Why women's volleyball seem more popular than men's in the here

And somebody always thinks volleyball is girl’s sport,not boy's.In China boys think it‘s so spectators to play it,they just play basketball and football.they think it would make them so "cool"

No idea, but it totally depends. For me men's volleyball is more interesting. First I agree that I watch volleyball for the game, not for the eye candy. If I want eye candy I will watch movies and pictures. Not to mention that being woman I find actually male players sexy enough and definitely sexier than female players. I'm sorry, but I have different idea of sexy women - check out rhythmic gymnastics and you will see women with female gentle features. Most volleyball female players don't fit that much in this category for me (personal preference of course).

I actually find the women volleyball with lots of ups and downs because in general women have a bit weaker mentality than men. However I watch sports also for mental strength so I prefer men's volleyball.

And I disagree that in men's volleyball all is power. There is tactics, strategy and technique enough.

My impression is that most countries are either good in men's volleyball or women's volleyball aside Brazil, Russia and USA. For example in our country men's volleyball is definitely more popular than women. At least I have this impression. So it depends on the country. If here (in Bulgaria) men's volleyball is more successful than women's and it's shown more on TV it will be more popular. If in some other country women's volleyball team is more successful this will be more popular.

Then there is the fact that in general men are not the ones to post lengthy posts in forums. And since mostly men watch men's volleyball (not that there are no women that watch, it's just I have the impression that most posters here that watch men's volleyball are men) they don't post that much. That's why it looks like women's volleyball is more popular.

Lengthy, but, a good post, your opinions, Secretk. But, your this part

Quote from secretk

I actually find the women volleyball with lots of ups and downs because in general women have a bit weaker mentality than men. .

is totally false. I am old enough and know this in the life well, in general, women are mentally more stronger than men, quite contrary to cliche beliefs like yours. Mentally, women are stronger, physically, men are. So simple.

Voleybol is more feminine because our macho men world needs to physical body contacts, fauls, etc. Even in supporters. No wonder why holigans are mostly males. Female world have been searching a team sport with no physical power body contacts and they found this sport some decades ago and this is why volleyball has become popular among females. Even when they are little girls, they play such games with ball similar to volleyball. Voleyball might be invented a century ago, but, actually, it is not an invention, just a modification of some games girls were playing for centuries. Their all games were similar to volleyball. Our monopoly character of men in everythings has caused their this sport of females been occupied by men too. But, from aesthetic point of view, this sport is really girly sport.

We will have to agree to disagree. It depends on how you see mental strength. Here is what I meant.

Women in most cases base their decisions on emotions, men on logic. Sport in general generates adrenalin and emotions. For this reason if the game starts good for female team they are strong, otherwise not so much. Hence the big difference in the end results in a set. In men you have close results in the sets more often which I prefer to be honest because for me that's more dynamic and more interesting. Men in most cases are not out of the set because they got blocked twice in a roll. They manage to overcome this in 5/10 minutes (when you have male player that is unable to do this you notice it very quickly). Women need more time. Here is simple example - woman will buy pink laptop because it's cute. Man will buy laptop because it has certain features. It happens in lots of cases. It also happens in volleyball and other sports.

Good point about men and contact sports.

Partially, agree. For example, you are right about "a good start" in a set will help a woman team continue to perform better. But, this is about self-confidence rather than emotion. Also, trainers have not given much importance to tactics in women volleyball. Guidetti has changed this a little. Last week, I listened an interview of a Vakif player who told that they have been training a lot about "coming back", their B-team starting from 10 pts vs 0 and A-team is coming back from this to win the game. And, this has been successfull training and we have seen many "come back" by Vakif in last 2 years. So, this has nothing to do with gender difference, just about self-confidence.

Quote from secretk

Women in most cases base their decisions on emotions, men on logic. Sport in general generates adrenalin and emotions.

As you said here above, sports are more about emotions, especially, in such non-contact sports. So, since women are more emotional as you said, then, they have more potential to be better in this sport volleyball, don't they? Otherwise, there will be contradiction with your own opinions. Voleyball is more about emotions than physical power. However, without realizing, you too may be confusing things by comparing two different genders. Compare things in the same gender.

By the way, generalizing logic and emotion may not be so meaningful in sports. In real life, yes, men are more logical or, better to say, more utilitarians, but, this is fun, entertainment sport where logic, utilitarianship is secondary.

