Turkey 2023


    I had posted in another site about the block performance by setter for this year's VNL.


    Final stage (Türkiye's blocks - the opponent's blocks)

    Italy 16-6 (Elif)

    USA 18-14 (Elif)

    China 14-5 (Elif)



    Group stage (from last to first):

    Croatia 6-4 (Cansu)

    Brasil 13-5 (Elif)

    Thailand 14-5 (Elif)

    Japan 17-9 (First 2 sets Elif, last 3 sets Cansu)

    Dominik 16-3 (Elif)

    Canada 8-5 (Elif)

    Holland 6-8 (Cansu)

    Polland 7-6 (Cansu)

    USA 3-13 (Cansu)

    Italy 13-8 (Cansu)

    Serbia 10-9 (Cansu)

    South Korea 6-4 (first 2 sets Cansu)

    I really tried to understand this comparison but to be honest, this is far to give any idea about setters performances with block comparsions.

    1- There are many elements to compare the blocks of Türkiye's vs opponents and one of them is the names of the MBs and their skills in blocks at both sides.

    2- Secondly, names of attackers (attack players) and their skills on blockings at both sides so no one can say it was because of Elif or Cansu played and we have these numbers. This is totally speculative and a kind of attempt to convince people to believe in something forcefully and I cannot even say that it is statistics (and cannot even say it is biased). Only a bulk of raw numbers, taken from tables which means nothing to me.

    3- If you want to compare something, you can compare the number of blocks for each setter by per match (average) or for whole tournament. Considering the whole tournament, it is 2 blocks and 14 touches for Cansu and 14 blocks and 7 touches for Elif an that is all.

    4- If you really want to look at the setting performance and the distribution, I can recommend to look at the table, which I shared yesterday, in the post 1055 (the table prepared by Hernandez).

    Quote from MeteA

    I really tried to understand this comparison but to be honest, this is far to give any idea about setters performances with block comparsions.

    1- There are many elements to compare the blocks of Türkiye's vs opponents and one of them is the names of the MBs and their skills in blocks at both sides.

    2- Secondly, names of attackers (attack players) and their skills on blockings at both sides so no one can say it was because of Elif or Cansu played and we have these numbers. This is totally speculative and a kind of attempt to convince people to believe in something forcefully and I cannot even say that it is statistics (and cannot even say it is biased). Only a bulk of raw numbers, taken from tables which means nothing to me.

    3- If you want to compare something, you can compare the number of blocks for each setter by per match (average) or for whole tournament. Considering the whole tournament, it is 2 blocks and 14 touches for Cansu and 14 blocks and 7 touches for Elif an that is all.

    4- If you really want to look at the setting performance and the distribution, I can recommend to look at the table, which I shared yesterday, in the post 1055 (the table prepared by Hernandez).

    2- I do not want to convince anybody for anything.

    4- I have had a look at that table but I cannot figure out how to relate it to block performance.

    Very well deserved win for Poland in the friendly match and congratulations to winner. In my understanding, it doesn't matter whether it is friendly match or tournament. You need to do everything in the court but to be honest, I could not belive my eyes. Never saw Türkiye in a desperate situation. What a pathetic performance both by Derya and Ebrar. Even Gizem was very bad. No defence by OHs (Derya and Ebrar) and bad performance from Gizem. Similarly, attacks by Derya and Ebrar was really very poor. MBs were not much productive either. Only Elif was trying to do something and Vargas was Vargas. In the ist quarter of 3rd set, Ebrar subbed by İlkin and she had 4 balls, 2 of them killed with very strong hits and 2 nice tips also she blocked Stysiak and 0 error in attack but you cannot win with 3 players.

    Still, the question in my mind is; how Santa managed to bear with Derya's and Ebrar's poor performance.

    İt is what it is. Once again, congratulations to Poland.

    Derya is literally tragic and I think she is a complete liability in reception and not useful for a team with turkeys ambition. I Can understand why he is still using Ebrar on the left even though she’s been so bad. If turkey can get her established there offensively the upside is obvious and would make them better so that makes sense to keep trying it. Him trying to make Derya be a thing though is so inexcusable lol. Like at least let Hande start over her. she has her own issues but at least she’s capable of a nice all around match and I don’t think Derya is

    Quote from karakedi

    2- I do not want to convince anybody for anything.

    4- I have had a look at that table but I cannot figure out how to relate it to block performance.

    No offense please. I did not mean to say the you are trying to convince anyone personally. Maybe you took these numbers from somewhere. You cannot reach to anywhere with this sort of figures. You can derive block figures from volleystation.com or volleyballworld.com.

