CEV Champions League 2023

    1. I'm comparing both players based on their performance at the most important game of season. I won't compare Boskovic's performance against PTT of course🤦 this was not the only game she was bad. She played badly during playoff finals too😉

    2. I watched quite a lot of games of eczacıbasi if not all. Boskovic is not using jump serve for almost a year because she is just inconsistent server, it is not because she is injured. And there's no specific injury preventing someone to use jump serve but allowing her to attack. If a player can attack from backrow, physically she is capable of doing jump serve too. So I don't think injury could be an excuse here. All top players have minor injuries here and there anyways. And Boskovic is Princess of club, noone could force her play with a serious injury. Fabris played quite a few games to give her rest. What else do you want? Should Eczacıbaşı hire Haak as back up for next time?😂

    Quote from serdar

    What kind of investing are you talking about. Investing is what they did with Boskovic, they hired her when she was very young, trained her and let her play as starter etc. Voronkova came to Eczacı as an already established player at an older age. She might not receive as good as Gabi or attack as well as Arina but she is one of the rare OHs who can do both. Who else Eczacıbaşı can replace her otherwise? Gray?🤦

    lol actually, she can't do both, that's the problem. at least do one but at good level. Being a mediocre attacker and receiver means nothing at this level.


    User was saying they should give her one more year and try her, but I think she does not have much room to improve they should not waste one more year with her. that's what ı am talking about. read it carefully.

    Quote from Rhaemon

    Tica's my bias. she hung the volleyball sun and moon so :dance4:all i would say is poor her. such a dysfunctional team. all i can afford to give her is .01% of the blame^^:rolleyes: the bus driver didn't drive well so she bumped her head on their way to the gym.. the physio did not massage her shoulders today. someone gave her the wrong bottle of water... pluto did not rotate around the sun...etc.... see.. it is not Tca's fault. :rolleyes::flower:

    Well I respect this approach more, thanks for honesty 👏

    Quote from MTS

    lol actually, she can't do both, that's the problem. at least do one but at good level. Being a mediocre attacker and receiver means nothing at this level.


    User was saying they should give her one more year and try her, but I think she does not have much room to improve they should not waste one more year with her. that's what ı am talking about. read it carefully.

    she's the best passer in the league. and yes stats mean what they should mean.

    Quote from serdar

    1. I'm comparing both players based on their performance at the most important game of season. I won't compare Boskovic's performance against PTT of course🤦 this was not the only game she was bad. She played badly during playoff finals too😉

    2. I watched quite a lot of games of eczacıbasi if not all. Boskovic is not using jump serve for almost a year because she is just inconsistent server, it is not because she is injured. And there's no specific injury preventing someone to use jump serve but allowing her to attack. If a player can attack from backrow, physically she is capable of doing jump serve too. So I don't think injury could be an excuse here. All top players have minor injuries here and there anyways. And Boskovic is Princess of club, noone could force her play with a serious injury. Fabris played quite a few games to give her rest. What else do you want? Should Eczacıbaşı hire Haak as back up for next time?😂

    You watched what? Year ago? She was best server at WCCH and this was on 18.12.2022


    Injury was vs Chemik on 11. january, so is 4 months with no jump serve not a year. Yes you watched sultan league this season, but on data score :lol:

    Quote from Rhaemon

    she's the best passer in the league. and yes stats mean what they should mean.

    how many times ı should repeat for you? I think she is not and if you watch the games carefully you can see she is a weak passer.


    go and watch one more time her games at world championship, sultanlar ligi final and CL final. She is the player who makes the most receving errors. Thats why all teams target her at reception.

    Quote from serdar

    What better team around her? They get 'best' setter in the world. Solid MBs and outsides. At the end when it really mattered she was the one who choked not her teammates. Give me a break! She is a great player but it doesn't mean we should blame everything except her when team fails. If she gets the most praise when her team succeeds, it makes sense that she could be criticizes once her team flops once again.😉

    Well this is their limit, SOLID mbs and outsides are not enough to beat Fener, Vakif or Imoco in finals. Ogbogu and Eda and Zehra are not solid MBs, Gabi, Arina and AC are not solid outsides.


    Also coach Fehrat is also solid. When you do math, "just" final is probably reality for them with this roster.

    Quote from MTS

    how many times ı should repeat for you? I think she is not and if you watch the games carefully you can see she is a weak passer.


    go and watch one more time her games at world championship, sultanlar ligi final and CL final. She is the player who makes the most receving errors. Thats why all teams target her at reception.

    She is not just aced so many time, number of hers overpasses are countless. People just watch statistic, and she can return perfect pass, but this is like every third ball.


    Hande can break under pressure, but she is more reliable overall.

    Quote from serdar

    1. I'm comparing both players based on their performance at the most important game of season. I won't compare Boskovic's performance against PTT of course🤦 this was not the only game she was bad. She played badly during playoff finals too😉

    2. I watched quite a lot of games of eczacıbasi if not all. Boskovic is not using jump serve for almost a year because she is just inconsistent server, it is not because she is injured. And there's no specific injury preventing someone to use jump serve but allowing her to attack. If a player can attack from backrow, physically she is capable of doing jump serve too. So I don't think injury could be an excuse here. All top players have minor injuries here and there anyways. And Boskovic is Princess of club, noone could force her play with a serious injury. Fabris played quite a few games to give her rest. What else do you want? Should Eczacıbaşı hire Haak as back up for next time?😂

    It was clearly visible yesterday that Boskovic has physical issues, either due to injury or exhaustion. She was far less dynamic and explosive than she can be, which resulted in an overall rather poor performance for her standards.

