Posts by alde

There is no difference between key players whatever their positions are unless they cannot be replaced fully because it infects whole team in similiar aspect. What I meant is that there is no team in Turkey to back up all critical players especially Turkish ones. If you think opposite is not a key position and easily handled then assume Vakifbank and Eczacibası without Neslihan and Glinka in a game against Fenerbahce. Coach's choices are not my business, I just can say my opinion.

Champions league is not a national organization and cannot be compared. Geographical limitations never allow international organizations to follow the same regulations with national ones. If you dont see that basic point then search for the differences between those competitions on any sport around the world. Beside someone will ask then why they dont organize final game as one match or normal season as qualification round? They are in different levels and have different meanings and rules.

Olympic games qualification is just an excuse. You say as if Turkey is the only country which will play in qualifications and it makes federation right to take unfair decides. Like I said round-rubin system is fairer and takes shorter period if they really want to get some space in schedule. I dont think no one would question the winner then but when you set it up like this, one side would always think it's not fair for it simply seems so. If you were a Fener fan, you would claim the regulation is wrong. If Eczacibasi have lost yesterday, they would say it's. So it's not about Fenerbahce. The system itself gives one side the right to criticize because it's not well organized to stop arguments about it. Did you see anyone that says system is not fair about older champions? Were people talking about play-off system or games recent years here? If we are now discussing the rules as much as games it's because something is wrong. It's federation's mission to make a justice regulation and that play-off chaos doesnt meet those conditions for everyone. This is where you get all the season's effort and no one including president has right to make that simple to lose or win everything for players and teams. Try to put yourself players' and coaches' positions, maybe then you might get better understanment. If we lost in a system like last year, I would never write about this and I dont think anyone would.

As for domination. I am giving the last three season because two teams compete each other on every top level for 3 years and it's not an old period to compare the teams. If you want, this is how it is season for season:

2009-10 6-1 for Fener
2010-11 6-2 for Fener
2011-12 2-1 for Fener

It doesnt seem a balanced rivalry. I am sure you will not claim Vakifbank didnt show real power since play-off finals are not important.

I am not begging anyone, I am just a fan and dont care wild card. If team can't get it this year, there are a lot of seasons to go. It's not the end of the world.

Quote from serdar

You can criticize the Play-off system (for me it is not that much big deal, purpose was to give national team more time to prepare olympic qualification, which really makes sense.) but blaming federation for the defeat is not logical for me. Even though you don't like the system it was not a last minute decision right? so eveybody knew that since the beginning of season. So FB had time to take some measures, but they didn't.

It is very obvious that Seda has chronic injury (she had many injuries last 3 seasons) and even though she is such a healthy player, a team which has such big roster mustn't trust Yağmus as a only back-up. And also you are wrong about Vakıfbank's case and you miss an important point too: Gözde was very important for team both attacking and receving whereas Seda is only attacker. And as you said It is even possible to put Eda or Duygu as opp to compensate Seda's absent. Everybody knows that the easiest position to adaptate to a team is always opposite players but can you claim same thing about a receiver/attacker OH?

To sum up, firstly although I also prefer the play-off system of last season instead of this one, I can understand the reasons of federation (in the favor of NT) and it is not a valid excuse for me since regulations were clear since the beginning of the season Also it is the same case with Champions League Final Four, only one match determine the champion and they also ignore group results and only one match for being champion and Fenerbahçe did it, right? so it is not that much awkward. Moreover, naming Vakıfbank's success is only because of luck or regulation is purely disrespectful You got same regulation as Vakıfbank has and the same luck when Gözde were injured.

Secondly, I think that FB makes a very stupid mistake by not transfering any other spiker except or instead of Yağmur.

