Turkey 2023

  • Pasör: Cansu Özbay, Elif Şahin

    Pasör Çaprazı: Melissa Vargas

    Smaçör: Hande Baladın, Saliha Şahin, İlkin Aydın, Derya Cebecioğlu, Tuğba İvegin, Ebrar Karakurt

    Orta Oyuncu: Eda Erdem, Zehra Güneş, Aslı Kalaç, Kübra Akman

    Libero: Gizem Örge, Simge Aköz, Ayça Aykaç

  • I am new in this environment and it is quite visible from my profile as "Student" however, I consider myself objective and always like to talk with numbers. Another advantage of being a new member is to review all posts in the thread backwards and manage to have an overall opinion (let's say holistic picture) for each and every discussion/prediction and reaction of users/members to those points.

    I would like to share some of them with you with my comments (right or wrong);

    1- I found the discussions on Boskovic, Haak, Vargas, Stysiak and Egonu, absolutely useless and nonsense, since all are outstanding, examplary and game changer players with different characteristics, so this sounds with a childish insistency such as "My father beats your father". All are great and no ranking should be made. This sounds like, comparing apple vs pear. Respect to all mentioned players.

    2- One of the users stated that, "they don't see any good prospect on OH position in Turkey for a while (including Derya) and people get euphoric when they see a player in the younger categories, but very often it turns out that there is not a lot of material there. Adding that, it is the same case in their country". This is not correct, at least for Turkish part. It's been a while that Turkish Women Volleyball means beyond all imaginations due to social and political environment in Türkiye. Not only at club level but millions are inspired by these players, considering each of them as idols and there is a huge potential in the new generation. I am sure that, this will be quite visible very soon.

    3- One of the users (and some others) tried to make comments about İlkin, playing for Galatasaray and she should be in high level team in a sense, judging her decision that she should be playing for Vakıfbank or so... This is also a wrong opinion, due to lack of knowledge, and not knowing the exact meaning of playing in mentioned club. Vakıfbank/Eczacıbaşı are very successful Volleyball clubs but when we talk about Galatasaray, Fenerbahçe or Beşiktaş, it is a privilege for every local athlete to be the player of such sports club for a couple of seasons (not only a volleyball club).

    4- There were several predictions about the rosters and they were really brainstorming but at the end, many users were mistaken in not giving a chance to Derya at the beginning but at the end, started yelling Deryaaaaa, Deryaaaaa! Now they are mistaken again with the comments/prediction on possible new roster, some considering İlkin as the 2nd or 3rd option. Also, commenting about the 1st phase Türkiye's roster as Gio type roster, which is not correct. There is no Gio type or no Santa type roster. Best performers takes the Jersey and that is all.

    5- In my opinion, most accurate comment about Gio/Santa comparison came from Meatballs. Gio always wanted to be on the safe side and that is why he was never on the side to take any risk, chased success/win and to be on top and always preferred to play with all stars, letting all talented players, warming the bench. The last example is Hena Kurtagic. I like her performance and would like to see her in my team or at least at Turkish Sultanlar League however she signed with Neptunes De Nantes. During VNL, Gio let her in the court against USA and she blocked Annie Drews and ooops that's all. Subbed and never saw her again in any match, except cheering at the bench. That was also so strange. I guess, friends from the related country can make more objective comments (without any bias) and users who knows the background of the mentioned player more than us (or more than me).

    6- In addition to this, another statement was failed again, while saying that;

    "While Saliha and Ilkin are just no for me, Hande have more potential then Busa, but she didn't deliver so far. I can see that as missed opportunity to combine the benefits of both parties and try working with Hande in Vakif, but it is difficult to judge whether it would be successful, chances certainly exist.

    Since it is not enough that the potential is taken away from serbian players, it is popular to manipulate with Busa's current performances, showing it only as Santarelli's effect and not spectacular at all, now he will be the one who will work with those potentials that I underestimate, so just don't come here after the NT season and say how Saliha and Ilkin ain't it".