    If you need to work on related data, just let me know your objective and your aim, so that maybe I can help you as a statistician.

    Evaluating setters performance with blocks (other than their own block performance) does not make sense. This is all I can say.

    I don't think, Hande could be an alternative, since her attack performance was not reliable in previous matches. So replacing any of player having poor performance both in defence and attack with the one good defence but doubtful in attack would not help for productivity. İlkin was the best alternative, very good in defence and effective in attack and this is what Santarelli did and at some point it was fruitful but also it was late. My personal thought is, she should be in the starting line up but anyway.

    I don't think, keeping Ebrar in the court all the time is a good idea, especially against strong teams such as Poland, since she has lots of ups and downs within the game and she can drop the team's motivation easily. Another thing in which I did not believe my eyes was, her atitude against Santarelli, almost shouting at him with a tensed face. Not sure what the discussion was but it was caught by Poland TV at the last moment. It was not her first time and she did the same thing in the past as well.

    I have statistics of both Ebrar and Derya in Semi final and Final matches of VNL and to be honest, they were not so solid and promising and we have to be thankful to our MBs and Vargas, performing extraordinary effort and performance. Team mecanics worked very well in those matches but not in this one.

    Lastly, maybe Santa could give a chance to Tuğba as well, but probably her injury was not fully recovered.

    Let's wait for the next matches.

    I find it very insightful! It gives an idea on how good the setter was at leaving attackers against a structured block. It is not of course based on the setter's performance but it is an indication

    Quote from Madden54

    Derya is literally tragic and I think she is a complete liability in reception and not useful for a team with turkeys ambition. I Can understand why he is still using Ebrar on the left even though she’s been so bad. If turkey can get her established there offensively the upside is obvious and would make them better so that makes sense to keep trying it. Him trying to make Derya be a thing though is so inexcusable lol. Like at least let Hande start over her. she has her own issues but at least she’s capable of a nice all around match and I don’t think Derya is

    Hahah wow, I wanna cry now seeing you praising Hande 😂👏👏

    Quote from serdar

    Hahah wow, I wanna cry now seeing you praising Hande 😂👏👏

    I mean she still isn’t that good either but I can’t just deny that she can on occasion have a good all around game. I think Derya is WAY worse though. Like I have no idea how she’s even on the roster. I’d even prefer Saliha to her. I kinda like Saliha as an offensive spark plug option. Derya offers nothing

    Quote from Madden54

    I mean she still isn’t that good either but I can’t just deny that she can on occasion have a good all around game. I think Derya is WAY worse though. Like I have no idea how she’s even on the roster. I’d even prefer Saliha to her. I kinda like Saliha as an offensive spark plug option. Derya offers nothing

    I really do my best to find something to agree with you after all the beef we had but you don't make my life easy😂


    Derya might played bad at this match but you cannot avoid the fact that she was very solid in semis and final match in vnl. I'm not big fan of her neither indeed people can find my previous posts in which I called her multiple times as a lost case, but she surprisingly did well whenever she get a chance to play during VNL. On the other hand Saliha was simply terrible this vnl, she was THE most disappointing player among all the players in vnl roster. She was bad at not only offense but also at reception which is something she is supposed to be good at🤦 at this stage I'm almost sure Ebrar, Hande, İlkin, Derya will be 4 outside we will have for ECh. Santa might take Tuğba as 5th oh in case she shows a good performance during trainings but since she didn't play during the first friendly game, I doubt that she recovered. If she isn't ready then Santa shouldn't waste the last slot with Saliha. Instead he should bring the 3rd libero Ayça as defensive sub

    Quote from serdar

    I really do my best to find something to agree with you after all the beef we had but you don't make my life easy😂


    Derya might played bad at this match but you cannot avoid the fact that she was very solid in semis and final match in vnl. I'm not big fan of her neither indeed people can find my previous posts in which I called her multiple times as a lost case, but she surprisingly did well whenever she get a chance to play during VNL. On the other hand Saliha was simply terrible this vnl, she was THE most disappointing player among all the players in vnl roster. She was bad at not only offense but also at reception which is something she is supposed to be good at🤦 at this stage I'm almost sure Ebrar, Hande, İlkin, Derya will be 4 outside we will have for ECh. Santa might take Tuğba as 5th oh in case she shows a good performance during trainings but since she didn't play during the first friendly game, I doubt that she recovered. If she isn't ready then Santa shouldn't waste the last slot with Saliha. Instead he should bring the 3rd libero Ayça as defensive sub