Thirdly, I don't also agree about your claim about the huge dominations between Vakıfbank and Fenerbahçe. First of all, if you compare two teams it must be season by season instead of over all results(because if you talk about last 3 three season I can give you last 6 seasons results which almost makes results even ) And for season by season comparation, for me each match doesnot have the same value. And since Vakıfbank shows a better performance with the most crucial ones, for me , they are better or let's say there is no huge domination (but it is totally different understanding of definition of 'dominating' word, I can understand your opinion too )

Lastly, don't forget that the federation you blame would beg CEV to have a Wild Card for Fenerbahçe next season

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You are missing some points. Let's back the last season. Can you tell me how Vakifbank tolerated Gozde's injury on the middle of finals? They simply not. Where was their deep squad then? Turkish player pool is not enough to back up all critical positions even just for top 3 teams. Let's assume more examples. Who wil replace Neslihan in Eczacibasi or Gizem in Vakifbank against Fenerbahce? Fenerbahce did resist on such a crisis more than Vakifbank did on last season finals. Actually they might handle Seda's missing more effectively replacing Eda for Yagmur then positioning Duygu-Ipek for middle but Ze Roberto didnt try this which I dont understand why. In any way it would get better than other option and break the balance for Fener again. And in fact if semi finals would play as a series Fenerbahce could find a combination like I described to overcome Seda's missing but Federation gave them no time. On the other side Vakifbank couldnt do this neither even if they had that chance last season. Remember? And that is the difference between two teams. When Fenerbahce have disadvantages like yesterday, Vakifbank win very hardly or sometimes lose (like they beat Vakifbank without Osmokrovic last season's final game). If Vakifbank in the same position, Fenerbahce dominate the game. If two teams are in their best conditions or there is a series to win then Vakifbank have no chance as we have seen many times before. Only exception for this might be CL game in last year. Two teams met 18 times during last three seasons. Fenerbahce lost 4 games which are all of them with 3-2, won 14 games which are most with clear scores like 3-1, 3-0. Overall one victory and stupid regulation dont change the fact that Fenerbahce is still better team than Vakifbank.

As for play-off system. It reminds me Maccabi's situation on Israeli National Basketball League. But in Israel everyone including Federation accept this system is set up to stop Maccabi and make more competitive league. In Turkey excuses are different but the path is almost the same. Fenerbahce lost only one time in 86 games during three seasons plus play-offs. There is no team to beat Fenerbahce in 3 consecutive games in Turkey in current conditions. In fact the team have never lost two consecutive games for 4 years in Turkey and Europe or any organization they compete. I have no doubt that Unal Karabiyik the President of Turkish Federation knows that fact. The system basically is like a trap that seems to set to stop the favorite team. Normal season leader was clearly showed up after Fenerbahce beat all other competitors for the crown with clear sets in just five days. And now you ignore all the games before as if they were never played, you match semi finals as 1-3, 2-4 punishing normal season's best team and rewarding others for their performances which is a totally joke and tie all season's fate to one game. There would be no way to apply such an injustice and nonsense regulation in any other national league organization or top competitions like NBA. Even if you try to suggest it in a forum like this, you simply become a figure of stupid. Try it on any competition's forum and see the result with your own eyes and then share your experience here If i am wrong. If you are a director or something like it and still very serious for this idea, you lose your chair and not get any job within that organization in a normal world. But this is Turkey where one man with power doesnt need to find a sense of purpose to take mad decisions because there is no one to stop him. You cannot say system is fair to all teams. Fenerbahce won 25 games without a lose and then Vakifbank beat them once. Season is finished. Second team Eczacibasi played the weakest team Galatasaray and easily made up the finals. There is no second chance and you call it fair?

If federation could really want a fair competition then they would make a round-robin system with top four teams as they did five years ago. Turkish volleyball fans can easily remember the terms championship group (top 4 teams) or classifaciton group (other four teams). And It would be definetelly completed in the same time period like this one maybe shorter. But instead they have chosen a system that is never seen around before.

Fenerbahce might get what they deserved but every team has limits. Sometimes you get more handicaps than you can handle and then fate is unavoidable. It's time to move on for Fenerbahce for next season. Luck and rules will not be with Vakifbank forever.