    No any special feeling or no any non-objective comment for any name, as it is the same for any player in Serbia Team or Turkish Team player(s) or any other Nation's Team Player(s) -Brasilian, Italian, Polish etc. If she has a good performance, then it is good, if she has a bad performance, then it is bad. So far, Saliha's performance is pathetic, as it is for Busa and Julia Bergman. Simple as that. If I was in the shoes of any coach, I would not think to give any other chance, while some others are in the queue. However, for all the mentioned names, I consider this as one final chance. If they perform good in the next tournament, then ok. They will be monitored again until the other tournament but if not, then I would close the NT doors for those for good (or at least for one year). Hande is still one of the best defensive OHs and still have a chance to find a space in the team (even though I don't like her attitude and strategy, to be in the front line with tabloid agenda) and İlkin was one of the best almost at all criterias but she is really a crazy girl. I will explain the reason in my next posts. So overall, it was a false judgement (at least not 100% correct).

    7- Reviewing statistics and reading statistics are two different things. Meaning that, looking at the numbers of a bench player in a top team and trying to compare it with a player from a mediocre or weak team, can be misleading. That kind of comparison usually needs a drill down analysis. Usually, the best analysis can be done in a complete tournament, while all teams are playing with each other and rotations are at the lowest level (especially for the teams core players with sufficient number of matches and points (or other indicators) for the final result. Also, reviewing the same team's players performance in the same match would give a clear picture of each player. I will share this kind of analysis in my next posts for Türkiye.

    7- One of the best actions I liked so far was, the closure of the thread temporarily, which was due to provocative discussions from all ends. I was not here when it happened but when I reviewed all, yes it was the right decision. I hope we all learned to respect each other and we talk only about volleyball without hurting each other, on the way forward.

  • Here we go with some analysis;

    Since most of discussions were (and still) about the OHs, most of the analysis are based on the performance of the OHs.

    1- İlkin played fully (all sets) at starting line-up in 7 matches with no loss. She subbed Hande 3 times (USA, Poland and Japan). The changes against Poland did not work well as desired, however in matches with USA and Japan, the changes worked well as expected and from 0-2, Türkiye managed to reach to Tie Break but at the end, we lost the matches. Maybe due to late changes? Who knows... In the match with Canada, İlkin had to be subbed due to her injury. Similarly in semi final match, İlkin had to be subbed by Derya, due to same reason and İlkin did not take place fully in final match.

    2- İlkin stepped in the court in 9 matches in starting Line-up. At the beginning of the tournament, she had an injury in her right leg but after consultation, she has decided to continue. It worked ok in the 1st week. In the 2nd week, it seemed like, she did not want to push herself and not included in the starting line-up at Poland match but had to sub another player due to low efficiency. Following that, she was on the court again with starting line-up in the match vs. Canada, but she had to leave the court, due to her injury on her right leg (which was the same at the very beginning) and had ice treatment at the bench. She gave a break in Dominic match and then week 2 was over. In week 3, she was not included in the starting roster against Japan but due to the bad performance of the existing players, she had to step in with Derya but their effort was not enough to win. She was back on the court with starting line -up In Thailand match, and had no issue, however in the following match with Brasil, she was wearing a bandage on her finger. She played well against Brasil but took a break in the following match against Croatia, which was relatively weak team. Week 3 was over after Croatia match. In the Quarter Final match, she was again on the court in starting line-up and this time, her injury seemed to be more serious than the previous one, a big bandage on her left thumb, covering her wrist at the same time. In the match with Italy, nothing seemed to be problematic but this is my prediction that, her injury was worsen. In USA match, I have noticed that, while she was attempting for receiving, she was hesitant and her armes opened strangely, resulted with reception error (Before the bandage on her hand, she made 1 reception error in 9 matches and later on one error in each match against Brasil, İtaly and USA). Right after this error, she was subbed by Derya which was 100% correct decision. Derya covered her well in both semi final and final matches, which brought the trophy (along with the great efficiency of the MBs and Vargas).

