Ofc powsoff but Zhigalov made the diff yday in some key moments. Player that was shadow in previous 6 matches, that's the problem
A shadow of a God I assume? 87% in the first game.
The elefant in the room for Rus, as for me, was Klyuka. By far not the best game for him but Egor did his job well, I.e. he was the only player in the team able to work vs organised block. Zhigalov did score a lot but plenty of those were against a single block.
Kubiak didnt took responsibility tonight as a team captain and a leader.
I'm still shocked how Poles managed to put Zhigalov in a dominant position, officially the worst OPP in DIv 1
Zhigalov is not an equivalent of say Mikhaylov but he's not bad-bad-bad. On a one-off basis, he can deliver a mega-game; I think he scored 35+ points/game once or twice for Kuzbass. If you recall Belgorod playing vs Zaksa in CL this season, you would remember that Max (despite being kill-blocked several times) looked way better than Konarski.
Reading rumours that setter Sergei Grankin leaves Dinamo Msk and heads to apparently Belgorod. Grankin's agent has confirmed the first part of the goss, there's still no confirmation re Belgorod. If we trust the source, Grankin will be swapped for Poroshin. In any case, Dinamo Msk is to become a *very* different team now, as many things were spinning around Grankin in there. His departure may bring troubles but at the same time may open new doors.
Stoychev's Trentino and Alekno's Zenit, both offensively powerful and relatively fragile in reception, surely have tangent points, I completely agree, yet I cannot concur with all points you made. Sure, the Zenit vs. Perugia final reminded of the Trentino vs. Dinamo Moscow back then. If you look at only those two matches or just the stats of those, you would find (only) many similarities indeed. Let me start with the differences then, in my opinion.
First, Zenit HAS to recruit (all) the best Russian players due to the league's foreigners limitation. This directly leads to a significant reduction of the level of local competitiveness. OK, Russia is huge, they still have maybe enough talented players scattered in clubs across the country, but we have seen that in theory Zenit (and maybe Gazprom money) plays a part in making the league boring. Which, we have to agree, wasn't the fact in Italy back in Trentino's golden days. In fact, the league wasn't boring at all, for there were Trentino's black cat Sisley Treviso, Giuliani's Cuneo and even Modena and Macerata - all teams that could win against Stoychev's side. If this is something that we can agree on, then surely Trentino's European reign didn't bring along a guaranteed domestic one. You are absolutely right that no one likes to watch the same winner over and over again but, albeit seemingly boring at times, those team's campaigns stand out and we can be considered fortunate to have witnessed them, as it means these involved super teams indeed. Besides, remember that such runs of successive titles have always existed and were even more disheartening for opponents on national teams level, for instance. I don't really consider them a real plague for volleyball and I surely don't consider Trentino's peak a plague for Italian volleyball in general, as I pointed out above. I am not that sure about Zenit, though...
This is not entirely correct. Zenit does overrecruit local players and there are always talks about them accumulating the talents brought up elsewhere. But I have to say, this occurs episodically. They indeed headhunted plenty of top experienced players in the past (Ball, Tetyukihn etc), which let them win their first CL. Mikhaylov was also one of the big fishes. Then had two NT members on the bench last year, and last year they grabbed Butko and Volvich. But if one looks at their roster for 2016/17 season, there isn't much of depth in there, beyond the starting six. Gutsalyuk, Melnik and Zemchonok are very average players. Take a look at their closest competitors from Moscow - now these guys had a decent roster indeed, and it is them who actually deprived the competition of a decent team, just because they had two equal squads. Antipkin, Biryukov, Ilinykh, Bakun, Volkov - these chaps all played for the NT in the near past. Furthermore, if one checks what Belgorod has in its depth, then surprisingly there would be also an OK squad made of local-ish players. Had Rus league been played without the foreign players this season, Zenit would have struggled for a medal, not more than that.