Quote from serdar

Yes sorry but for me not big difference (It is not because I trust Duygu or İpek so much, reason is probably Selime or Seray doesnot have same meaning as you have )

if your arrivals are playing in the same conditions and still play well even in the case of injuries, it is not fair to blame federation. And having a good spiker as a bench player does not mean use them lik how Galatasaray used Seray For example Vakıfbank using Güldeniz in a very efficient way in my opinion.

All in all, from my perspective it was soo obvious that they would have a big trouble in the case of Seda's injury, so it is a huge mistake to only trust Yağmur and hope no injury for seda (indeed she is known with her frequent injuries )

hmetin

Fenerbahce doesnt trust Seda. If they do, they would not replace her with Gamova after a season which she was MVP in Turkey and the best scorer in Cev Cup and now with Kasia or Sokolova. Can you say Seda is less talented than Ortolani? Fenerbahce has invested Seda as an opposite for almost four years but when it came to get return for this investment, the club changed the strategy. Because club and community are impatient. And now Seda is supposed to be an OH after 7-8 years played as opposite. Beside Fenerbahce is doing it wrong way. How can you expect Seda as a standart OH while using her sometimes Opposite sometimes OH and mostly keeping on the bench? Fenerbahce fans always say National Team is not our matter and they were complaining why Seda doesnt play instead of Neslihan in NT but club now tries to make Seda the same way as in National Team. I dont understand this.

As you know this is a habit for Fenerbahce community in other sports too. You cannot give any name for any Turkish young talent in any team sport which Fenerbahce has helped improving and bring out from junior level for last 10 years or more. The only name you can mention might be Omer Asik young center of basketball team but we can see how he and the club made the things a big mess nowadays. And other young talent Emre Batur in men volleyball has the similiar problems with Seda. Fenerbahce really doesnt know how to make a junior player progress to a star or first class. And other young players coming to the club as a hot prospect cant show enough progress due to this mentality. Maybe Preldzic will be an exception but it doesnt change current status in the big picture.

You have right to criticize Fenerbahce or any other team's monopol policy on the market and damaging balances between the teams but you may not exactly say what will happen before the season ends. Yes there are similiar examples in the past of European Volleyball but it doesnt mean Fenerbahce will end through the same way. As for monopoly. There are many teams on other sports trying to build an hegemony like Spartak Moscow Region and other Russian teams with abnormal budgets in Women Basketball so this season FIVB got new regulations to prevent some teams damage competition's consistence. And I can say Euroleague will be more balanced compared past seasons. Current rules in Volleyball allow monopolization. Maybe CEV should also try some arrangments but as far as I can see CEV doesnt seem to make something about it for now.

Fenerbahce is not that lucky and has not the same conditions with Spartak. As if I were you, I would not bother that much thinking about it because Fenerbahce has foreign limit inside country. This is a big problem to get through. Team managers have chosen hard way to get the goals maybe the club is right on its choice. We will see it on next stage. If Fenerbahce fails, the team will probably lose its Turkish players and it will be very hard to rebuild it. So it may be a good example for other clubs intending the same way. If Fenerbahce gets an happy ending then other clubs will have to get their budgest higher to compete with Fenerbahce and this is not something bad for competition and players. Fenerbahce or any similiar club have money and they can spend it any way they want unless CEV wont make something. It's not our business to say someone having money that he should spend his money like that way not this way.

Fenerbahce will start to remind me of Novara in 2006 if they will get two or more big stars. I hope the end wont be the same.

Quote from Matthias

And what is the big surprise they promised?

He said we will talk about it later. Maybe it might be a setter (Feng?), libero (Korotenko?) or coach. Who knows.

Quote from Pedro

Is anyone watching Skowronska's presentation?

What is that journalist talking about fort 10 straight minutes???

Actually that man doesnt know what he says

He asked do you know Sokolova I mean have you met her regularly beacuse Jesi and Pesaro are near towns. Kasia said she is not too close her and she hopes to be friends from that moment on.

And then he asked Fenerbahce has two opposites so what Kasia thinks about it. But Aydinlar the chief of sponsor company answered this question not Kasia and he said Sokolova is supposed to play as OH so that wont be a problem.

