This is completely incomparable situation, because Italian system is very diversified - and there are both in male and female volleyball dozen clubs with respectable junior programs who can produce NT-level players. Also, most of Italian clubs are located in not necessarily the biggest cities - so it's a bit odd to compare club operating in Istanbul to Conegliano, lol, to say the least. In male volleyball, I have a comparison between Polish and Italian leagues - and Italian top clubs are on average more inclined to invest in the youth programs, and we've won last 4 world championships in male volleyball, so it's a valid comp. I'm pretty sure the same can be said in the female field.
Posts by Realista
-
-
The new libero is the only question mark... mostly because it will be his first full time season as starter on a top team.
It's not given Loreti will be the first choice though, Gaggini is solid in general and was a starter for Monza when they reached a final 2 years ago. Loreti was completely wasted as a backup of Pace in Piacenza, and when Boninfante played him as a starter in CEV Cup - he was pretty great throughout the event, I remember when Piacenza played against Jastrzębski, he was pretty much on par with Maks Granieczny, and he's like the most talented Polish libero who has already played in the VNL.
Anyways, I don't think any of them will be worse than Colaci tbh.
I am honestly more concerned about Perugia and Warta coming to F4 tired, while Ziraat will have its golden trio fully rested...
I'm not concerned about Perugia, they played 11 games or so in the last 9 weeks basically, and they'll have a 10 day break prior to the Final Four. Hard to imagine a better schedule in terms of a rhythm and rest. It would be much more problematic if the series against Civitanova had extended, but that wasn't the case. Especially when you compare that to Warszawa, who lost Bednorz due to injury, and Zawiercie that has to prepare for the 5th finals game on Sunday. They look so exhausted already, so I agree about Ziraat, they should be favorites in the 2nd semifinal.
-
SAme here! I thought merging cev and challenge cup was one of the promises of new cev president . Of course nothing has been done since he is in power😒
From what I know, there are talks about both of these changes (two Euro-Cups and different CL format) ongoing. But like I always mention, the CEV president and Board of Administration (or whatever its name is) are selected mostly by smaller federations, so e.g. any idea for elitist CL formula are unfortunately unrealistic from political standpoint.
That being said, there are several minor changes that should be easy to introduce. For example, I like the concept in football of Europa League (CEV Cup equivalent) winner playing in the CL the next year, and I have no problems with such concept in volleyball as well. League phase in CL instead of group stage - even with let's say two additional legs - would be clearly much more interesting than what we've been receiving in the last 25 years or so. Combining CEV and Challenge Cups with broader group of clubs represented so far in both these events now - is also a logical choice.
-
I hope I didn't give the impression of labelling them as mediocre. These are all good moves, but I would've done them a bit more gradually. The team will surely be very competitive, but I fear they may suffer the same rollercoaster Lube is having since they rejuvenated the roster. Hence, I'm not sure they'll be as dominant as they've been this season.
Naah, I get your reasoning. They still have Giannelli, Semeniuk, Loser, Plotnitskiy among the experienced guys though, and Lorenzetti has always been known as a great fit to work with young players. But I agree with your overall sentiment - also because of a fact that I expect top teams (Trentino and Civitanova mainly) to be stronger than this season. Especially considering Trentino had awful season after all the injuries, Verona was out of shape for the playoffs, and Piacenza played the semifinals without Mandiraci, also, Modena played with injured Buchegger in the quarterfinal - I don't think this year's level of Superlega was actually that high. No disrespect to Perugia, easily the best team in Italy, but let's say Zawiercie easily crushed Civitanova in the Champions League - and they'll play a 5th game of the finals in PlusLiga, so it's not guaranteed that they'll win a title in Poland.
-
In fact, I'm not too sold on the team they're building for next season. Don't get me wrong, they will be competitive, but I don't think they will be near to this one.
I love all the transfers they've made actually, haha:
- Loreti IMHO is a real deal as a talent, he was great in CEV Cup games this year for Piacenza as a starter, and was awesome for Italy U20 team last summer at the WCH, so it would be hard to find a local replacement better than him for Colaci, especially from long-term perspective,
- Henno had a very good year in PlusLiga and with all the absences, he'll be a starter of France NT alongside Clevenot IMHO, so he may be completely ready to play an important role for Perugia very quickly,
- Reggers is one of the most talented opposites in the world - and while Ben Tara is in general awesome - I think upside-wise Reggers is even better,
- Sanguinetti had a career-best season for Modena - I don't consider him as an improvement over healthy Russo, but oftentimes Russo isn't healthy.
So considering Ishikawa was a non-factor for almost the full season, and Colaci has been mid for like 5 years straight and was a starter due to his position in the locker room and for the fact of being a Perugia legend - I'd actually argue in terms of their roster, they can be even a superior team than they were this season.
-
This format could be perfect for us, but the most of the Italian teams could face serious injury and mental problems. Milano, Scandicci and mostly Novara does not always wins easily against the middle and the weak teams of the Serie. The usually play a lot of competitive matches in their league and a format like that could be a disaster for them.
Milano, Scandicci, Novara and Monza-Milano will anyway advance to the SF of the league, there's like 5-10% threat from Chieri and that would be it. Serie A1 isn't a competitive league like it used to be in the past, if you can't manage your team under these circumstances, it's on you.
Any format increasing the number of games between top teams would be more than welcomed.
-
Yeah, people should chill out with this fake outrage culture in the internet and on social media - Imoco guy said couple of dumb things, and some people got invested in the 'drama' for few days straight about something completely irrelevant at the end of the day, quitting forum and so on. Don't be such snowflakes.