    Idk Saliha came off the bench for ecza in meaningful matches and played very well. I didnt Watch every single turkey match this VNL but meh. 2 “okay” performances from Derya don’t cut it. Her passing is tragic. Maybe I just have a soft spot for Saliha

    Quote from Madden54

    Idk Saliha came off the bench for ecza in meaningful matches and played very well. I didnt Watch every single turkey match this VNL but meh. 2 “okay” performances from Derya don’t cut it. Her passing is tragic. Maybe I just have a soft spot for Saliha

    Well I can't blame you, she is the prettiest of the team😏


    I don't loose hope from Saliha yet, let's see how she will develop after a season in Polish league. Getting more responsibilities as a foreign player should push her limits

    I enjoy this tight competition between OHs, more importantly, all of the OHs are in teams where they can play in starting 6 whole season: Saliha in Poland, Ilkin in GS, Derya in Japan, Tugba in Kuzeyboru. I hope none of them will be injured and there will be more data for Santarelli to pick the 4th OH.


    I think his choice of Ayca instead of a 5th OH made sense, since none of the OHs could be as useful as her in backrow. However, with Ayca in the back, there is no chance for a pipe attack which makes it obvious that the front OH will get most of the sets. This substitution could be more useful with another OH who could receive and at least attack ok from backrow.


    With this, I hope it is last summer of libero Simge in the NT. Gizem Örge showed that she is much better and Simge was not needed at all during VNL. Ayca was used as a backrow substitution, not Simge either. Moreover, Simge is 32 already, so I would rather invest on Gizem and Ayca duo at this point.

    Quote from serdar

    I find it very insightful! It gives an idea on how good the setter was at leaving attackers against a structured block. It is not of course based on the setter's performance but it is an indication

    How and based on which indication? How can you classify, whether it is because of setters bad sets or bad attack/blocks from OHs/MBs at both sides? I see no logic and not a clear indication in that area, unless you make a drill down analysis based on blocks for OHs.MBs at both sides and yet, this might not result as the fact of any setter. As I said, you can look at both setters individual records for their successful blocks, block errors or set errors, succesful sets (average, percentage etc) and try to compare with each other. Any comment on the numbers of that table is just speculation but anyone who wants to derive someting from that table no problem for me. You can just believe in what you want to.

    Another raw data for your review.

    Elif 714 sets, 126 succesful, 6 errors

    Cansu 627 sets, 118 succesful, 4 errors.

    As it is for some others, I am not on the side of any setters. Both have pros and cons.

    Quote from MeteA

    How and based on which indication? How can you classify, whether it is because of setters bad sets or bad attack/blocks from OHs/MBs at both sides? I see no logic and not a clear indication in that area, unless you make a drill down analysis based on blocks for OHs.MBs at both sides and yet, this might not result as the fact of any setter. As I said, you can look at both setters individual records for their successful blocks, block errors or set errors, succesful sets (average, percentage etc) and try to compare with each other. Any comment on the numbers of that table is just speculation but anyone who wants to derive someting from that table no problem for me. You can just believe in what you want to.

    Another raw data for your review.

    Elif 714 sets, 126 succesful, 6 errors

    Cansu 627 sets, 118 succesful, 4 errors.

    As it is for some others, I am not on the side of any setters. Both have pros and cons.

    Just because you fail to see the indication doesn't mean it is meaningless🤦 with same logic any analysis you made could be meaningless because they only show one aspects of the game and there are many more elements which can distort the conclusions you are making. If a team is getting blocked constantly more while playing with setter A, compared to the times with setter B, it INDICATES one setter has more predictable sets.

    Quote from serdar

    I really do my best to find something to agree with you after all the beef we had but you don't make my life easy😂


    Derya might played bad at this match but you cannot avoid the fact that she was very solid in semis and final match in vnl. I'm not big fan of her neither indeed people can find my previous posts in which I called her multiple times as a lost case, but she surprisingly did well whenever she get a chance to play during VNL. On the other hand Saliha was simply terrible this vnl, she was THE most disappointing player among all the players in vnl roster. She was bad at not only offense but also at reception which is something she is supposed to be good at🤦 at this stage I'm almost sure Ebrar, Hande, İlkin, Derya will be 4 outside we will have for ECh. Santa might take Tuğba as 5th oh in case she shows a good performance during trainings but since she didn't play during the first friendly game, I doubt that she recovered. If she isn't ready then Santa shouldn't waste the last slot with Saliha. Instead he should bring the 3rd libero Ayça as defensive sub

    Everyone thinks so, or want to believe in that Derya's and Ebrar's performance was solid, however Derya was not a shiny player in the semi final and final, not Ebrar either. Both did not have a solid performance in both matches. Here is their statistics in both matches;

    Can anyone say that, these are solid statistics for any of these players for those matches? As I said previously that, team mechanics worked well (especially Vargas and MBs) and this led us to take the top place. Though, both players did their best.

