S.Korea - 2021-2022 V-League (Women)

There are only a few senior players in Altos that I'm guessing have that kind of "influence".. only 4 that I'm sure of .. though 1 of them I'm not sure is still around this season...

But this kind of rumor is really not good,,, I just hope it will not blow up out of proportion that spread to other teams as well.

Quote from motodle

Hipass

Not sure if it's solely a Park Jeongah problem or a PJA-setter matching problem but Park Jeongah keeps landing on her butt after spiking. Happens with both Lee Goeun and Lee Yunjung. Kelsie looks completely fine every time she spikes.

I just notice that...LOL

I think she didn't have problem like that with Lee Hyo Hee.. Also with Yeum HS, LDY, and An HJ in NT ...

Quote from motodle

Hipass

Not sure if it's solely a Park Jeongah problem or a PJA-setter matching problem but Park Jeongah keeps landing on her butt after spiking. Happens with both Lee Goeun and Lee Yunjung. Kelsie looks completely fine every time she spikes.

Quote from ian3373

I just notice that...LOL

I think she didn't have problem like that with Lee Hyo Hee.. Also with Yeum HS, LDY, and An HJ in NT ...

There were also a couple of times when she landed awkwardly in Olympics. Some of the sets were actually not that bad that I sometimes thought she's doing it purposely to shift the weight off her ankle on landing since she already had an ankle surgery before (This is purely an assumption and I'm not an expert in sports science )

If true that this issue has been ongoing in IBK since before the change of coach from Kim Woojae to Seo Namwon, then it's very clear that senior players really did play a role in this issue.

Kim Woojae is well known to be a really gentle styled coach (fun fact: used to be Ahn Hyejin's high school coach), IBK replaced Lee Jung Cheol (too strict/fierce) with Kim Woojae in order to have a change in franchise image after all.

Seo Namwon never had such issues coaching KGC in the past (not that I'm aware of), and I don't believe Kim Woojae is a coach would've crossed any personal boundaries with the players outside of training.

Quote

Former head coach Kim Woo-jae gave opportunities to motivated young players instead of senior players who were insincere in training. As a result, senior players openly expressed dissatisfaction. It was consistent with sabotage play.

Once again, prefacing this with "if true", then its disappointing. Their younger players have so much potential.

If Yang Hyojin can step aside for Jiyoon and Dahyeon to play on Hillstate, then what of IBK's senior players.

IBK Soup Shuttle incident - if to be taken seriously, then its definitely on the senior players, and nothing to do with the coach or management too.

I dont know which news to believed but i saw one on naver, how lee jeong cheol was sacked from ibk, after missing the playoff the front office secretly ask player to vote to keep or sacked LJC. Apparently this make player position is bigger then it should be.

honestly i dont know who to believe anymore, Each fandom tried to exclude their player from the faction.

Okay, apparently as I was writing this post, article editing happened AGAIN, and from my understanding, Kim Heejin from being "the senior player" has become "not one of those senior players." I had to put what were edited in bold. WTF is going on seriously.

--------------------------------------

After I complained that these articles were not giving out names, this one is doing it. And it's Kim Heejin, the hottest name of them all. Or not?

Man, if these aren't true, I wonder when IBK will take action (looks like they already did ). If these are true, I wonder who the whistleblower is.

https://sports.donga.com/sport…/all/20211122/110396556/2

- Things started in 2019 when Lee Jungchul left IBK with one year remaining on his contract. It was reported that he resigned but that's not the entire story. IBK placed 4th in the regular league this year, the lowest since their second season. The management of the team, who didn't like Lee JC's charisma, took this opportunity and secretly gathered opinions from the players in the name of consulting and decided to replace the head coach.

- The appointment of the new coach was also done by gathering player opinions and Kim Heejin's opinion, as a founding member and the most influential player in the team, was largely reflected. Kim Woojae was Kim Heejin's coach back in Seoul Jungang Girls' High School.

- Kim WJ treat the players very well at first, but when the players got what they wanted, they started to demand more. On top of that was the conflict over Kim HJ's position. On Kim WJ's first season as head coach, IBK has an OH foreigners so Kim HJ got to play OP. But on the second season, IBK got lucky and drafted Anna Lazareva. As a result, Kim HJ, who had to play MB unwantedly, gradually grew apart from Kim WJ. But Kim WJ still tried to rely on Kim HJ, who had to play MB unwantedly, until the end.

The later parts have mostly been talked about in previous articles:

- Kim WJ tried to increase competitiveness by giving young players many opportunities, but the seniors who wanted to maintain the status quo hated it. In the end, with the exception of Kim Heejin, the seniors took the lead and 'bullied' the director. Some management members sided with the senior players. IBK became a place where young players cannot show their skills because they are wary of their seniors.

- Kim WJ's two year contract ended and he wasn't renew. Time to appoint a new coach. The higher ups wanted a different coach (not mentioned in the article but I read that it was Lee Kyung-seok?). The players wanted Kim Sanee. For some reason, these options didn't work out and Seo Namwon got the job.

- As we know, the terrible losing streak happened and Seo NW's position as the head coach became uncertain. Taking advantage of this, the senior players, the coaching staff and the management took the opportunity to stage a coup and overthrow the head coach.

Editing to add in "with the exception of Kim Hee-jin" specifically is quite a red flag

Zero reason for such a specific name exclusion, media will not bother about protecting a player like so, so it makes it even more suspicious.

High chance IBK is trying to protect their franchise star? But this move also inevitably shifts the blame onto other senior players.

Kim Suji, Pyo Seungju, Cho Songhwa, Shin Yeonkyeong.

Very confusing with them trying to remove Heejin's involvement in all of this, despite them saying Kim Woojae was brought in to IBK at Heejin's suggestion due to him being her past coach in school, and the issue of Heejin playing OPP as she had wanted, then her having to switch back to MB.

Kim Sanee being a key figure in the franchise, a coach, and her ties with the players suggests strong involvement from her too.

Even if the players didn't respect Kim Woojae, they would've respected her as their direct sunbae as well as coach.

NT fans are naturally defending Kim Heejin and Kim Suji in all of this. But they are more senior than Pyo, Songhwa, and SYK.

Either they think IBK players are entirely faultless (at this point I doubt so, especially if all this drama started during Kim Woojae's time - he was such a gentle coach), or do they think those 3 other players were more powerful than Suji & Heejin (and Kim Sanee & head coach)??

I don't think we'll ever find out what really happened though, but I'd like to see Kim Sanee still playing their reserves (esp Kim Hakyung) or it'll raise a flag.

To be honest, regardless of where the responsibility lies, it won't really change how I view the players lol, never thought they were faultless/perfect anyway.
Only downside in all this is I pity the junior players and Rebecca for being caught up in this.

Another official announcement from IBK: source

- The club decided to voluntarily terminate Cho Songhwa, who left the team without permission, in accordance with the Korean Volleyball Federation's voluntary termination regulations (Article 22).

- As the current manager and head coach are absent at the same time, it is inevitable that coach Kim Sanee will be temporarily acting as a substitute. Until a new director is appointed, she will temporarily act as supervisor. Some reports that coach Kim Sanee will be in charge of the rest of the season are not true.

Not sure why they said "Article 22" but I think it's article 15 after checking the KOVO rules.

I believe this means Songhwa cannot sign with any other clubs within 3 years after the voluntary termination. Returning to IBK is possible but it cannot be within one month after the voluntary termination and, as a general rule, cannot be from the start of Round 4 to the end of the FA period.

Yeah saw the article that IBK is officially going to apply for Jo Songhwa's absence from the team as voluntary withdrawal.

This is usually can only be applied by the players themselves, teams cannot force them to.

But I guess they found a way through regulations if a player goes AWOL they can apply it.

Article also states they received consent from other IBK players on the team before deciding on this.

(Also confirms that Songhwa was doing underhand tosses due to lack of confidence in overhand after making mistakes)

I think it isn't right that they're not passing any discipline on Kim Sanee for also going AWOL, but... I do hope it means she wasn't that involved in all this despite her position as senior and coach, not that IBK has no choice but have her be interim coach (probably asked players again).

All feels so sudden though

Quote from suminj

This is usually can only be applied by the players themselves, teams cannot force them to.

But I guess they found a way through regulations if a player goes AWOL they can apply it.

Actually IBK cannot force through the voluntary termination.

This article says an IBK official confirmed that the original intentions were to get Songhwa back to the team and Kim Sanee would be the acting head coach for the remaining of the season. But they changed their mind when public opinion deteriorated.

I think IBK was too quick to put out the announcement because KOVO confirmed in these articles (1, 2) that Songhwa will have the final say and they will contact her on the 23rd to confirm. IBK said they got verbal confirmation from her. Probably they just wanted to get the announcement out before today's match.

Too bad Songhwa made things worse for herself. Neither clubs nor fans will like a player who went AWOL, twice, when their team is in a crisis.

Quote from motodle

Actually IBK cannot force through the voluntary termination.

This article says an IBK official confirmed that the original intentions were to get Songhwa back to the team and Kim Sanee would be the acting head coach for the remaining of the season. But they changed their mind when public opinion deteriorated.

I think IBK was too quick to put out the announcement because KOVO confirmed in these articles (1, 2) that Songhwa will have the final say and they will contact her on the 23rd to confirm. IBK said they got verbal confirmation from her. Probably they just wanted to get the announcement out before today's match.

Too bad Songhwa made things worse for herself. Neither clubs nor fans will like a player who went AWOL, twice, when their team is in a crisis.

Display More

Yup seems like it, which makes more sense, they did say they received verbal confirmation from Songhwa herself that she's willing to voluntarily terminate - but it makes me wonder, how else can clubs punish players if they decide to go AWOL like so? Isn't it a breach of contract from player's end?

Clubs need to stop using "public opinion" as an excuse, and push all the responsibility on "it was what the public wanted".

Do a proper investigation, release results to fans and take a logical action instead.

I'm not sure if head coach should be taking the blame, since this issue had been around since their last coach.

Fans will obviously always side players, so they will always push all blame onto management/coach. I'm not sure if IBK trying to salvage their fans and listening to the players/ex-players is the best choice in this situation, rather than just rebuilding. I doubt things will really change.

Meanwhile, Seo Namwon coach (one of the biggest scapegoat of this whole incident imo) had an interview.

Said he doesn't understand the logic behind IBK calling back Coach Sanee to replace him in a situation where she left together with the player during a difficult time and even submitted her resignation.

Said whenever he called Songhwa or asked her questions she wouldn't answer him, and that club sided with players instead of hearing his side of things.

IBK then clarified Kim Sanee will only be acting coach and not coach for the rest of the season to address issues about bringing her back.

I don't think it makes any sense to keep Coach Sanee though. But I guess its to satisfy the IBK fans with a temporary figurehead they support.

The saga continues thanks to the incompetency of IBK's management.

On the 23rd, KOVO announced that it has decided to reject the official notice of voluntary termination of Cho Songhwa received from IBK Industrial Bank because there was no written request from the player.

Source

Angry IBK fans have started their truck protests. Some fans are not happy with the appointment of Kim Sanee.

Quote from suminj

it makes me wonder, how else can clubs punish players if they decide to go AWOL like so? Isn't it a breach of contract from player's end?

Maybe their contracts would specify some kind of penalties (monetary for for example) for contract violation.

Or worse case scenario, I'm sure we all remember the disciplinary action Heungkuk imposed on the twins last year.

The protests were asking for removal of Cho Songhwa and Kim Sanee since they went AWOL.

But I think truck protests shows a skewed view of "fans" opinion.

You don't know if a single rich fan arranged it, or if a large group of fans gathered their money to do so. Most of the time its just paid by a few individuals because its difficult to organize in a big group.

The comments I'm seeing seem to support removal of Cho Songhwa, but some mixed comments support replacement of current coach with Kim Sanee (since she's ex-NT & IBK).

Quote from motodle

Maybe their contracts would specify some kind of penalties (monetary for for example) for contract violation.

Or worse case scenario, I'm sure we all remember the disciplinary action Heungkuk imposed on the twins last year.

I think it'll make sense if she doesn't get paid, but I'm more curious about how it affects the club's salary cap if so.
Can a player actually go AWOL and choose not to voluntary withdraw...? Perhaps considered breach of contract and club can sue them instead.
Anyway if Cho Songhwa is really stressed and lacking confidence in playing, I would support her to just voluntary withdraw and return in the future when she's feeling better mentally.

Funny you bring that up, because - for the twins case there was no disciplinary action taken, or rather it couldn't be taken.

Kim Sanee's side of the story:

Quote from Papago Translation

"I'm sorry to disappoint volleyball fans in any way," said acting head coach Kim Sani, who bowed his head, "There have been many misleading articles. After the match against KGC Ginseng Corporation in the second round, coach Seo Nam-won and Cho Song-hwa had friction. Cho Song-hwa left the team, and coach Seo Nam-won was very angry afterwards, so he said insulting words and abusive words to me in front of all the players and coaches."

Acting head coach Kim Sani, who said, "It wasn't the first time," said, "I've often talked about myself in front of many people." Even before expressing his gratitude, he did not sleep well and had a little panic disorder. "I still have a little difficulty," he said, explaining his situation.

Acting head coach Kim Sani, who stressed, "It doesn't mean that everything is coach Seo Nam-won's fault," said, "It's everyone's fault. I hope you understand the situation in which I had accumulated achievements and had no choice but to act like that. I didn't go out of anger," he said.

Acting head coach Kim Sani ended the interview with tears, saying, "I didn't feel good because the players' faces weren't bright today."

Display More

Glad we got to hear her speak her side of things, though putting a camera on her during this tough time feels... not so right.

Hey, if its really the coach's fault, I'm open to Songhwa and Sanee staying on IBK. Voluntary withdrawal is't finalized yet. But Kim Sanee did say the fault was spread across everyone, coach said Songhwa wasn't responsive to him and she also did awol.

Well, despite all the drama, Altos just won straight set vs Pink Spider..

Is Kim Sa-Nee really good, or PS is really getting worse?

Anyway, a very good start for Altos...

PS seems still couldn't find good formation ....

Congrats IBK on the win, despite everything, or perhaps it was because of everything that they were more driven to prove themselves as players on the court.

I want to credit Kim Hakyung setter for IBK change in gameplay, they should continue with her.

Based on what was shared thus far, I'm just going take the stance that the coach was trying to coach, and players were trying to train/play.

Maybe after past few seasons with Kim Woojae coach who was really mild, to have an old-school style coach come in made it too drastic.

Aside from the incident when coach reportedly swore at Kim Sanee in front of all the players when Cho Songhwa went awol, the players didn't seem to say anything more. Shall just take it as a conflict of opinions and interest, though he crossed the line for coach Sanee - if all are true.

Now just left with Songhwa's case

edit: apparently Songhwa expressed her intention to continue playing, even though IBK said she verbally agreed to voluntary withdraw previously.

Still, going awol as a captain... maybe internal disciplinary measures such as not playing for Round 3 and being fined by KOVO? idk

Quote from ian3373

Well, despite all the drama, Altos just won straight set vs Pink Spider..

Is Kim Sa-Nee really good, or PS is really getting worse?

Anyway, a very good start for Altos...

PS seems still couldn't find good formation ....

Personally I'd like to wait and see more of Kim Sanee's IBK because Heungkuk has been getting worse as the season went on. They're dependent on Khatbell and I feel like she's affected by all of the losses they're getting. Playing against a weaker team can create the illusion that you're better than you really are.

Either way, congrats IBK. You gotta celebrate when you can.

After the match, IBK's Olympic trio denied all of the allegations about the unfaithful attitude in training and playing games reported in some articles. They also confirmed Kim Sanee's story about Seo Namwon's abusive language. Source

On the other hand, Seo Namwon refuted the abusive language allegation. He admitted that he scolded Kim Sanee and it might have made her feel bad, but he didn't use abusive language. Source

It's not resolved yet but at least I'm glad we're hearing from different sides. Now I wonder if Songhwa will speak up, about the times she went AWOL and about the voluntary termination. Did IBK ever get confirmation from her that she would give them the written consent?

My understanding right now is that the "verbal confirmation" IBK got from Songhwa were from the times she went AWOL and told them she couldn't/didn't want to play (for IBK) anymore. But many things have changed since then, most noticeably the head coach she didn't like left the team. If Seo Namwon was the reason for Songhwa AWOL, then her wanting to come back after him leaving is not really a change of heart right?

There is no criminal charge because they cant open his Iphone, he said he “forget” his password lol, what kind of bull is that.

Quote from theloneracer

I won't deny that this might be true but you have to remember that the three players are closer to Kim Sa-Nee (KSN) than they are to SEO Nam-Won (SNW). Plus it was reported that the senior players wanted KSN as the next head coach after KIM Woo-Jae departed at the end of last season. So going along with KSN side of the story that SNW was abusive would help shield them from accusations of undermining SNW.

Well, I was trying to give them a fair chance at that point of the news release, honestly given a choice I would love to be able to believe in the players instead of the management

But if you were to ask me, I think NT fans (on other platforms) have been blindly defending and supporting them.

I really can't see the fault in the coach - he was someone who had coached KGC for so many years without such issues previously, and we're only into Round 2 of his first season with IBK. He is nowhere near to the extent that Lee Jungcheol (ex-IBK coach) was like as a coach, and so far he's been able to give the most accurate recount of what had happened too. He seems like the biggest scapegoat in all this - not forgetting he lost his job within a matter of days though it was Songhwa and Sanee who went AWOL instead.

But believing that would also mean that the senior players (all of them) on IBK really pressured the management into this... which is quite, disappointing.

Shouldn't they have spoken to management before this season started? Or at least waited till end of this season to petition for KSN as coach.

Agree with the Korean fan petitions that Songhwa and Sanee really shouldn't be protected in all this. They went AWOL, that's no joke.

There are 2 other coaches on IBK who can takeover instead of Kim Sanee too, it doesnt have to be her

If Songhwa insists on returning, IBK has the option of canceling the contract.
"When the contract is terminated, the remaining annual salary is paid and the player can transfer to another club."

Was Songhwa's contract 3 years? Can't believe she got 2.7 though, Korea's salary is really so high haha