The real "problem" is not the financial dominance of Kazan - it is about financial troubles in Belgorod and Novosibirsk and a clear lack of planning in Moscow. Well, the latter partially applies to Belgorod too: note how badly they were trashed by (a nominally weaker) Novosibirsk side in the bronze match, just because Lokomotiv had a reasonable coach and a reasonable idea of what they want to achieve. You see, the trouble is we're discussing the dominance of Zenit, whilst the opposition to Zenit is frequently doing things unrelated to competitive volleyball, e.g. bringing in an incapable President's son-in-law for a couple of sets or employing absolutely random people in the coaching process. Alekno's son was indeed present among the rest in the champion's squad but for some reason noone let him lead the final/semifinal game. Planning-wise, Zenit is not ideal overall as there were blunders like e.g. Toniutti. But their direct competitors from Moscow and Belgorod are by far worse in this field. Do recall Ivan Zaytsevelli who's been pushing the ball-basket in Moscow for a couple of years whilst being paid very well. Take a look at Belgorod recruiting strategy. They need a replacement for ageing Khtey - Marco Ivovic is recruited. He's not bad at all but he's not a tall receiver/side-outer with a decent block. Belgorod has a setter crisis every season - there will be someone coming or going etc. After that, there is a bunch of weird factors like the unavailability of Panteleymonenko for Belgorod, who seemingly fell out with his bosses in Krasnodar and remained out of squad for a season.
Second, the squad recruitment the set distribution wasn't quite identical for both teams. Kaziyski and Leon are comparable, fully agree. Juantorena and Anderson, who often doesn't play an amazing role when Zenit is in trouble, are not. Butko and Zygadlo aren't comparable either (to Raphael, however, he surely is, from a sports perspective, not technically). Verbov and formerly Salparov bring way more stability in reception than Bari. Zenit's MBs are in general (slightly) less used than Trentino's, Raphael liked to used them a bit more. Vissotto and Mikhaylov may be comparable, but Mihkaylov to Stokr surely not. The list leads to the following point I want to make - Trentino appeared to have some weaker elements overall, but seemed to play with more diversity and still dominate. The other big difference was that you weren't always sure (it wasn't always only Kaziyski or Juantorena) who will get the important set when times got tough, whereas Butko would trust only Leon then.
This is all debatable. Mikhaylov in 2016/17 looks better that Stokr or Vissotto in their best seasons, Mikhaylov a year ago looked worse. Trento had more experienced MBs and Rafael was technically by far more gifted than Butko. Zygadlo is definitely better than the wooden Igor Kobzar. Regarding total dominance in the home league - do check when and by how much Trento won the regular seasons and compare this to the record of Zenit. In the end, as you have correctly admitted, Trento was in a position to sign essentially anyone which made them a real around-the-world team. Zenit has only two spots. Leon is once again the most spectacular player but do check who scored the important winning points this season. Btw, statistically, Mikhaylov is way ahead of Leon in 2016/17 too.
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Last, yeah, maybe Cruzeiro nowadays is better than Cruzeiro from 5-6 years ago, but they still had the main core of players. And Trentino got them nevertheless. I am not quite sure that the old Trentino wouldn't have been able to handle them nowadays, but it will remain a discussion topic
You can check the records, there were certainly years when the best South-American team didn't pass the semi-final mark. Trento faced them once in the final in Doha back in 2012 - but there's been very palpable changes since then for both teams.
Dynamo is classic definition of "wasting money team", 10-12 mil. € team
They are one of those projects that fails to learn on its own mistakes. The other one is Belgorod. The reason I think is that both "students" have way too easy access to $$$: I just don't think that Zenit spends on wages more than Dinamo Msk who had two fully functional squads packed with experienced champions this season. The only piece of excuse for this disaster is a poor shape of Denis Biryukov.
Lifting Alekno for the Hurray took them more effort than the whole
seasonmatch.
But seriously: Big congrats, what a great team they are
Last time they did this trick, they somehow pulled Alekno's tracksuit bottoms off revealing pink underwear. This time he was complaining about his poor back.
http://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/190407
Last club on this list is St.Petersburg, Dynamo Krasnodar is missing
I'm almost sure it's a done deal
Dinamo Krasnodar is very much present in the table and they have registered for next season. Which means that a new superambitious project from St Petersburg is going to cost slightly more to the generous money-launderer sponsor. Another option is of course to marry up with another Dinamo, Dinamo LO. It is pretty clear that there can be only one OK team in St Petersburg and the neighborhood so if the newcomer manages to jump straight into the Superleague as an independent outfit, the poor Dinamo LO would automatically drift towards the relegation.
Display MoreLet me first say that I am very happy to have watched the Final Four in Rome and Zenit Kazan live. The Russians actually for the third Final Four in a row
I am mostly delighted to have watched Alexander Butko (I am a setter and have always like setters) and Wilfredo Leon, a spectacular athlete, live. No matter if we like it or not, Zenit has gone through their own CL era and it is well-deserved as they have been the best in Europe for a while. A fun fact, Salparov said last year before winning the title in Krakow that some practices in Kazan are more difficult than actual games.
Well, I also believed that Lube, as the only team that managed to stay in form throughout the second part of the season, unlike ZAKSA, would have finally been able to live up to expectations after a series of years of some disappointments, partial or complete. Winning the Italian league is a good step for them finally, but a lot of people expected them to challenge Zenit. Me too, of course, I travelled to Rome with the intention to watch that final and got disappointed both by Lube's day off in the semis and by (the lack of) Perugia in the final.
Now, I remember a discussion with powsoff after the F4 in Krakow last year who accused me of feeling for Stoychev's Trentino more than for Zenit, probably relating to the Bulgarian connection with the head coach. Well, I am not a fan of either of these teams, yet I can say the same again this year. Even if both Trentino and Zenit wrote golden pages in the history of the Champions League and the European volleyball, watching the two teams makes me feel Trentino's game and team were slightly superior. You can barely find a weak spot in either team, but I like team effort more than I like individual class and I see Trentino more like a team in comparison to
LeonZenit Kazan. Besides, Trentino was the ruler of the world back then, beating a more or less similar Cruzeiro side, whereas Zenit can't quite get there yet. Probably just a matter of personal preference in the end
Last, I wanted to say a few words about Butko, a setter I really like. In my opinion, this may have been his best season. Not because of the trophies (he won such with Lokomotiv Novosibirsk, too) or the impressive unbeaten run with Zenit, but maybe because of his role. I don't remember him serve that well and score decisive aces in so many important matches. Unlike the previous CL campaign when Kobzar used to come in way more often and even saved Zenit in Krakow, Butko just didn't belong to the bench this year.
Let me try to remain a bit neutral: both Stoychev's Trentino and Alekno's Zenit are a plague for volleyball, in sense that the lack of rivalry makes the whole competition boring. I wrote it earlier and will write it again, it is a disaster when the same team wins the CL three times in a row, independently of whether you support the team or not, as this devalues the competition. From any other perspectives, Zenit and Stoychev's Trento are practically equivalent, and in many ways very similar in their style. Two OHs with an enormous reach and a star opposite. They may not receive very well but nevertheless will score at 56%+ whatever you do. One may be super-impressed by Leon, his action is spectacular indeed - but statistically, how much different is he from Kaziyski back in 2010? I would even say, the overall scenario of the 2010 final does vastly resemble what happened this year, with poor Perugia scoring one point less than poor Dinamo Msk back in 2010. My argument is that Trento, very much like Kazan these days, was not a team of hard-working average players led by a super-smart strategist. Both teams were/are absolutely packed with megastars. Kaziyski, Juantorena and say Vissotto were very much capable of carrying an OK team on their shoulders all alone and, brought together, they naturally became more efficient. Team effort? That would be found in Zenit-2012 that beat Trento in the semis, with Sivo-Bereg in the starting line-up. As for the triumph of Cruzeiro and the lack of that vs Trento back in early 2010s, the answer is Cruzeiro itself, which is a much stronger team these days.
I think you're right about Butko. Playing for Zenit was a challenge for him and did the motivating job well. This was a very good year for Mikhaylov (possibly thanks to Butko) and Gutsalyuk (who started serving a better serve). Btw, Butko has always been a very stable spike server and a decent opp(!). He started accelerating the serving efforts back in 2015, during the World Cup. Last year, he had some health problems so couldn't play his best immediately, I assume.
Zenit is trashing Belgorod...
I don't think so. Did you notice some usual "unusual" choices for the starting line-up in Belgorod? The coaching brigade decided to recreate the success of the CL leg in Kazan and brought no opposite on the court, assuming that three OHs will cement the defense, just as it happened in that game in Kazan. Kosarev&Co made a topical sub though: instead of Podlesnykh (who is bound to leave the club for Kuzbass) they have chosen Taras Khtey (the son-in-law of Shipulin, the boss of Belogorie). The semi-disabled Khtey has been walking in his slow pace across the court for the first two sets, scoring effectively nothing and contributing nothing in defense too. It took a couple of lost sets for the Belgorod analysts to discover that something wasn't going well so they started sporadically making changes - which worked OKish up to the 14th point in the set 3. I can believe that a sheer clinical idiocy of a coach can turn a decent team into a bunch of decent clowns. What I can't believe is that someone is actually paying his money to support a show like that. I suggest to make Muserskiy play libero next time, and Obmochaev can go into the middle.
Wrong thread, no one cares about posting a schedule...... Whats up, guys? Anarchy?
Entschuldigung - I suggest we leave this as is and formally justify the decision by saying that the F6 will define the configuration of the 2017/18 season. For that, I will brush my teeth tonight and wear shorts + socks and sandals to work tomorrow :).
I get disappointed when teams manage to put Zenit under pressure but fail to finish the job. It doesn't happen often for Zenit to appear off-guard and those chances should be utilized. What is even more impressive than the hard-fought result is that Lokomotiv did so without their main opposite Pavlov, Plamen Konstantinov's favourite. Bannov and Tarasov replaced him, Tarasov with more success. Is Pavlov alright? Now I am afraid that Zenit might not even drop a set in the remaining two matches.
Pavlov has pulled his abdomen muscle, can be out for the rest of the F6. Definitely, Zenit has given Novosibirsk a chance by coming to the game in a very relaxed state (which did happen before, I recall how they de facto lost the best of five series to Yaroslavich back in 2011.) I think that Konstantinov could have done better in set 3 to keep his team focused on the game but who knows, he may keep some secret tricks for the future?
Dinamo looked quite committed to the rivalry, based on their performance vs Belgorod. Bizarrely, they played a superb defensive game, with Antipkin-Kruglov duo in the starting line-up, something that was completely absent in their games vs Berlin and Zaksa. But what Dinamo played today vs Fakel prompts that Zenit may have an easy walk in the two remaining games - although today it was mostly with Grankin and Bakun. I have to give a credit to Fakel and Placi/Nikolov: they were almost there. Well, they should have been very much there - but that idiotic decision by the ref deprived them of a deservedly won set vs Belgorod. I think Nikolov should register as a player, just in case as Fakel needs an opp with a cold head sometimes :).
By far the most interesting game of the season so far: Zenit beat Lokomotiv Novosibirsk 19:17 on the tie-breaker. Novosibirsk had a match-ball.
OK, someone injected a goss yesterday that Grozer Grozerov is moving to Dinamo Msk in place of Bakun who in turn goes to Belgorod. Belgorod is losing a libero Martynyuk who moves to Novosibirsk. Rodichev from Ugra apparently joins him there. There's still blah-blah that Novosibirsk is after Grozerov too but something tells me Moscow can win the fight. I wonder - if this business is true of course - if Grozerov will follow the ball-basket-pushing career a-la Zaytsev in Moscow or he will be able to regain his old shape and keep Kruglov on the bench. Dinamo is also most likely kicking out Biryukov and Ilinykh.
Display MoreNo no, the true reason of course is that he doesn't like Wurst, Bier and marching music......
I told you already that there were off court issues during his whole stint at Berlin. Lets not forget that last year, he was almost fired after CEV Cup defeat in Finland and some disappointing performances in the league. But as i said, they got their act together and had a pretty good turnaround.
Imho, he doesn't have a great authority with the players. You can almost see this during time outs and on substitutions. Also, this year, performances in the league were rather mediocre. Tonight they might end the season with 0-6 against Friedrichshafen. We might not even talk about an improved Berlin if they went out against Istanbul.... Considering all this, there are surely reasons for not extending the contract despite his evident successes.
And talking about Serniotti's successes i would appreciate if Niroomand would just shut up for a while and end the season with a bit of dignity. It would be truly fun, if Berlin still beats Friedrichshafen twice
This reminds me of a bizarre situation back in 2008, with what is known now as Zenit Kazan. They (narrowly) won the CL and... then the management kicked out the "difficult" head coach (Viktor Sidelnikov) in favour of a young promising Alekno. It then took three attempts (and quite a bit of $$$) for the prodigy specialist to qualify for the F4. Serniotti is an atypical Italian I must say, must be from the North of the country.