    3- Derya is well deserved to play in our NT. She played full time in 4 matches with four wins and one loss in starting line-up (she was subbed). Especially her efforts with İlkin was not enough to change the result vs Japan.

    4- Ebrar played 14 full matches with 5 wins and 2 loss as OH and 6 wins 1 loss as OPP. Her overall performance was also good.

    5- Hande played 4 full matches at starting line-up with 4 wins, 3 loss (subbed) and 1 win (subbed). Overall performance was not promising, however she was very good in the defensive area with receptions and digs.

    6- Saliha was seen at the starting line-up in 2 matches only, in which one of them was win and the other was loss. She was the weakest ring of the chain.

    Details are given below in Table 1;

    Table 1
    Weeks Team In Starting Line-Up (OH/OPP) W/L Bandage
    (İlkin)
    İlkin
    Played
    Derya
    Played
    Ebrar
    Played
    Hande
    Played
    Saliha
    Played
    Result
    Week 1 Kor İlkin, Hande Win Bandage 3 Sets 2 Sets 2 Sets (OPP)2 Sets 1 Set 3-0
    Week 1 Srb İlkin, Hande Win Bandage 4 Sets 1 Set 4 Sets (OPP)4 Sets 0 Set 3-1
    Week 1 İtaly İlkin, Derya Win Bandage 3 Sets 3 Sets 3 Sets (OPP)0 Set 0 Set 3-0
    Week 1 USA Hande, Derya, Ebrar Loss Bandage 5 Set1 Set5 Sets (OH) 4 Sets 0 Set 2-3
                         
    Week 2 Ned İlkin,Hande Win no 3 Sets 0 Set 3 Sets (OPP)3 Sets 0 Set 3-0
    Week 2 Pol Hande, Ebrar Loss Bandage 2 Sets 0 Set 3 Sets (OH) 2 Sets 2 Sets 0-3
    Week 2 Can İlkin, Ebrar Win Bandage 2Sets 0 Set 3 Sets (OH) 2 Sets 2 Sets 3-0
    Week 2 Dom Hande Ebrar Win N/A 0 Sets 0 Set 4 Sets (OH) 4 Sets 2 Sets 3-1
                         
    Week3 Jap Hande, Saliha Loss no 4 Sets 5 Sets 5 Sets (OPP)4 Sets 3 Sets 2-3
    Week3 Tha İlkin, Derya Win no 3 Sets 3 Sets 3 Sets (OPP)1 Set 0 Set 3-0
    Week3 Brazil İlkin, Derya Win Bandage 3 Sets 3 Sets 3 Sets (OPP)1 Set 1 Set 3-0
    Week3 Cro Hande, Saliha Win N/A 0 Sets 1 Set 3 Sets (OPP)3 Sets 3 Sets 3-0
                         
    Quarter İtaly İlkin, Ebrar Win Bandage 3 Sets 1 Set 3 Sets (OH) 0 Set 0 Set 3-0
    Semi USA İlkin, Ebrar Win Bandage 2Sets 4 Sets 4 Sets (OH) 0 Set 0 Set 3-1
    Final China Derya, Ebrar Win Bandage 1 Set 4 Sets 4 Sets (OH) 0 Set 0 Set 3-1
    Start & FullStarter Win Starter Loss
    Ebrar 11 (5+6) 3 (2+1)
    İlkin 7 0
    Derya 4 1
    Hande 4 3
    Saliha 1 1


    It was good for İlkin that, she completed the tournament without a very serious injury, since she had 4 injuries in the past, 2 was very serious and especially the last one in 2018 which lasted about 2 years. She was suffered with torn anterior cruciate ligament but she was so strong that, she managed to overcome from all these problems. Considering the pandemy break, she almost lost 3 years and she was back in 2021-2022 season and seemed to be doing good in 2022-2023. In one of the interview, she has admitted that, she was warned by the NT physicians for taking it easy and not to push herself or do something risky, especially in defensive area such as diving for digs but she did not listen. She kept going on with her own way.