And he asked if Fenerbahce paid a transfer fee to Pesaro for Kasia. Aydinlar said yes we did but he didnt tell how much it is.

And last question is about the coach Jan de Brandt. The rest is crap. No need to translate here.

Quote from rainbow

To Turkish fans I have a question.Are your volleyball clubs making money?I mean like those European soccer clubs such as real madrid and etc. they do have big fame and popularity around the world.Their tickets and jerseys sell very well.But actually at least now they don't make money.I mean it is kinda pure investment.Of course I admire your companies' passion about volleball.But I am afraid it will be a fad.So ......

There is no income except sponsorhips and some clubs make money from bets but not too much. I havent seen any store that sells volleyball jerseys. Fans that come to games of clubs like FB, GS, BJK and KSK wear football shirts mostly and others wear shirts and jerseys given by clubs or players. Merchandising is not common in volleyball. And tickets are not enough to make money because most clubs have to pay venue rent for using Federation's hall. And also sometimes clubs can get money from transfers.

Quote from StarNight

alde
Lyuba's main position is OH.Coach transfered her for it.So why Kasia is coming to Fener?

Those stats show Kasia played better season than Lyuba.If you care total points,Skowronska shared points with Costagrande
Kasia 43,8(58 blocked 69 err.) 32 Block points 22 Ace
Lyuba 41,2 (90 blocked 86 err.)28 Block points 18 Ace.

By the way, I dindt see that post. Which coach are you talking about? Mehmet Ali Aydinlar?

Quote from Saybia

alde, I'm not saying that's gotta be all like that. Maybe Sokolova-Nati would play some unimportant league games too. I'm just saying you can tolarete 4 high level players with the rotaion like that, and Sokolova,Nati and Skowronska, for me they're kind of players that they won't mind have some rest during the season..

It's not what they accept or know before they come that matter, it's how they can get adapt for this rotation system with a brand new coach and team. It's not a usual way around volleyball world especially for club teams. So it's a risk for my opinion. I dont know how it ends but Fenerbahce is getting into an uneccesary and expensive adventure doing that even though they have other ways also.

Quote from Saybia

Cause we have Seda as OH too, and in my opinion the rotation will be mostly as Seda-Sokolova or Seda-Nati pairs, Seda's reception is not that well when you comparing with Nati or Sokolova of course, but İn Turkish there are too many weak teams except Eczacıbaşı, Vgstt and Gs, and we wont need that kind of perfect reception when we play against to them. Furthermore, Sokolova and Nati both are old player with children, they wont mind that much and that could be better to rest in some of the games for their shape..

Well how can you suppose them keep their shapes or team work while they are all replacing each other during the season? And as far as I hear Nati is not a kind of player who can accept that role. Maybe Italian friends on the forum may get us more help about it. That's all I can say until full roster is set officially.

Do you think two of the best players in the world will accept to be a guest star or play randomly during all the season? They cannot even be a bench player. It's very hard to make them accept and that's the main reason why Lo Bianco doesnt want to join this roster.

And Seda is not a real OH. She messes up easily if opponent targets her on service. Fenerbahce cannot tolarate her even against a team like Beylikduzu without replacing second libero or Blom. If Fenerbahce wants to keep her on the court regularly in tough games like VGS, GS or Eczacibasi they must play with Nati and Sokolova. Kasia cant get setter, libero or MB problem any good but Sokolova or Nati can because one foreign (mb, setter or libero) can get a place for Kasia. You can replace Kasia with options on the hand but Çiğdem or Ipek cant be compared to Poljak or any other top-class mb for example.

Anyway we are all talking about for nothing actually because the rest of the roster is unknown now.

And Starnight I am a Fener fan but I am not watching Fenerbahce or other teams' games with a fanatical mind that keeps me out logic. It doesnt matter for me who wants to see which player on the court. I am just looking at team's benefit overall. You are mistaking me for others or yourself. Maybe you are the one that needs to wake up, so keep your tips for yourself before deciding who is sleeping or not.

