Politics and social issues

    Kim Yeon koung on racism:


    "Once, after the Russian coach won the game, he did that eye pulling gesture in front of a camera.

    But we are all the same people. We are all just people. To be discriminated against because of your appearance is very upsetting."


    Quote from avid

    CNN covered the twins transfer... that's weird


    https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/01…yball-spt-intl/index.html

    What I do not get personally is that bullying is such a big deal here, and that the masses desire the twins to be persona non grata in South Korea because of it. I mean, bullying and team sports is a combination as usual as pasta and Italy or kebab and Turkey, its almost as if the two parts are intertwined with each other. One friend of mine, albeit a basketball-player, used to play in the college system in US and according to her, virtually all teams seemed to be using tyrannical, dictator-like, sect-style, authoritarian leading styles where bullying naturally grew rampant and a natural ingredient to effectivize players, discipline, dehumanize them and make them robotic machines obsessed with achievement.


    Here are some recent media stories of reported bullying within the context of female volleyball in the US:


    https://www.espn.com/womens-co…former-coach-cam-newbauer


    https://leads.ap.org/best-of-t…vironment-at-oregon-state


    https://usatodayhss.com/2018/b…time-n-y-volleyball-coach


    https://chicago.suntimes.com/2…uit-over-sex-abuse-claims


    https://eu.indystar.com/story/…abuse-lawsuit/5705130001/


    https://www.businesswire.com/n…by-DiCello-Levitt-Gutzler


    There are 100+ more reports, for sure, but this was just a brief summary that I was able to find during 3-4 min of research. I am sure the US isnt worse than any other country, its just more transparency with regard to this issue there than in other regions such as Europe and Asia. I have personally witnessed coach bullying in pro teams in virtually every game that I have been a spectator at in Europe (Hungary, Italy, Sweden, France, Poland) i.e incidents such as where the coach points at his head with the index finger and accuse the particular player of being stupid through this sign.

    The twins bullied their teammate when they were in HS not within their professional team nor in the NT training to be robots although they did try to gang up on KYK but flopped miserably via social media


    Anyway I disagree with your long opinion but I do think their punishment should be different as they are key players in their country.

    Quote from Playmaker

    The twins bullied their teammate when they were in HS not within their professional team nor in the NT training to be robots although they did try to gang up on KYK but flopped miserably via social media


    Anyway I disagree with your long opinion but I do think their punishment should be different as they are key players in their country.

    I do not find, personally speaking, bullying more acceptable just because it has an "honorable" aim such as making players more effective. For me, the end does not justify the means. However, I understand in case some people argue differently.

    Inflicting psychological/physical pain is not a form of discipline nor is it healthy for any athlete. There are other ways to make one stronger without the need for such toxic behaviour towards another person. If you wanna train robots then pick a different profession. I'm talking in general not specifically about the twins.

    Quote from 777

    Inflicting psychological/physical pain is not a form of discipline nor is it healthy for any athlete. There are other ways to make one stronger without the need for such toxic behaviour towards another person. If you wanna train robots then pick a different profession. I'm talking in general not specifically about the twins.

    In the article linked to below, one author who pursued a team sport path at an elite-level explains how bullying might be used as a tactic or strategy for team achievement. Here is an excerpt from this former athlete´s writing about the issue:

    Purposes of Bullying in Sports

    Bullying in sports is often done for purposes of socializing team members to behave in ways that enhance team performance in at least three ways. First, sports require a certain level of mental toughness. Enduring an atmosphere of bullying can build mental toughness and enhance performance under pressure. Second, athletes must often consider the goals of the team above individual goals in order for the team to succeed. Bullying in sports can strip an athlete of individuality and rebuild his identity based primarily on being a member of the team. Third, performance is enhanced when athletes know they have the support of teammates in accomplishing a common goal. Bullying can expose those athletes who seek only individual accomplishment and are unwilling to make individual sacrifices for team improvement. Those athletes are faced with the choice of leaving the team or enduring continued bullying.


    https://sportsconflict.org/effects-of-bullying-in-sports/

    There’s no doubt bullying is widespread, especially in the context of team sports. Even more, I agree that it can be “useful” in the ways that the above article indicates but that doesn’t mean that it should be considered in any way acceptable.


    Let’s look at this: “Enduring an atmosphere of bullying can build mental toughness and enhance performance under pressure.”

