Uuuups. Can you please stop there? Logan? C'mon.
Before writing that, I wished you could check the stats.
Logan %43 Marina %41. Similarly in RC Index Logan 0.3034 Marina 0,2559.
So while everybody criticize her-Logan (including me), please don't try to defend Marina with these numbers by comparing her with Logan.
markova : %41 poz %27 mük %13 eff
logan: %43 poz %15 mülk %3 eff
I thought you know how to read the stats?
Well I can't take your argument serious because Best Scorer ranks are pointless, if one player gets a lot of sets, she will end up high in that ranking in most of the cases. To call her best, attacking ratio and reception average are the criteria to check. Especially her reception stats (41%) is lagging behind of other offensive OHs in the league.
Do you have any other counter arguments except “Best Scorer” (yes, it is not quite indicative)?
Points/set ratio?
Wing-spiker Attack Rnk?
Wing-spiker Reception Rnk?
I suppose you’ll be able to find these data and they’re objective enough.
At least her reception is better than Guerra’s (33%) and White’s (31%).
markova : %41 poz %27 mük %13 eff
logan: %43 poz %15 mülk %3 eff
I thought you know how to read the stats?
Yes I do. Furthermore I know how to calculate and derive pos and perf. So? Pos is the sum of Positive and Perfect passes in %. Pos (which covers pos and perf) is the reliable number for the performance of a player at reception. In addition, RC index is another important indicator. Honestly I do not know, what you really trying to prove here.... Markova is a great passer? Or Muratpaşa lost because Markova was subbed?
Display MoreThank you for overall statistics data but I’ve acquainted myself with it yet.
Your reply looks a bit one-sided. You forgot some comparable data:
#3 - So what? Guerra is better blocker while Markova is better attacker.
#5 Markova did 5 mistakes and Guerra did 5 mistakes too;
#6 Markova was blocked 5 times (for 4 sets) and Guerra was blocked 6 times in four sets.
“To stop Emily” - how? - to substitute a player with 198 cm and 0.0068 block ranking for a player with 186 cm and 0.034 block ranking. Excellent decision for … Besiktas.
Everything got mixed up.
1- Comparing a poor performance with another does not help to anyone or anything.
2- Overall statistics means a lot but match statistics is someting else. You cannot insist on a player, having great statistics overall but performing poorly in a particular match.
Simply talking about Beşiktaş match, Marina was ok at attack but was not OK at reception, similarly at blockings (overall at defense).
If you have further question about why Marina was benched in the 5th set, you had better check with Muratpaşa coach directly.
I can comment about what I watched and observed.
Yes I do. Furthermore I know how to calculate and derive pos and perf. So? Pos is the sum of Positive and Perfect passes in %. Pos (which covers pos and perf) is the reliable number for the performance of a player at reception. In addition, RC index is another important indicator. Honestly I do not know, what you really trying to prove here.... Markova is a great passer? Or Muratpaşa lost because Markova was subbed?
Dude you are saying Logan and some other names are better than Markova at reception by just looking 2 stats and I give you 3 different main stats and show the difference.
let's look at again with more details;
Markova. %41 poz %27 mük %11 eff %8.2 error 426 balls, 0.256 RC index
Logan: %43 poz %15 mük %3 eff %13.2 error 78 balls, 0.303 RC
She is much better receiver than some of you say.
btw Rc index: "positive receptions minus negative receptions divided by total receptions"
so ı think it is like you are looking mainly %poz reception stats and say Logan is better.
Display MoreDude you are saying Logan and some other names are better than Markova at reception by just looking 2 stats and I give you 3 different main stats and show the difference.
let's look at again with more details;
Markova. %41 poz %27 mük %11 eff %8.2 error 426 balls, 0.256 RC index
Logan: %43 poz %15 mük %3 eff %13.2 error 78 balls, 0.303 RC
She is much better receiver than some of you say.
btw Rc index: "positive receptions minus negative receptions divided by total receptions"
so ı think it is like you are looking mainly %poz reception stats and say Logan is better.
Before you share anything, I can advise you to double check or cross check.
The sum of Markova's reception errors are 35 and 35/426 is 8.22%
The sum of Logan's reception errors are 13 and 13/178 is 7.30%
7.30<8.22
& btw, the calculation method of RC index, already written in TVF table at the bottom.
Once again, your problem is not Logan's talents, it is how Markova is poorly performing at reception.
Will you guys get a life?
Do you have any other counter arguments except “Best Scorer” (yes, it is not quite indicative)?
Points/set ratio?
Wing-spiker Attack Rnk?
Wing-spiker Reception Rnk?I suppose you’ll be able to find these data and they’re objective enough.
At least her reception is better than Guerra’s (33%) and White’s (31%).
I check attacking ratio and reception stats for comparing outside hitters as long as each of them attacked to a reasonable amount of sets. If these two criteria are comparable for both, I also check their service and block stats. best scorer is the least indicative one unless it is backed up with a good attacking ratio (40+% for an OH, 45+% for an opp and 50+% for an MB)
Will you guys get a life?
I thought the purpose of this forum was to encourage people to discuss on some volleyball topics.
Will you guys get a life?
While people are attacking each other, I see that you usually keep quiet but here we are just discussing on a topic at a decent level, trying not to hurt each other, just sharing our opinions and numbers. So what is the reason of intervening? If you don't like the topic, then you can just skip. I loved the discussion with MTS and ROL.
I thought the purpose of this forum was to encourage people to discuss on some volleyball topics.
It is, but IMO discussing for dozens of posts about why a player did not start in one set and going into any available mathematical details doesn't really lead anywhere.
She has the best attack ratio in the league among OHs? it is not about getting tons of balls. She is clearly the best OH at attacking.