Quote from StarNight

Dont agree with you.Sokolova cannot replace her coz she cannot play good as opposite.Kasia is much better than Seda right now(Experienced and good shape) She isnt candidate to sit on tribune.

http://62.149.234.65/Statistic…009&AnnoFine=2009&Ruolo=5

And this is the last season stats of both players in Serie A. In addition Fenerbahce can use Sokolova more than one position. How can you say Sokolova cant replace Kasia?

Quote from jaco

Ok, thanks for the info, and how many teams counts Turkish league? Could you give any official site of it as I have problem with opening what I found
I rather meant that Serie A level can go lower in following season. Lack of Costagrande will make Scavo quite average team, Foppa can be still strong if LoBianco and Picci stay. Asystel can be stronger if Kirillova leaves however without Logan Tom(if leaves) it will be hard to achieve good result. Just Villa Cortese can be still very strong. Sokolova is also leaving Serie A.

There are 12 teams. I dont know any offical site that will give you more information in English or Turkish. Yes Serie A might lose its consistency but the players who may come to Turkey will be kept in three maybe four teams. It doesnt make the league more quality overall because the rest will not get the same level.

Quote from StarNight

Dont agree with you.Sokolova cannot replace her coz she cannot play good as opposite.Kasia is much better than Seda right now(Experienced and good shape) She isnt candidate to sit on tribune.

So who will be? Who will get cut mostly? The team's real problem and priority are not OPP, it's MB, setter and OH even a libero. So if you had three OPP options who can tolarate each other what would you do when you consider the team needs other players much more?

Quote from jaco

Of course I think she will be playing in the most important
matches (like champions league or top matches in the Turk league). And
I don't really think that level of Turkish league will be much lower
now than in Italy (of course if all rumours and transfer news are fully
confirmed).

You are totally wrong about Turkish League level. You cannot compare it to Serie A under these conditions. Only three teams can have qualications to challange Italian teams on top level. Galatasaray might also maybe near to this level if they will make some big transfers but the rest is like high school teams when it comes to compare them to Italians. The league has quality teams and big names but it's so unbalanced overall. For example, last season all series in Turkish play-offs ended without reaching extra games. 17 games played during the play-offs and only three games were five sets and one was four sets. The rest ended 3-0. Even the final series were not extended to extra game. Fenerbahce had no lost during regular season and play-offs. The team lost just 6 sets in 30 games. We can already say the final of the next season will be most likely between Fenerbahce and Eczaci unless a big surprise wont happen. Even at best the next season Vakifbank and Galatasaray can challange this couple but they are not enough to eliminate them in a play-off series. I doubt Fenerbahce and Eczaci will lose even one set against the other teams except Galatasraay and Vakifbank. These four teams have big budgets. The money they pay for only one player almost equals to other teams' total budgets even maybe more. And the money is not enough. For example, Galatasaray will have big budget but they have not much options because all the quality Turkish players were already taken by the big three and the money is not a problem for this triad. So we cannot say Turkish league is a big challenge.

As for Kasia. If we consider current squad of Fenerbahce and they are gonnal get a top-class MB or setter or both (because they need them much more than an OPP), Kasia will be most likely the first candidate to sit on the stands in most local games because Sokolova and Seda have capabilites to replace her. So yes you are right on one point, she will get many chances to rest.

Well it's not my business to get involved with your discussion but Barcelona has also handball and hockey teams which Fenerbahce doesnt for example. I dont know how you get into this point on volleyball transfer topic but every club has its own way. You cannot tell or blame any sport club to increase their investments on other sports also. Having many teams on other sports doesnt make Fenerbahce more popular than LA Lakers for example. And people dont have to respect to Fenerbahce or any other multi-sport clubs because of they care and support other sports.

As for Fenerbahce Acibadem. Fenerbahce has started to invest on women volleyball with well-planned organization five years ago when the team was in second division. Then they won the first championship title in 2009 with a small budget team which had non-first class players compared to their opponents (VGS, Eczaci, Telekom) after three final failures. This success leads the club more investment last year. The budget raised double and in the end the team has collected all the local titles plus silver medal in IECL. Untill this year I was very satisfied the club's volleyball policy but they are on wrong way nowadays.