    That is why, I call her CRAZY GIRL.

    Analysis to be continued.

  • Here you can find TABLE 2, with all OHs + Ebrar played as OH/OPP. Each variable (%) in each task (e.g. Serve, Blocks etc..) has been ranked. Highest success ranked from highest (5) to lowest (1) and highest errors ranked from highest (1) to lowest (5). At the end, all ranks summed for each players, which indicates the overall success.

    When we assess the tasks separately, Ebrar looks most successful in Serves. Hande seems best in Blocks, reception and Dig. İlkin has the best statistics in Attacks (spike).

    In Win/Loss section (Average points by match) Ebrar is 1st followed by İlkin. İlkin has the highest summed ranks followed by Ebrar. When you check all data in the table, I am sure that you will find them interesting and some very surprising.

    In addition, I performed a simulation, based on Ebrar's spike sum (399), wondering how the others would perform, if they were supposed to reach to that spike number (399). While doing this, I kept the other tasks as they are.

    Simulation results are also very interesting. İlkin and Derya scored 7.3 points net (net points) per match, while Hande scored 6.6 points and Saliha scored 2 points.

    Since Ebrar played in 2 positions in the whole tournament, another drill down anaysis might be required.

    Meliha was excluded from this ranking study, since she doesn't have sufficient data for ranking.


    Table 2 (Covers Whole Tournament- Ebrar OH/OPP)
      Serve Blocks
    Players (OH) Eff% Rank Err % Rank Ace Ace % Rank Err Sum Pts Err. Pts % Rank Err % Rank Touch Sum
    Derya Cebecioğlu 0 4 3.26 5 1 1.09 2 3 92 5 15 14.3 2 42.9 1 5 35
    İlkin Aydın -1 3 11.11 3 7 4.86 4 16 144 9 20 16.1 3 35.7 3 12 56
    Ebrar Karakurt 2 5 9.50 4 14 7.82 5 17 179 18 28 25.7 5 40.0 2 9 70
    Hande Baladin -7 2 14.63 1 2 2.44 3 12 82 10 9 25.0 4 22.5 5 11 40
    Saliha Şahin -11 1 13.33 2 0 0.00 1 6 45 1 3 9.1 1 27.3 4 4 11
    Meliha Diken 0   0   0 0.00   0 0 0 0 0.0   0.0   0 0
      Reception Spike
    Players (OH) Err. Err% Rank Pos % Rank Perf % Rank Sum Err. Err% Rank Kill % Rank Eff % Rank Pts Sum
    Derya Cebecioğlu 8 6.78 2 44 1 15 1 118 20 16.81 3 42 4 25 3 50 119
    İlkin Aydın 4 2.19 5 48 4 26 4 183 29 15.68 4 45 5 30 5 84 185
    Ebrar Karakurt 8 5.63 3 45 2 16 2 142 59 14.79 5 40 3 26 4 161 399
    Hande Baladin 4 2.38 4 57 5 29 5 168 28 17.39 2 38 2 20 2 61 161
    Saliha Şahin 4 9.30 1 47 3 23 3 43 10 25.00 1 33 1 8 1 13 40
    Meliha Diken 0 0   0   0   0 0 0   100   100   1 1