    Well yeah it can. Or it can do the opposite. Everyone is different and I bet there are tons of good players across sports that never made it because they couldn’t deal with the bullying. That doesn’t at all mean that they couldn’t deal with tough times on the court/pitch/whatever because the competitive atmosphere of an actual match is different from being tormented in day-to-day interactions with people.


    “Bullying in sports can strip an athlete of individuality and rebuild his identity based primarily on being a member of the team.”

    Eh, it’s debatable whether you would even want this in a sporting context. Players need to have confidence in themselves that they, as individuals, can make the difference. Feeling part of a team is important but so is personal belief in yourself. Out with sport, in a personal context this is horrible thing to try to force upon anyone. Stripping people of their individuality and identity? Yikes.


    “performance is enhanced when athletes know they have the support of teammates in accomplishing a common goal. Bullying can expose those athletes who seek only individual accomplishment and are unwilling to make individual sacrifices for team improvement“

    I don’t see how bullying someone shows them any support whatsoever. Why the hell would someone who’s being bullied want to make sacrifices for a bunch of people who are behaving like jerks?

    “Those athletes are faced with the choice of leaving the team or enduring continued bullying.“

    Isn’t that nice? Sorry, I love sports and when I play I take it very seriously, even if it’s just with a bunch of friends but being successful at sports is not a good enough reason to sacrifice human decency or treat other people as inferior. Luckily you don’t have to: you can be good at sport and a nice person too.


    I’m also surprised the twins’ bullying is being taken so seriously, but I’m glad it is. The sooner this kind of attitude is removed from sports, and life for that matter, the better. With that said though, there does have to be a limit to it. People change and the twins don’t deserve to suffer the consequences of that dumb stuff they did forever.


    I’m not going to say anymore here because it’s completely. :offtopic:

    Quote from hakin12

    Purposes of Bullying in Sports

    Bullying in sports is often done for purposes of socializing team members to behave in ways that enhance team performance in at least three ways. First, sports require a certain level of mental toughness. Enduring an atmosphere of bullying can build mental toughness and enhance performance under pressure. Second, athletes must often consider the goals of the team above individual goals in order for the team to succeed. Bullying in sports can strip an athlete of individuality and rebuild his identity based primarily on being a member of the team. Third, performance is enhanced when athletes know they have the support of teammates in accomplishing a common goal. Bullying can expose those athletes who seek only individual accomplishment and are unwilling to make individual sacrifices for team improvement. Those athletes are faced with the choice of leaving the team or enduring continued bullying.

    Reading that I thought the article must have come from The Onion :aww:

    Quote from Sisko

    I’m also surprised the twins’ bullying is being taken so seriously, but I’m glad it is. The sooner this kind of attitude is removed from sports, and life for that matter, the better. With that said though, there does have to be a limit to it. People change and the twins don’t deserve to suffer the consequences of that dumb stuff they did forever.

    Sorry in advance for :offtopic:(just from someone who followed the news on this in Korea)


    Just wanna say that its bs that "bullying is being taken seriously" in Korea cause of this lol (not @ you, just on this topic in general)

    Bullying is a huge issue in Korea (schools, workplaces, and worst of all, their military), but literally nothing is being done about it to change the system/culture of seniority that allows it to happen. At best they punish the perpetrators more severely when it gets into the news.


    While the Korean volleyball association seem to be using the twins to "set an example" since volleyball was fairly clean from such issues unlike baseball in Korea, their double standards is beyond me.
    There was a male korean vball player who literally physically bullied a schoolmate so badly he needed surgery in the hospital, he was forgiven for it. Another male player (current top in the league) is currently being accused of sexual harassment & secretly filming (a crime) his ex-gf, but the KVA and media literally don't give a damn about him & issued no suspension at all. He's just "sitting out" of games now while the court case is ongoing.


    Twins' case on the other hand, how its being treated so drastically in comparison is so absurd to me.

    You can watch their interview where they say the bullying accusations were false (except for one, which they already apologized for back when it happened)

    i.e. the accusation of "stealing money" was simply the team collecting 50cents (500krw) from each team player when they didn't train seriously, which included the twins.

    It all started from an anonymous post on a forum, which KVA never investigated whether was true or not before suspending them from playing entirely (both National Team & refusing to let them play overseas)

    Of course, their lawsuit is still ongoing, so it can go both ways, but doesn't change that it was >10years ago💀 (still not right, but all this punishment for it?!)


    As for why its being reported so much in Korea & internationally, probably their popularity before all this - any article about them gets tons of views,

    and also mainly them drawing the ire from KYK's fans

    Quote from Playmaker

    they did try to gang up on KYK but flopped miserably via social media

    which is also absurd, because 1. Jaeyeong didn't use social media publicly 2. Dayeong never mentioned another player's name nor volleyball in her posts lol (they were rants and reposts of quotes) which were posted many months before any report of internal team conflict.

    Fans even originally thought her indirect posts were made towards another senior on the team (Kim Nahee), who then replied in a DM to a fan and clarified it wasn't her and said that DY apologized to her for causing such a misunderstanding.
    (also, if they intended to gang up on KYK, I don't see why they would praise KYK in almost every interview they had lol, even up till 2021 they were doing so)


    The accusations made towards them kept snowballing ridiculously cause of the hate, like YouTube videos claiming they got pregnant, saying their mom dictated their professional club's training:what: (their coach shut down this rumour lol), so you just keep getting more and more media attention on them cause there's zero fact-checking before journalists report on these claims for the clicks.



    It's up to Korea if they don't let them return to the National Team & if no local club signs them, but it's ridiculous to even block them from playing overseas.

    Wanna add that I think any personal bullying has no place in society regardless, but strict team punishments (i.e. extra drills if you fail to complete xxx) is fine.

    But, pretty damn sure 95% of athletes in Korea (maybe worldwide) have either bullied or been bullied before.

    I mean, heck, even in normal life, who hasn't experienced a form of bullying (being excluded, talked bad about, mean pranks, etc) Its just the severity of it.

    The documentary "Bad Sport" has been released today by Netflix. This six-part series digs deep into the dark side of the games with match fixing etc, as we see the beauty and pure competition of sports sullied by athletes, officials and shadowy outsiders who are motivated by political self-interest or blind ambition or greed or a deadly blending of two or three of the aforementioned. The producers tell the stories of a number of figures who scurried down the rabbit hole into a world of corruption and paid high prices for their crimes and indiscretions.


    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15402912/

    Quote from Sisko

    Reading that I thought the article must have come from The Onion :aww:

    Well, when reading that one might very well get the sense the pro sport team setting is comparable to the political party environment in Orwell´s dystopian book "1984". And that the relationship dynamic between leaders and pupils is genuinely resembling the one between O´Brien and Winston Smith.


    I remember when O´Brien tells Winston in 1984: "There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. ... Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless."


    In case we re-formulate this into a team sport context, then it might sound like this: "There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Team. There will be no love, except the love of Big Coach. There will no no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy on the court. There will be no art, no literature, no science...Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of spiking a ball over an enemy who is helpless in his or her ability to defend it".

    Can we talk about the Lee twins scandal in this thread? (I mean I'm not sure where else would be appropriate and I seriously think it deserves a separated thread with all the crazy stuff that happened.)


    Either way, from what I've gathered around the internet, today, TV Chosun released an interview with Lee DY's husband (which is how everyone found out that DY got married in 2018 :S). He was accusing her of domestic violence, said she has been abusing him verbally and physically. He now needs treatment for depression, panic disorder and insomnia. He's filing for divorce. Also according to him, DY wielded a knife (sounds familiar?) during a fight between her and JY.


    Interview and articles (Korean):


    https://n.news.naver.com/sports/volleyball/article/109/0004488351

    https://n.news.naver.com/sport…ll/article/468/0000793305


    At this point I feel like the biggest victim is probably Lee JY. How deep was she involved in the school violence? Not sure but obviously the knife accusation (the biggest one) was geared towards DY. She certainly wasn't involved in the Instagram thing about KYK (if that's what really happened). She was playing volleyball happily in Pink Spider, was the main gun of the team, until her sister joined and made those IG posts that triggered the school violence victims. Now she's having a hard time getting back to volleyball, and the reporters are bothering her with this new scandal cuz they can't contact DY.


    Meanwhile, twins have obtained their athlete visas and will leave Korea on the 16th.

    http://m.mydaily.co.kr/new/rea…newsid=202110090132398061

    Quote from innay

    Also according to him, DY wielded a knife (sounds familiar?) during a fight between her and JY.

    she pulled a knife on her twin sister?? OK pulling a knife is bad on anyone in general but on your own twin sister... I heard twins view their counterparts sort of as an extension of themselves so that's really something.

    Saw that news too, but it seemed so one-sided & like a whole damn k-drama:cheesy:, that I held back lol

    (the timing of this is also right after the twins received their ITC & visa before heading to Greece)


    Anyway DY's side refuted his allegations, and said they were married in 2018 before divorcing after 4 months. Claims that he has been blackmailing her for 500million krw (~$500K) or real estate property for divorce settlements, otherwise he would reveal their past marriage which is her private life.

    Maybe he felt like this was his last chance before they left for Greece.

    (female volleyball players in Korea are treated like idol celebrities and held to that same standard too, so revealing their marriage would've been quite bad for her, also for her personal life)


    Still surprising she used to be married, but personally I'd rather not find out about an athlete's personal life (unless they committed a horrid crime and is charged in law for it), and just watch them play volley


    Though, if the dude is who I think he is, I don't think DY necessarily tried hiding it when they were together, they went around together quite publicly. There were also rumours back in 2018 she wanted to retire to get married. A fan shared that back in 2019 she shared her ex-bf cheated on her so she broke up with him though. (ofc, with all stories, can be one-sided)


    Most twins can be closer than anyone, but also fight harder than anyone haha, I wonder if the story he told was true, but its clear that they both are still very close and supportive of one another.

    JY herself once said she punched DY so hard when they were younger that she "almost killed her" cause DY got so stunned she had drool come out of her mouth lol. She said after that incident she no longer fought so hard again:lol:

    How much mentally she abused him can be seen from her messages. She shows how disgusting human being she is when she says "I hope You die of a heartattack" and "I will have someone to kill you" Those who still defending her, Wake up

    Quote from zhutingfan

    she pulled a knife on her twin sister?? OK pulling a knife is bad on anyone in general but on your own twin sister... I heard twins view their counterparts sort of as an extension of themselves so that's really something.

    He said it happened in front of their parents (I'm not sure whose parents though).


    The link you posted says they're separated, not divorced. But the divorce is in process. That's how he's been making those demands.


    I feel like calling this DY's side adding more to the story is more accurate than "refuted his claim". I don't think they said that the stuff he said was false, but rather them saying that he was a douchebag as well.


    Maybe both sides are telling the truth about the other, and just hiding the bad stuff that they do themselves. He's bad doesn't mean that she's good, and vice versa.

    well all this is just gossip tabloid news lol, surprising/interesting to read but so messy and "my side of the story" "your side of the story"

    I rather they bring it to court to settle rather than air it out on public broadcasts and whine about things


    Let the court and law decide before revealing it, I don't get why he's going on broadcast to talk about his poor marriage lol

    Quote from suminj

    Still surprising she used to be married, but personally I'd rather not find out about an athlete's personal life (unless they committed a horrid crime and is charged in law for it), and just watch them play volley


    Though, if the dude is who I think he is, I don't think DY necessarily tried hiding it when they were together, they went around together quite publicly. There were also rumours back in 2018 she wanted to retire to get married. A fan shared that back in 2019 she shared her ex-bf cheated on her so she broke up with him though. (ofc, with all stories, can be one-sided)

    I was reading about the twins scandal on this forum and tbqh I think you know too much about the twins and this scandal to say that you don't care about athlete's personal life haha. I dare say you know about this topic more than any of us here.


    I mean right after you said you don't want to know about their life, you also said that you have a hint who DY's husband is, while she's been trying to keep her marriage out of the public's eye. Then you shared stuff about her personal life that I bet the majority of us (including me lol) have no idea about.


    Just saying, you may be in this deeper than you think my friend :cheesy:.


    Quote from suminj

    JY herself once said she punched DY so hard when they were younger that she "almost killed her" cause DY got so stunned she had drool come out of her mouth lol. She said after that incident she no longer fought so hard again

    This is another one I don't know lol. But sadly I'll never be able to read stories of the twins fighting each other or fighting with someone else in a lighthearted or jokingly way again after all these violence allegations.

    Quote from innay

    I dare say you know about this topic more than any of us here.

    Just saying, you may be in this deeper than you think my friend :cheesy:.

    You're not wrong, I do admit am in deep haha

    Cause I am following their news - mostly to see if they'll play volleyball again & also since their previous case is still being investigated. But I come upon these other news as well, which is hard to avoid once you already come upon it😵‍💫


    I think what I just mean is, if I had a choice to know or not to know, I'd rather not find out about her private life - wish the news wouldn't report on these.

    Korean sport athletes are treated like idol celebrities and held to that standard unlike in other countries, quite scary.


    Well I wouldn't worry about the relationship between her & JY tbh, they're fine.
    Though regarding twins, I did read that while most twins can't live without one another and have a special bond, there are some cases where the twins cannot stand each other and live separate lives entirely due to differences. Interesting topic lol