Acibadem mistakes sponsorhip for team management therefore the boss acts like a volleyball coach. But as far as I can remember he said he has nothing to do with volleyball and never seen any volleyball game before this sponsorship. We all know now that Gamova was not a choice of the coach last year. She was mostly intended to take the notice of media with her popularity so she signed without knowledge of stuff. This unexpected move caused the coach to change the system he has planned before and a very promising young player Seda to lose her real position and Fenerbahce to become an unbalanced team. Despite of problems on team structure it was a good season for the team thanks to its roster's quality. Now Fenerbahce needs to fix its weak points to reach its goals but not in that way. Volleyball is not basketball. Game vision, rules, playing style, variations, team spirit etc. are completely different. You cannot make a regular rotation between the top quality players like Kasia, Nati, Sokolova etc and Turkish players. You cannot set two different teams to use one for IECL and other for local tournaments. I havent seen or heard any women volleyball team which is set on that way. If I am wrong please get me correct. So it doesnt seem a reasonable way spending big money for well-known names just for using them in only a few crucial games all the season. The game schedule is not an excuse for that. All the big teams in Europe have similiar schedule but they dont try to get all the top class players in one roster because they know it's useless and nothing less than spending money on the air even if they have enough budgets. Players will get many chances to rest enough along the season. Fenerbahce has not a difficult game schedule as much as the club management thinks. Have a look at the opponents. Do you really need to get such an all-star roster to beat most of the teams in Europe and Turkey while you have already a very good team? It's not the way it works. So I guess it's why Lo Bianco choices to stay in Bergamo. My guess is if the rumors will come true, Fenerbahce's transfer policy will lead the team not into a regular system but chaos. They will probably need to rebuild the team next year. That's what I think.

Quote from mateo

Skowronska i one of the best Spiker in Europe she had the second highest % in attack among all wing spikers in Italian league this year(she was first last year)

Dont mind him. Most Fenerbahce fans are obsessed with Gamova. There is no way to convince them that many top quality spikers like Gamova exist in the world.

Quote from firebrands

what?gets 8 million dollars?
if Galatasaray gets 8 million dollars...why buy Ivana Djerisilo? it should send offer to costagrande..mammadova..leto..glinka ..gomova ..and get furst poljak walewska gioli...

It's not 8 million dollars he is misinformed. Only 2 million dollars will be spent for volleyball team. Maybe 3.

Quote from Aerthur_Bergamo

I think Fenerbahçe isn't thinking abou the group. It's easy make a strong team with all the money they have, but the players need mesh, need play together during a time, not only in the CL!

| desire much sucess for the club, but think before signing with everybody.

You are absolutely right Fenerbahce is taking too much risk setting such a roster. It's a big question how these players will have enough time to play together on the court. Fenerbahce management think the team needs regular rotation but for me they mistake volleyball for basketball. They say the team will have a hard game schedule and players need resting but Italian teams dont make such a rotation like setting two different teams although they have much harder game schedule. And I wonder how these top quality players will keep their shapes and team work without playing in many games during the season. Fenerbahce have already paid 1,5 million dollars for local players like Seda, Eda, Naz to break their contracts with their former clubs but now they will be backup for IECL. I guess Lo Bianco has a contract and Fenerbahce have to pay more money to break her contract again and then they will use her only 15-20 games. So what is the point to continue spending huge money? It's so stupid transfer policy. They miss a curicial point setting this roster: the balance between the players and inside the team. Moreover Fenerbahce is the finalist of last IECLso the team doesnt need such a big reconstruction. The money doesnt always secure the success. I guess Fenerbahce will learn it this season.

Fenerbahce's transfer policy doesnt make any sense. The president must be thinking he is playing CM but this is real world. There is no need to become an oracle to say that the idea of two different teams for Europe and local title will mostly lead the team to an epic fail in both.