      Digs # Match
    Players (OH) % Rank Suc. Sum TTL
    Derya Cebecioğlu 72.7 4 48 66 11
    İlkin Aydın 68.0 3 70 103 13
    Ebrar Karakurt 63.9 2 53 83 15
    Hande Baladin 74.5 5 41 55 11
    Saliha Şahin 59.3 1 16 27 9
    Meliha Diken 0   0 0 1
      T. Win T.Loss T. W-L Av. Pts Rank
    Players (OH) Pts Pts Pts Pts By Pts
    Derya Cebecioğlu 56 46 10 0.91 2
    İlkin Aydın 100 69 31 2.38 4
    Ebrar Karakurt 193 112 81 5.40 5
    Hande Baladin 73 53 20 1.82 3
    Saliha Şahin 14 23 -9 -1.00 1
    Meliha Diken 1 0 1 1.00  
    Players By T. Rank Total
    Final Grade Rank
    İlkin Aydın 50
    Ebrar Karakurt 47
    Hande Baladin 43
    Derya Cebecioğlu 34
    Saliha Şahin 21
  • Maybe it's OT, but I read some creepy news regarding Baladın: seems like she received death threats from what it's look like a stalker. What the hell is wrong with people...

    It's true and horrible 😞 maybe all this is why her performance hasn't been developed. (It's been years of her being stalked btw)


    Apparently he said: "I will throw acid on your face, I will not die before taking revenge of you."


    <X:thumbdown:

  • It's true and horrible 😞 maybe all this is why her performance hasn't been developed. (It's been years of her being stalked btw)


    Apparently he said: "I will throw acid on your face, I will not die before taking revenge of you."


    <X:thumbdown:

    Hande apparently is suing him, she said she feels her life is threatened, he messages her constantly and finds her. She is very scared. :(

  • I prepared Table 3 with the same method, which I used for Table 2. Main difference is; I excluded Ebrar's OPP records and kept only her statistics she has achived while playing as OH.

    Overall, there is not much changes in ranks and remains almost the same. Drastic change seems in simulation. While Ebrar scored 4.14 net points per match (previously while clubbing figures of OPP/OH it was 5.40), others scored less.

    Simulated figures are as follows.

    1- Derya and İlkin very close and around 2.6 net points (W-L) per match.

    2- Hande around 2.4 net points (W-L) per match.

    3- Saliha around 0.3 net points (W-L) per match.

    This table reflects more objective and realistic figures, since all players data is based on OH performance. In other words, it is apple to apple comparison.

    Comparing players net scoring with others;

    i- Even though Ebrar's attack statistics are not good as İlkin's statistics, Ebrar is much more succesful, especially in Serves and Blocks, having less negative impact in her W-L statistics (and even in 7 matches). In spite of having good statistics in reception, İlkin needs to improve her serve and block efficiency, however Ebrar needs to improve her attack efficiency for better contribution. Same for Digs and reception.

    ii- Derya's serves are quite weak and she is the worst in blocks. She also needs to improve her receptions though her attacks seems fine but still needs to be improved. Both İlkin and Derya are good in digs.

    iii- Hande is the best in Digs, Receptions and Blocks. Not efficient in serves but most important is her weak attack performance, which neutralize all her statistics/efficiency. If she manage to improve her attack statistics, she will be one of the best.

    iv- Nothing much to comment about Saliha. All I can say is, if she keeps dancing at the bench, she will be out forever soon.


    Table 3 (Covers Whole Tournament-All In OH Position)
      Serve Blocks
    Players (OH) Eff% Rank Err % Rank Ace Ace % Rank Err Sum Pts Err. Pts % Rank Err % Rank Touch Sum
    Derya Cebecioğlu 0 4 3.26 5 1 1.09 2 3 92 5 15 14.3 2 42.9 1 5 35
    İlkin Aydın -1 3 11.11 3 7 4.86 4 16 144 9 20 16.1 3 35.7 3 12 56
    Ebrar Karakurt 2 5 10.81 4 8 7.21 5 12 111 11 16 28.2 5 41.0 2 9 39
    Hande Baladin -7 2 14.63 1 2 2.44 3 12 82 10 9 25.0 4 22.5 5 11 40
    Saliha Şahin -11 1 13.33 2 0 0.00 1 6 45 1 3 9.1 1 27.3 4 4 11
    Meliha Diken 0   0   0 0.00   0 0 0 0 0.0   0.0   0 0
      Reception Spike
    Players (OH) Err. Err% Rank Pos % Rank Perf % Rank Sum Err. Err% Rank Kill % Rank Eff % Rank Pts Sum
    Derya Cebecioğlu 8 6.78 2 44 1 15 1 118 20 16.81 3 42 4 25 4 50 119
    İlkin Aydın 4 2.19 5 48 4 26 4 183 29 15.68 4 45 5 30 5 84 185
    Ebrar Karakurt 8 5.71 3 45 2 16 2 140 27 14.06 5 38 3 24 3 73 192
    Hande Baladin 4 2.38 4 57 5 29 5 168 28 17.39 2 38 2 20 2 61 161
    Saliha Şahin 4 9.30 1 47 3 23 3 43 10 25.00 1 33 1 8 1 13 40
    Meliha Diken 0 0   0   0   0 0 0   100   100   1 1