That's true, but the games I watch in women's volleyball are quite often one sided. The team that starts good is good, the team that starts bad is bad (if it's not the whole game, it's the set). Quite frankly for me this is boring. I want to watch an even game, playing point by point. Not to say that emotional crush doesn't happen in men's volleyball, but once it happens everyone is discussing it and is frustrated with this. In women's volleyball the reaction is different. Also adrenaline + testosterone results in aggression in the sport (hence powerful spikes), adrenaline + estrogen has different result. Plus I love the power.

I love tactics in sport. I'm athletically challenged person , but I'm mathematician. I watch sports for tactics and strategy. I don't watch it for single good actions, I watch it for the whole team having strategy to play. Logic for me is far more helpful in tactics than emotions. Emotions could help you contain self confidence which is yes important, but logic can help you grasp the tactics and to do the mind power game. For me it's all connected.

This is still my opinion though and personal preference. We all like different things.

Quote from aXeLbEn12

same here

On the contrary I find the male volleyball much more athletic while female is too soft for my taste.

Secretk,

I have no words about your preferences (liking men volley more than women volley.)
My words are more about its character of volleyball, whether it is more female sport or male sport.

I too am a mathematican, also physicist, a theoretican in both as well. But, I am not good at biolog & chemistry, so, I am foreigner to terms you are using.
I am watching volley for different reasons.

Since you often use "logic" in your arguments to support your claim "men use logic while women use emotions, hence, better strategy by men in the games", I need to say somethings more about this though this is a thing also in biology which I am not so good at.. Logic is a thing related to the brain. According to a theory, brain is most non-linear system on the earth,.. AND.. woman brain have higher nonlinearity than man brain.. means women brain is more complex.. so, woman logic is deeper than man logic. We can call this deeper logic of women as more chaotic, but, they are more stable in the life (just an example, women know life realities better, for ex, they value the money better than guys.) (If your darling girl says to you, by critizising, "hey, you are more logic, lets do that.", she is really saying this? No. She is using a tactic, blowing your mind, so that she can get you to her way.. So, their logic is so powerfull that they can even control emotions. (for ex, you know, they can easily drop eye tears.and many of them can do this in a controlled way.)

Anyway, these are my words about the logic. Not to be trapped by them by belittleing them and by blowing our own egos, instead of the term "logic", perhaps, better term is "utilitarianship" character of men and this is agreed also by women. As you gave in your laptop example, man looks at its utilitarian property more while woman looks at its aesthetics more.

Aesthetics should not be confused with the beauty which is a subjective thing. Aesthetic is more like a sensitive, soft, art thing. Best example I can give to aesthetics is Saori Kimura. Is she beatiful? Depends on the person, beauty is in the eyes of beholder, subjective. But, watch her movements and finger touches to the ball. This is aesthetic. She is good at volleyball not due to her power in her arms, but, due to her aesthetic, from receiving to passing to smart tips, a good logic (as you call) player there in Saori. On the other hand, lets look at this part of the world, particularly, Eastern European female players. They are trained for more physical powers, like men, therefore, less aesthetics. (maybe, this that their being trained physically more powerful of women players is why we see more lesbian relations in the west part of the world.)

That's true the brain usually has more complex path in women than men, but you don't have time in sport to process things. It's all about action in the moment there. What you say about women is what helps them to live longer than men. In sports it's all in the moment, so for me it's important who grasps the logic faster and works in simplistic way than who has more complex logic in general. And who thrives in logic and tactics. You said it yourself in women's volleyball they are now introducing the tactics. Men actually prefer to go in tactics. Yes they are all powerful which is why only power doesn't help. Physical strength is something that nowadays almost all male volleyball players have, so it's not enough. They have to rely on something more. That's the reason for tactics in men's volleyball because without this a win of the team would be pure luck and that happens once or twice, but it's not consistent.

Women can be quite manipulative, but since volleyball is not a contact sport having good acting skills doesn't help that much. Not like in soccer (football) where good diving skills could earn you penalty. And the example you gave still shows that women use emotions. Using logic means to be motivated by logic. How you try to present your actions and earn your point is something else. And yes it's pragmatism also, but it also shows that there is no emotion. You don't care about how things look and how they fit in the background (even though this is logic itself) you care what you get out of this and which has the better features.

Either way this is out of the scope in this discussion. I said why I think that it looks like women volleyball is more popular here. There are a lot of factors like I said. I'm not sure that overall in the world women's volleyball is more popular than men's volleyball. I think that they are overall even. The rest is personal preferences.