    Second, of course injury/tiredness is a reason to abandon jump serve! In fact it's rather common, it's the element where players can save energy in the easiest way, sometimes it's even a reason to use a serving substitute.

    Quote from volleySrb

    She is not just aced so many time, number of hers overpasses are countless. People just watch statistic, and she can return perfect pass, but this is like every third ball.


    Hande can break under pressure, but she is more reliable overall.

    I totally agree


    Also, the best part of her game is serving, but she doesn't find as many aces as she did in the first half of the season since opponents solved how to receive her serves.

    Quote from MTS

    lol actually, she can't do both, that's the problem. at least do one but at good level. Being a mediocre attacker and receiver means nothing at this level.


    User was saying they should give her one more year and try her, but I think she does not have much room to improve they should not waste one more year with her. that's what ı am talking about. read it carefully.

    signing with a player for second year is not investing her. write it carefully.


    if you call 50% attacking rate at a CL final as mediocre attacking, I don't know what you would call Boskovic's attack from yesterday 😂


    Voronkova was one of the best receiver outside hitter whole season and she was second most scorer at most of the critical matches. It's not like there are so many great outside options better than her. There are only Gabi, Arina, Zhu, maybe Ana Cristina, and ilchenko (I haven't watched her this season though)

    Quote from serdar

    "Voronkova was one of the best receiver outside hitter whole season "

    I don't want to argue any more with someone who still says this. :wavy:



    and what's the point of brining boskovic to this discussion? as far as ı remember ı didnt say she was good yesterday.



    edit: I thought she improved her receiving when ı was watching 2021 summer and she would show this performance in eczacıbaşı but nope she did not. ı think she is a mediocre receiver, not that bad passer overall but she is having an bad season.

    Quote from MTS

    I totally agree


    Also, the best part of her game is serving, but she doesn't find as many aces as she did in the first half of the season since opponents solved how to receive her serves.

    I swear, sometime when she return ball, setter need to be 195cm tall and to jump as Mina Popovic.


    About jump serve, serve need to be very strong to be effective, or receiver just got used after some repetitions.

    Quote from MTS

    how many times ı should repeat for you? I think she is not and if you watch the games carefully you can see she is a weak passer.


    go and watch one more time her games at world championship, sultanlar ligi final and CL final. She is the player who makes the most receving errors. Thats why all teams target her at reception.

    that's like saying that Arina is a good passer just because she was able to pass that difficult serve more times than usual when her overall stats says 17% in reception. stats are used as a metric for a reason. you're just looking at the times Voronkova failed. specially against a server like Arina who has aced almost everyone. her overall reception stat before the finals was more than 50% (if i'm not mistaken). that means more than half of the serves that went to her she was able to pass. so no we can't just say stats don't matter because "i saw her get aced by the strongest servers in the league."

    Quote from Matthias

    It was clearly visible yesterday that Boskovic has physical issues, either due to injury or exhaustion. She was far less dynamic and explosive than she can be, which resulted in an overall rather poor performance for her standards.

    Second, of course injury/tiredness is a reason to abandon jump serve! In fact it's rather common, it's the element where players can save energy in the easiest way, sometimes it's even a reason to use a serving substitute.

    Avoiding Tiredness or energy saving reasons, yes. But there is no back injury preventing you do jump serve but allowing you to attack from backrow.


    Also exhaustion should be less than others since she and Maja were the ones who got the most rest throughout season.

    Quote from Rhaemon

    that's like saying that Arina is a good passer just because she was able to pass that difficult serve more times than usual when her overall stats says 17% in reception. stats are used as a metric for a reason. you're just looking at the times Voronkova failed. specially against a server like Arina who has aced almost everyone. her overall reception stat before the finals was more than 50% (if i'm not mistaken). that means more than half of the serves that went to her she was able to pass. so no we can't just say stats don't matter because "i saw her get aced by the strongest servers in the league."

    Definitely agree! Stats doesnt tell everything but it tells a lot of things. She finished season with 53% ( Hande 53%, Simge 54% as a reference)

    Quote from serdar

    Also exhaustion should be less than others since she and Maja were the ones who got the most rest throughout season.

    Well this is not fully true, yes he used Fabris a lot at the beginning of season but he forget this strategy after wcch. So march, april and may he used them the most. Fehrat was fool enough to chase 26/26 for no reason.


    But she is not just tired for sure, so this is not main reason for bad games.

    Quote from crovolley

    https://www-old.cev.eu/Competi…hStatistics.aspx?ID=64313


    According to official stats by CEV , 10.447 fans were at women’s finals.

    The hall was much more crowded for the men's final. It is an unrealistic number. Probably the tickets were for both the finals and the polish fans didn't go to watch the women's final. It's impossible they had same exact number of fans for both the finals.

    Quote from VBdiamond

    The hall was much more crowded for the men's final. It is an unrealistic number. Probably the tickets were for both the finals and the polish fans didn't go to watch the women's final. It's impossible they had same exact number of fans for both the finals.

    The single ticket was for both matches so if someone was interested in only one of the two they could just skip the other. For the men there was much more public indeed.

    Quote from Arii

    The single ticket was for both matches so if someone was interested in only one of the two they could just skip the other. For the men there was much more public indeed.

    Because of this reason, I really really don't like super final concept. Most audiences have preferences on one gender over another. And in this system, female final is played at earlier time since male volleyball always gets the priority 🤦


    I think they should definitely bring final 4 vibes again. Traveling to another country for just one game is not very practical. I would have definitely traveled to Italy If it was final 4 system🤷


    What do others think about final 4 system vs super finals?