      Digs # Match
    Players (OH) % Rank Suc. Sum TTL
    Derya Cebecioğlu 72.7 4 48 66 11
    İlkin Aydın 68.0 3 70 103 13
    Ebrar Karakurt 63.6 2 35 55 7
    Hande Baladin 74.5 5 41 55 11
    Saliha Şahin 59.3 1 16 27 9
    Meliha Diken 0   0 0 1


      T. Win T.Loss T. W-L Av. Pts Rank
    Players (OH) Pts Pts Pts Pts By Avg. Pts
    Derya Cebecioğlu 56 46 10 0.91 2
    İlkin Aydın 100 69 31 2.38 4
    Ebrar Karakurt 92 63 29 4.14 5
    Hande Baladin 73 53 20 1.82 3
    Saliha Şahin 14 23 -9 -1.00 1
    Meliha Diken 1 0 1 1.00  
    Players By Rank Total
    Final Grade Rank
    İlkin Aydın 50
    Ebrar Karakurt 46
    Hande Baladin 43
    Derya Cebecioğlu 35
    Saliha Şahin 21
  • Here is another interesting table but this time I did not prepare it but it was prepared by Hernandez (Former Assistant Coach of Vakıfbank). It covers the setters preferences and all players performance while playing with 2 setters, Cansu and Elif.

    The table on the left, indicates the preferences. At the beginning, I found it a bit confusing but when I checked all details, it was crystal clear. Basically, it takes the highest number of the attack, divides to same, multiplies with 100, in order to find the percentage (100%) of the relevant player, then continue with the number of attacks for the rest of players. e.g for Cansu, Vargas is the 1st preference with 117 attacks and all numbers are devided by that number (multiplied by 100).

    Similarly with Elif, 118 is the highest number is 118 and it is for Ebrar and works same as explained above (numbers devided by 118 and multiplied by 100). In this table on the left, instead of using the definition 'Performance', it would be better to use 'Setting Preference'.

    For Cansu, 1st preference is Vargas, then Ebrar, followed by İlkin.

    For Elif, 1st preference is Ebrar, then Vargas followed by İlkin.

    In the table on the right, you can find all players, how they have performed with different setters.

    It is so interesting to observe the critically declined performance of Derya and Saliha, while playing with Elif. It is more or less the same for others except Eda and İlkin. Eda is the least affected player with this swap and it seems like İlkin's performance has been increased with Elif. Rest is up to your judgement.

    Please note that, in the 1st leg, main setter was Cansu and in the 2nd and 3rd leg, it was 50% - 50%. From quarter final and onwards, it was Elif.

  • Türkiye U21:

    Pasör: Özge Arslanalp, Elif Kapar
    Smaçör: Özlem Şahin, Miray Gözübüyük, Tuanna Mallı, Nilsu Şen, Mehtap Öztunalı
    Orta Oyuncu: Bengisu Aygün, Berka Buse Özden, Hatice Secem Ege, Seher Aksoy
    Libero: Selin Adalı, Berre İnce, Zeynep Palabıyık

    So there is no İpar Kurt and instead Tuanna Mallı

  • Hande stalker was caught in Bakırköy Altinli

    hope they don't release him easily. :gone: