around me in general. That all being said while i'm dsigust (but honestly not surprised) with Putin propaganda (popular in Serbia among right wing, but even as a hobby). If we have to choose side i would call myself as 100% pro west (not EU) man in every sense, i'm just mad at people that so oftenly have tends to idealize that matter of "comfort" living in western world. A pandemic of narrowed consciousness among western europeans. But i can't blame anyone, maybe my stand is consequence of matter that being a Serb gives me a "privilege" not living that comfort, and i learnt that i have to develop a mechanism of doubt in order to survive mentally in the obscure society in which we live.
I will attribute the chauvinist outburst to obvious elitism. I'm proud because i'm Serb, but at the same time maybe even more proud because that i am deviating from those sloppy prejudices and malicious labels that often appear also on this forum and are related to Serbs (and others, of course, but now I am commenting on this case specifically). At the same time, unfortunately, I cannot deny their embodiment in real life.
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Wars and victories were always about marketing, throughout the entire history. This is not new. Almost always, history books were written, declaring the winner the right side.
Good that you mentioned the Tatars of Crimea btw. A very good example of how Russians worked under Soviet Union. That's also what I mean that language, ethnicity etc are not enough. Only solution is to make a proper referandum, asking people what they want and there they can consider which is more important to them, language, ethnicity or ideology.
I criticise western world a lot when it comes to what they did in Africa for example and today demanding sustainable solutions in the continent, which is like a joke. I also believe west should pay for the harm they did there. But these don't justify what Russia is doing. To me, Russian government is violent and raping a country's freedom and nothing that the western world did can justify or excuse what Russia is doing today.
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Legally, yes, it's Ukraine's land, and if Russia object they (rather, the Russian SSR) should not have recognized those borders in 1991.
Culturally and linguistically, it would explain them being Russian speaking, since it was Russian territory for who knows how long before 1954.
Check also what Beri wrote to see how absurd this is. Let me invade a place, change the population and then give it to someone and then ask it back...