Just found out- holy smokes WHAT A COUP BY YENISEY; a relatively mediocre club who I dont believe will even play in Europe next year. Really not much else in the team other than Spiridonov, maybe they will add more players this summer. Either way, very surprising move, the money must have been amazing to convince Rouzier.
Sensational indeed. An overweight, ageing and not particularly tall journeyman opposite has moved from the eighth team in Turkish league to the tenth team in Russian league. I understand well why Yenisey would need a serious opp but feel very skeptical as for whether Rouzier would be a starter, he's not better than what they have at the moment. Boskovic would have been a better choice. Seriously speaking, had Yenisey wanted to recruit an opp from the Tur league, the top choices would have been Nilsson and Sanchez.
-Also, Russian league getting stronger and stronger. If rumours are true about new Zenit Saint Petersburg team next season, the Russian League should be very competitive next season, solidiying itself as second best Mens League after Italian SuperLega.
Who knows - maybe next season Rus teams could also do slightly better against Italian monsters of block in the Champions League? Looks boring otherwise as Zaytsevelli, Juantorelli and Sokolovelli keep destroying everyone on the way to their numerous titles.
Even though current season isn't over yet there are some big news regarding the next one. According to sport bussines gazeta there will be a new club in Superleague. Gazprom will create club in St.Peterburg under name Zenit and should continue tradition of Motorist St.Petersbug, the first Russian champion. They will buy place in Superleague from Dynamo Krasnodar because they are going to keep only women team. There are several strong names linked to Zenit St.Petersburg like Oreol Camejo but so far there isn't any official transfer.
It's known NOVA left Novokuybyishevsk and went to Samara but that won't be only change as club will change name. In season 2017/2018 they'll perform as Kryl'ya Sovetov or Novaya Samara
This is till a gossip, no official confirmation. I read that there is going to be some influx from Zenit (Kobzar, Sivo) into the New-Zenit.
Zenit Kazan's Aleksandr Gutsalyuk is the first player to win 5 CEV Champions League titles
Whoever wants to win the CL should focus on signing Gutsalyuk then: the guy just brings luck even by warming up the bench. He's just like a pair of lucky pants or socks.
Couldn't watch the matches yesterday but big congrats to Kazan of course.
So It looks like their semi against Berlin was the true final
The "true" final was the home leg vs Belgorod when Kazan has clearly lost their plot and looked wobbly. Leon was benched in the middle of the set, Mikhaylov had eight attacks in a row... not blocked but defended - things looked as if a bad day was approaching for Alekno but then the Gods of Volleyball sent him their help.
Where I agree is that Berlin was totally capable of eliminating the Seria B squad that got into the final thanks to the selectively functional replay system. I do not think they had much chance vs Zenit though; I would even say Dinamo Msk (eliminated by Berlin) would've been a tougher opponent for Kazan. In the domestic champ, they played three very close sets, one of which was won by Dinamo and the other two by Zenit via an ace serve, on the balance.
After having watched a TV report on Berlin's CL weekend, it is pretty obvious now, that Serniotti will leave Berlin after this season. He was heavily criticised for some subs by manager Niroomand within and after the match against Kazan. There is not much love anymore in this relationship.....
source: http://mediathek.rbb-online.de…97422&documentId=42517482 (german ip required)
OMG, the management must be completely nuts as a donkey can see that Berlin has improved under Serniotti substantially. Not talking abt the CEV Cup, which does count of course, despite being a matter of luck, but being able to qualify for F4 via the KO stages is worth ten bronze medals wone at the home final. They are a very different team defensively. I bet the reason is his imperfeKKKt English: incorrect use of present perfect, messed up articles etc.
So Bakun or Kruglov r leaving, probably Bakun if you ask me
maybe Kuzbass
Grozer isn't cheap, as little bird told me Gyorgy had over 500 000 in China...
Umm... there is also a goss that St Petersburg is going to "organise" a team in the top league next year, different from Dinamo LO and kind of referring to the traditions of Avtomobilist. Apparently, there is a desire to spend some $$$ that can match that of Dinamo Msk.