Also, at reception Markova is much better than Arina, Logan and Gray. These are some of the OHs that are using as attacking OH in the top teams of the leauges. her reception stats are almost same with Anthi.
Bad comparisons: Literally anyone is better than Gray.😂 Markova is not much better than Logan who is also a terrible receiver🤦 she should be comparable to Sarah wilhite or Frantti as offensive OHs but Markova is clearly worse than them, and many others. Anyways before Lee left the league she was better than Markova at both reception and attack.
Display MoreBefore you share anything, I can advise you to double check or cross check.
The sum of Markova's reception errors are 35 and 35/426 is 8.22%
The sum of Logan's reception errors are 13 and 13/178 is 7.30%
7.30<8.22
& btw, the calculation method of RC index, already written in TVF table at the bottom.
Once again, your problem is not Logan's talents, it is how Markova is poorly performing at reception.
still her %excellent and %efficiency are much better. Their errors and %positives are similar.
Will you guys get a life?
Says the guy who is online on the forum 24/7
Bad comparisons: Literally anyone is better than Gray.😂 Markova is not much better than Logan who is also a terrible receiver🤦 she should be comparable to Sarah wilhite or Frantti as offensive OHs but Markova is clearly worse than them, and many others. Anyways before Lee left the league she was better than Markova at both reception and attack.
Why Wilhite and Frantti?
Frantti is not that good attacker as Markova. I would not categorize her as attaking OH. she is not that type of player for Vakıfbank.
And about Wilhite, I think we should categorize her as an allround Oh. That would be more apporite than attacking OH.
btw, Wilhite's reception stats in 2020-21 season when she plays like this year's Markova; %37 pos %21exc %7 eff 459 balls 31 errors
Markova's this year: %41 pos %28 exc %11 eff 426 balls 35 errors
Display MoreWhy Wilhite and Frantti?
Frantti is not that good attacker as Markova. I would not categorize her as attaking OH. she is not that type of player for Vakıfbank.
And about Wilhite, I think we should categorize her as an allround Oh. That would be more apporite than attacking OH.
btw, Wilhite's reception stats in 2020-21 season when she plays like this year's Markova; %37 pos %21exc %7 eff 459 balls 31 errors
Markova's this year: %41 pos %28 exc %11 eff 426 balls 35 errors
Wilhite was definitely an attacking Oh for many years, even this year she carried the scoring load of Kuzeyboru. Good that she improved her reception a lot this season and growing as an allround OH. However considering her role and the amount of swing she had to do for her club is very comparable to Markova (508 vs 493)
I love Wilhite, while she is certainly tall enough, however: she is one of those players that remind us being incredibly tall isn't the only way to be a killer spiker. Her spiking technique is so beautiful and effortless and her court knowledge is chef's kiss. Reception improved a lot too.
Kuzeyboru definitely is my fave team overall this season. And it's nice that they are not an Istanbul team. Muratpaşa was about to become my favorite too but Vakif complete ruined their rythm ngl, I lowkey understand the management and coachs frustration at this whole Markova event.
I love Wilhite, while she is certainly tall enough, however: she is one of those players that remind us being incredibly tall isn't the only way to be a killer spiker. Her spiking technique is so beautiful and effortless and her court knowledge is chef's kiss. Reception improved a lot too.
Kuzeyboru definitely is my fave team overall this season. And it's nice that they are not an Istanbul team. Muratpaşa was about to become my favorite too but Vakif complete ruined their rythm ngl, I lowkey understand the management and coachs frustration at this whole Markova event.
Kuzeyboru is one of my favorite teams too but I was cheering for them like last 3-4 seasons and they did make a good team every season since they promoted to the sultanlar ligi. However they managed to flop because of bad coaching. Although their current coach is not my favorite neither, they seem to finally show full potential of their roster for once
I don't want to jynx them until I see them in playoff🙏
still her %excellent and %efficiency are much better. Their errors and %positives are similar.
I would like to comment on your opinion and comparisons for the last time.
There is no formal data for reception efficiency however, having an impression that, you have are enthusiastic in numbers, the reception efficiency is supposed to be calculated with the formula [Positive receptions (which consist of Pos+Perf) - Reception Errors)/ Total Receptions]. Even if we go with this formula, Logan is 35% and Markova is 33% which both end with low (not strong) reception performance. Other eff do not make much sense. Otherwise Markova should have better RC index figure than Logan.
Also, continuing on this point by comparing Markova with Logan is pointless.
A solid/strong OH should be strong in all areas and particularly at attack, reception. In addition to these indicators, if the player has good stats at blockings (plus digs), we name her/him as fully skilled complete OH.
Arina, Markova, Kunzler or Anthi reached to great attacker performance but cannot be considered as being fully skilled and great performer in all mentioned areas. So yes, they are just great attackers.
By referring to current stats, Wilhite, Gabi and İlkin can be considered as strong OH's, In addition, Meliha, Tuğba, Hande and Dimitrova are also pushing this class. All these strong OH's still have room to improve so you should accept that, Marina also need to imrove in mentioned areas (reception and blockings) in which she is not strong recently.
Better discuss who is best (though there is no end of it) but discussing on who is worst or about who is having lowest performance insistently, do not add anything into this topic.
Just have in mind, if a good attacker fails in attack and do not have good defensive skills, is considered lost player on the court.
we name her/him as fully skilled complete OH.
to be fair, i can only count in one hand players that belong to this category. They're pretty rare. And since volleyball is THE team sport, lots of attackers can get away with less defense and less reception because there are now specialized positions to deal with it more (unlike before).
We might as well call them unicorns, these players who are "complete"