    I agree with your comments about Saliha and same for Tuğba.

    Quote from serdar

    Just because you fail to see the indication doesn't mean it is meaningless🤦 with same logic any analysis you made could be meaningless because they only show one aspects of the game and there are many more elements which can distort the conclusions you are making. If a team is getting blocked constantly more while playing with setter A, compared to the times with setter B, it INDICATES one setter has more predictable sets.

    Me failed? C'mon my friend:lol: You should feel thankful for the long and tiring study in clubbing all figures for all OHs in each and every area, doing extra calculations and analyzing them, in order to give you a holistic picture of each player so all these make sense and you can now observe the reflection of these data for the mentioned players.

    If you talk about just on the numbers, which I have provided above for each setter, those are not statistics but just some raw numbers and this is not the right place to explain you what is number and what is statistic?

    You also contradict with your own words by stressing many more elements. How would you evaluate the rotations/performance of the players by setter in a simple table? How would you evaluate the opponent's strength by setter in a simple table? What is the relation of Turkish blocks vs setter (except their own block performance, including block assists)?

    You can continue with what you want to believe but I cannot derive anything from that table which does not give any insight on its own. I do not under estimate any work or data but all I am saying is that, for this kind of statistics, it definitely needs further drill down analysis and statistical modeling, which can be done only by the coaches and team statisticians who has all other details for each and every moment for each and every player. Rest is just speculations on these numbers.

    Quote from MeteA

    Me failed? C'mon my friend:lol: You should feel thankful for the long and tiring study in clubbing all figures for all OHs in each and every area, doing extra calculations and analyzing them, in order to give you a holistic picture of each player so all these make sense and you can now observe the reflection of these data for the mentioned players.

    If you talk about just on the numbers, which I have provided above for each setter, those are not statistics but just some raw numbers and this is not the right place to explain you what is number and what is statistic?

    You also contradict with your own words by stressing many more elements. How would you evaluate the rotations/performance of the players by setter in a simple table? How would you evaluate the opponent's strength by setter in a simple table? What is the relation of Turkish blocks vs setter (except their own block performance, including block assists)?

    You can continue with what you want to believe but I cannot derive anything from that table which does not give any insight on its own. I do not under estimate any work or data but all I am saying is that, for this kind of statistics, it definitely needs further drill down analysis and statistical modeling, which can be done only by the coaches and team statisticians who has all other details for each and every moment for each and every player. Rest is just speculations on these numbers.

    I think you spend soooo much time on making your own analysis anything but yours look meaningless🤦


    Check definition of 'indication' in vocabulary. Noone is making conclusions here but this one set of data could be an indication of setters performance in comparison to each other. It is not an ultimate proof, neither your super complex analysis😉

    Quote from serdar

    I think you spend soooo much time on making your own analysis anything but yours look meaningless🤦


    Check definition of 'indication' in vocabulary. Noone is making conclusions here but this one set of data could be an indication of setters performance in comparison to each other. It is not an ultimate proof, neither your super complex analysis😉

    Look Serdar, this is getting frustrating. Firstly you are not the one to tell me the meaning of 'indication'. Secondly, you were the one who liked the statistics, which I have clubbed at the end of eliminations and put in order in each and every area and for all players in particular position and you made positive comments on it. This even contradicts with what you like and what you say. You also try to under estimate a study by defining it 'super complex analysis'. Your problem is, you cannot stand with any critics on your thoughts (or belief) and as I understood, you have a scientist! super ego.

    I never claimed that I have performed a 'super complex analysis', since all my studies are based on some formal raw data on which, simple calculations, simulations and ranks were conducted which was good enough to provide some ballpark indications. 'Super complex analysis' in statistics, is far beyond your imaginations, which I will not mention any of them here.

    I tried to be kind and helpful, asking to user who shared the table, his/her objective and his/her aim with full of good thoughts, tried to help if I could but you intervened with your cynical wordings, not even taking into consideration my reasonings (why it is not an indication and how it can be).

    From this moment onwards, I will not continue with the discussion on the same topic, since this will not help to anyone and will not add any value to anything so I leave you and the user(s) who thinks in the same way as you do (if there is any) and I will repeat the same words once again. You just believe in what you want to believe.