I just wish the whole idea of replacing group stage with football-like league pool phase will materialize soon - if they don't want to expand top league's teams nor include Russian clubs, this is the only solution to the otherwise very boring CL format.
-
What do you guys think about the back2back games format of Final Four? Yesterday it was clearly visible that both teams were tired, especially Eczaci after finishing a 5-setter towards midnight and playing the next day again.
I don’t know why they don’t change it to Friday-Semifinals and Sunday-Finals. In basketball, Euroleague F4 is played like that. That could make a big difference, especially for the team playing the 2nd semifinal.
If I got this right, in the last 20 years - teams playing semifinals later won 9 times, and earlier - 6 times, so I don't think there's any correlation here. 3-3 for the World Championship from what I see?
Going b2b is just less costly for everyone.
-
I see this big5 not only their historical impact particularly to the game results but more like them being above the rest of the players on their positions. Actually that gap was closing by tolok's incredible season this year but her OH adventure next season, it's not gonna happen anymore.
There aren't many good setters anymore so the level difference between top 5-6 setters and rest are also getting a bigger gap.
Yeah, big5 is big5 because you can’t win a major trophy without one of the members besides few exceptions. On different positions, there’s no such disparity, you can create a generational team with Orro as a setter, or win the OG with washed Bosetti as a starter.
Re: Antropova and Vargas - I agree and disagree simultaneously. I agree historically they have to make ton of work and accolades to be included in the convo, Egonu basically won every trophy possible as a starter. Level wise, Vargas outplayed Egonu at the WCh or played on par with Bosko at the ECh, so it looks like the same tier in my eyes. Accolades-wise, I don’t think anyone’s gonna catch Egonu though, even Boskovic would need an OG gold medal, so it’s a very circumstantial convo. -
By no means I wanna defend these remarks by the Conegliano dude, there are true things that can be communicated in much better fashion, but oh boy, don’t ever underestimate the rage and overreaction of Brazilian fans on X, this should be like the 1st rule of engagement in volleyball social media.
-
IMHO coaches were the real game changers, because 20 years ago most of the best were all in Italy and you had teams fighting for relegation in Serie A1 with higher level than 90% of the teams playing Champions League.
Guidetti went to VakifBank and it changed the market, because player were willing to go there for both money and career path. Nowdays most of coaches in top teams (both mens and women's are Italians).The first 'wave' of Turkish super transfers was in 2007/2008 period, so prior to Guidetti, you have Aguero or Francia going there without any 'structure'. Getting best players and best coaches is interwoven, sure, but I remember thinking in 2008 that the new era has arrived and that was indeed the case.
They should just get rid of TVF and made their own league to completely kill Serie A1, because at the end of the day they are richer and it wont change.
Best male and female Turkish teams are sponsored by state-owned banks (Vakifbank and Ziraat Bankasi), so good luck with that. This is actually one angle that Italian fans/managers can criticize the rest of Europe for, because this is indeed unfair you have to compete against the teams having sponsorship system outside of the free market scheme from Poland, Russia, or Turkiye.
-
then with all due respect, it is a crime everybody and nobody commits at the same time.
Yeah, the whole discourse is super weird. Italian leagues have become a powerhouse in the 90s and 00s because it was the first 'commercial' volleyball competition with foreigners, sponsors and popularity, so it's dumb to complain that someone else may have more money now. At the same time pretending any top team is at the top not because of money is also silly, especially in female volleyball where only like 4 clubs won major league/CL titles in the last decade. Money isn't enough, but you're nothing without money. And it's not like it differs that much regardless of whether you're a Turkish or Italian club.
Objectively speaking, much more concerning than any of this nonsense is how predictable (female) volleyball has become, but again, it's not like Italian clubs winning all the trophies brought that much of a variation here.
-
Big 5 opposites makes sense, because all these players are so (historically) impactful, on other positions you can e.g. replace Ognjenovic with Bechis and still eliminate top clubs if you're lucky, you wouldn't eliminate Fenerbahce if you put Ruddins in place of Antropova. Top opposites currently have historical impact, and much bigger impact individually than the best male players, their salaries are also bigger than the best males, at least in Europe. So it's quite interesting and unparalleled situation in general in this male-female discussions regarding sport, and worthy of its individual distinction.
On OH position for example, it's like big2, maybe big3 with Fedo, on other positions the level is so close, setting is much less important than in the past when you win major trophies by setting +70% balls to two players or +40% balls to one position like Vakifbank now or Italy at the WCH last season.
-
Waste of money. She will likely be a bench warmer in Turkey. But it is what it is: turkish teams are far richer than the Italians and they even have money to waste.
It must be actually quite funny to run a volleyball club, because vball clubs don't have significant commercial revenue like football organizations, as long as your sponsor is willing to give you the money (and Eczacibasi is pretty consistent in doing so), you can do for fun whatever you want basically.
-
Lubian is so exploited at the net, she's almost always late in blocking, it looks like every cross-court hit by Bosko is a point with Lubian in the 1st line.
-
Was it De Gennaro who make these two reception errors at the end of the 3rd set? That's something uncommon of her.
-
Btw this is the first moment of the season when someone can actually contain Markova with proper serving - defense strategy, impressive gameplan from Santarelli.
-
Zhu is actually the best player for Imoco on court today so far
Zhu being the best all-round performer among all hitters today at least so far is definitely a testimony to her greatness.
-
They look so clumsy to me, Vakifbank is doing nothing and this makes Imoco look better in the stats
Imoco was as mid as hell prior to 8-8 in the 2nd set or whatever the score was, then they found their regular rhythm. But yeah, Vakifbank is awful so far.
-
Flawless set from Conegliano - 1 (!) individual error, and 53% attack rate.
Pretty disappointing game so far tho.