Naturalisation

Quote from inc0gnito

She last played for the NT in 2021 at the Tokyo Olympics. She is already 36, so i think she is as good as retired now that Russia will not be back to international competitions in the near future.

This is Kosheleva's generation, so she will naturally leave volleyball anyway. After finishing her career, Kosheleva got a job with the youth sector in Vallefoglia. It's good that Italian clubs reach out to such people from other country, because you can't just close yourself to your own school. On the other hand, Kosheleva herself seems happy in Italy and intends to move there permanently.

Quote from Realista

Russia has ran a policy of systemic scouting and naturalization of the most talented Eastern European players: it was mutually beneficial, player X could've played as a local in Russian league/potentially on better national team, Russia got decent talent to take a use of. It's obviously understandable as for historic reasons Ukraine, Belarus and Russia were interwoven, so sense of identity for post-USSR generation was pretty complicated. Dmitry Muserskiy, Sergey Tetyukhin and Taras Khtey from golden 2012 Russian team were scouted to move to Russia as 16-17yo from independent Ukraine and Uzbekistan, but they were all born in Soviet Union, Aleksander Butko played for Belarusian NT before naturalization, same with Nikola Pavlov and Ukraine.

Recently, it changed, especially on male part we see decent Ukrainian national team (QF at the WCH 2022) for obvious reasons, in case of Belarusian players, Russians were able to naturalize Klyuka or Denis Bogdan, but not Vlad Davyskiba or Vlad Babkevich. Even with being fully back to the international vball, it would be much more difficult for Russia to run this previous policy, as Goncharova or Butko wouldn't be able to switch eligibility to play for Russia under the new rules. And these players like Goncharova or Pavlov were obviously crucial for some major successes of Russian volleyball in the past 15 years.

But it's obviously even more complicated in volleyball due to limits of foreigners - it's just profitable for player X to switch federation allegiance to be counted as a local in respective league. You may discuss what player X is thinking or not, but being local is sometimes giving you 50% higher contract, or even opportunity to get this contract in the first place, that's one of the reasons why most of these crucial naturalizations occur in strong financially leagues. Who took an advantage of Cuban players switching their NTs? Poland, Brazil, Italy, Turkey - so top4 leagues in the world? Yeah, you know why. Sebastian Sole retired from Argentinian NT, took an advantage of having Italian ancestors, switched his federation allegiance to Italy - and not because he wanted to play for Italy NT, but to be counted as a local in Serie A. Insane.

FIVB tries to manage this madness and promotes this idea of homegrown players instead of limits of foreigners - for now, unsuccessully. That's I presume is one of the reasons they made these rules more strict - because we saw several instances of players switching their NTs for sake of being a local in respective league. Wassim Ben Tara openly said that he wanted to get Polish sports federation to be counted as a local in Plusliga. And FIVB went into 'not under my watch' mode, hahah, with these new rules. Rich federations can still systematically scout young talent in less developed areas, but it will be much more difficult for them to naturalize already ready stars as in the past. Actually, I don't think we'll hear any of that in the next years with these new rules - besides already explained case of young Russian players, like Markova.

Display More

https://sport.quotidiano.net/e…-e-italia-volley-oxd8yili

In this case, there is no doubt that she is Italian. As for Mifkova or Sorokaite, I don`t know their stories very well but they were rather secondary players who played for the Italian team temporarily. The only 100% example of a naturalization to the Italian women's team was Aguero from 2007-2009. At that time the Italian team was really struggling after Togut left them and reaching for Aguero turned out to be a bull's eye and allowed them to achieve great success.

Quote from Steven12453

I just get annoyed when I notice people pretending they don't understand something. The guys have explained to you about 1000000 times specifically about Boskovic, why they are not naturalized players and even though you have understood it, you insist on saying your own. Get over it. Turkey bought a player and not Serbia.

And I explained 1000000 times that it is the same. As they can share their opinion countless times on this topic over and over again, I can share mine. Why did it hurt you so much?

If someone will bring the topic to ridicule turkey, they should expect the same discussion will open again on other examples too. So either stop commenting on this topic or don't be upset someone else would disagree with you on other examples. Clear?😉

Quote from Winrip

I`m sure it wouldn`t be a such issue if Vargas had chosen Serbia or one of the other teams, but i can`t prove it.

Some people vomiting their grudge, make jokes and create pages of discussion just over a rumor about Markova shows actually how much Vargas hurts. She had no country to play, literally shut out of Cuban Volleyball. She could have chosen any team. She is playing since 8 years in Turkey and Turkey is not the first country who naturalize Players, some other Teams had/have more Naturalized ones, it never became a problem. So get over it.

Then again some users constantly trying to provoke türkisch users over Vargas and to insult with subtile meanings in their comments. Trying to generalize all the work and investments of Federation over 30 years just by repeating again that, all the success has come with a player. Why couldn't Vargas win the trophies this year for Turkey? Could it be because its a team game? Turkish NT was always in QF, SF and Finals in many tournaments over 20 years, but they didn't had the winning experience back then and crumbled in clutch moments. They had to endure and to go through sometimes worst possibility results like against Korea in Tokyo.

If you could stop trying to stick false claims over Turkish NT in every occasion, then you may not get to taste your own medicine.

Display More

Very well said👏👏

Quote from serdar

Very well said👏👏

I have the impression that after last season Turkey thought that Vargas was some kind of messiah and would solve all the team's problems. This season has shown that he is not. You need a well-coordinated team, and one player - even the best - will never solve the problem. Naturalization can help, but it will never be enough to achieve success if the rest of the team is in poor form and is in the low level.

Quote from serdar

And I explained 1000000 times that it is the same. As they can share their opinion countless times on this topic over and over again, I can share mine. Why did it hurt you so much?

If someone will bring the topic to ridicule turkey, they should expect the same discussion will open again on other examples too. So either stop commenting on this topic or don't be upset someone else would disagree with you on other examples. Clear?😉

The nationality is not an opinion. It is what it is. I annoying by the hypocrisy but anyway if this makes you feel better, then ok.

Quote from Steven12453

The nationality is not an opinion. It is what it is. I annoying by the hypocrisy but anyway if this makes you feel better, then ok.

Well I'm annoyed by you but what can we do?😂

Quote from Copravolley22

I have the impression that after last season Turkey thought that Vargas was some kind of messiah and would solve all the team's problems. This season has shown that he is not. You need a well-coordinated team, and one player - even the best - will never solve the problem. Naturalization can help, but it will never be enough to achieve success if the rest of the team is in poor form and is in the low level.

Rest of the team level is not low in turkey, almost everyone was injured. We know how this team can play when everyone is healthy. Fingers crossed for a healtier season next summer

Well, true hypocrisy ist closing the eyes when other teams naturalizing players, then complaining, ridiculing and making jokes about it when türkisch NT does that.

Quote from serdar

Rest of the team level is not low in turkey, almost everyone was injured. We know how this team can play when everyone is healthy. Fingers crossed for a healtier season next summer

We also had a lot of injuries: Pietrini, Degradi. Personally, I didn't believe we could win gold with such a weak bench at receiver.

Quote from Winrip

Well, true hypocrisy ist closing the eyes when other teams naturalizing players, then complaining, ridiculing and making jokes about it when türkisch NT does that.

I'm not complaining. I'm surprised because I think it's the wrong way to go. I've always been a supporter of investing in local young players. That's the foundation of a healthy movement. And if we get someone like Antropova who expresses a desire to play for us, then all the better.

Quote from Copravolley22

I'm not complaining. I'm surprised because I think it's the wrong way to go. I've always been a supporter of investing in local young players. That's the foundation of a healthy movement. And if we get someone like Antropova who expresses a desire to play for us, then all the better.

What you say is completely true. I would never think that a Federation could purposefully look for foreign youngsters to naturalize instead of investing their own locals. Nor would I accuse any Federation about it, its nonsense. Turkish U20 won recently ECH and U17 is doing also well until now, which shows that Turkish Fed. ist on the right way in my opinion.

However Vargas`s case utterly different. Something like that could happen once in a lifetime, and that was total disaster of Cuban Federation, that they literally left her alone in the world. We all know what she has been through all the time. Turkey didn't intentionally grasped her from the hands of Cuba. She was already in Turkey and had no relation with Cuba. She has become then an opportunity, believe me any team in the would want to have her. Serbia tried it, Turkey won it. Thats all, nothing more.

However again, after the rumors of Markova started the common accusations again, as if Turkish NT is doing nothing but purposefully looking all the time for other naturalization possibilities, they are greedy, Turkish NT will be full of foreign players in 2028 etc. which is ridicules. The Achievements of U20, U17 teams are the best answer, if people wants to see this objectively.

Quote from Winrip

What you say is completely true. I would never think that a Federation could purposefully look for foreign youngsters to naturalize instead of investing their own locals. Nor would I accuse any Federation about it, its nonsense. Turkish U20 won recently ECH and U17 is doing also well until now, which shows that Turkish Fed. ist on the right way in my opinion.

Right way? No looking for foreigners?

So best player of u22 team is not Romanian girl Caratasu? Best player of u20 is not kazakstan/rusian girl Liza Safranova? And how many more girls there is from bosnia that played tournament or too for turkiye?

https://ossrb.org/images/Vesti/24/bpe6.jpg I guess and this girl Nejla Guzonjic, best player of U16 team is also Turkish.

https://women.volleybox.net/nejla-guzonjic-p181853/clubs

Yes, we see bunch of good local turkish players in pipelines.

Quote from volleySrb

Right way? No looking for foreigners?

So best player of u22 team is not Romanian girl Caratasu? Best player of u20 is not kazakstan/rusian girl Liza Safranova? And how many more girls there is from bosnia that played tournament or too for turkiye?

https://ossrb.org/images/Vesti/24/bpe6.jpg I guess and this girl Nejla Guzonjic, best player of U16 team is also Turkish.

https://women.volleybox.net/nejla-guzonjic-p181853/clubs

Yes, we see bunch of good local turkish players in pipelines.

Display More

Liza Safronova was born and raised in TR. Do you think the same for Paola Egonu as well, like the former president of Serbian volleyball federation?

Quote from Justbegoodtome

Liza Safronova was born and raised in TR. Do you think the same for Paola Egonu as well like the former president of Serbian volleyball federation?

This is total lie, girl mather played for Kazakhstan, she have her father last name and have kazakstanian password.

The fact that her mather married Turkish guy few years ago cannot change girl nationality.

And is not possible for girl to be born in Turkiye when her mather played in Ukraine in 2006/

Quote from volleySrb

And is not possible for girl to be born in Turkiye when her mather played in Ukraine in 2006/

She must be very strong that she went to the labour straight from the court Are you OK? ( no insults intended just out of curiousity)

Quote from volleySrb

This is total lie, girl mather played for Kazakhstan, she have her father last name and have kazakstanian password.

The fact that her mather married Turkish guy few years ago cannot change girl nationality.

You mean like Boskovic was Born in Bosnia? This Hypocrisy and double standard accusations ist got boring already.

Quote from Justbegoodtome

She must be very strong that she went to the labour straight from the court Are you retarded? ( no insults intended just out of curiousity)

No, she come to Turkiye specially to have birth and than return to Ukraine and Kazakhstan

Quote from volleySrb

No, she come to Turkiye specially to have birth and than return to Ukraine and Kazakhstan

good for her