My opinion is that women and men's volleyball represent different ideas and have different styles. I wouldn't say that volleyball is women sport, because men's sport actually uses the male players' strength enough. The point there is that physical strength is not enough which is why tactics and strategy is needed. So if someone doesn't like power they would prefer women's volleyball which due to lack of such power relies on other methods. If someone have nothing against power, but want tactics they will watch men's volleyball.

Wow, a great discussion is forming! Can I join in

Quote from ErolGarip

women are mentally more stronger than men, quite contrary to cliche beliefs like yours.

I don't agree. "Mentality" is too big a concept to state that someone is mentaly stronger than another.

In my opinion based on what I've read and learnt, women are better than men with regards to coping with big mental breakdowns on the longer term.
However, women's emotional arousal has a very thin "steady zone" so they can easily become anxious.
Women can get away from an "emotional pit" faster than men but they are also more likely to fall into another "pit".

So, women are more unstable than men, which both mean that in times they can cope with serious stress better than men and in times they can be affected by stress in a greater way than men.

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Also, trainers have not given much importance to tactics in women volleyball.

Exactly, so because most coaches are men, and what is expected from players is to perform not to invent, the thing with tactics and logical thinking has little base in my opinion. The game is so fast and you have little time to reflect on situation. You play more on intuition. No difference between men and women on the tactical bit in my opinion.

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So, since women are more emotional as you said, then, they have more
potential to be better in this sport volleyball, don't they?

No! Overanxiety can be positive and negative.
Only positive anxiety has positive influence on performance and not in many sports. Volleyball is very technical and not that physical sport(compared to rugby, for ex.) so any kind of overanxiety has detrimental effects. Negative overanxiety is even worse and more women are reported to show negative overanxiety. The classic examples are women's tennis matches. The same applies on many volleyball games for women.

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Voleyball is more about emotions than physical power.

Absolutely agree. That's why I like volleyball, it's the most psychological sport in the world or at least which I know.

Quote from ErolGarip

Logic is a thing related to the brain. According to a theory, brain is most non-linear system on the earth,.. AND.. woman brain have higher nonlinearity than man brain.. means women brain is more complex.. so, woman logic is deeper than man logic.

I can't agree here. I don't see the logic in this statement. Women's brain is different than men's, that's obvious and proven. It is more nonlinear, I also agree about that. But "logic" is not the only function of the brain, so a more complex brain doesn't mean a more logical brain. You can't compare two different things.

So, to conclude - men are more stable mentally than women (which doesn't mean they are mentally better than women) and this is the reason there are less ups and downs in womens matches.

And to end, I am a huge supporter of equality among genders! But I'm a great rival to all feminist groups and theorists! Because they took the "equality" issue and turned it to "same-ness" issue. I don't want to see marginalisation, exploitation and exclusion of women from sport. But I also don't want to see women rugbists, weightlifters, etc. (in the UK there is a big issue now why men participate more in some sports than women and they wrongly state it's because of social exclusion by men towards women). I want to see women gymnasts, swimmers, volleyball players and ice-skaters and men wrestlers, weight-lifters, etc. This world survived thousands of years because of the roles men and women played, and it won't survive if the difference between men and women becomes only in their genitals.

Peace.

They are mostly women who have said to me "men are more about logic", but, I don't believe/agree in that. I know that when they say this, their intention is to get things somehow on their ways by filling egos of men and usually, they are successful, as we see in your words too (you saying men are more "logic" than women that is actually their words of women.) They run their logic differently and they are betteo at this as their brain is, you admit, more nonlinear, more complex, so, more potential to be more logical. Logic is a function in a system. The more complex system the more chaotic, yes, but it can also be more complex functional, hence, more logical if chaos control is done and females are better at this too. Males can go into physical reactions, into hooliganism etc easily because they easily lose their control when their brain goes into the chaos. This less happens in the females as they are better in controlling themselves although their brain is more complex, more chaotic. Anyway, lets put "logic" things in comparison aside, it is too virtual thing and discussing about these can be books here.

Those females saying "social exclusion by men towards women" is not incorrect. We see this in sports too. Accept it we have been living mostly in "men world" with rules, with criterias drawn according to men. Take simple examples to see this. When a female sprints and runs 100 meters, we any men immediately say "we can run faster" and this faster run becomes worldwide populizm and we hear more about male athletes in the media then. Most of world people already know 100 m runner Bolt while only a few people know 100 m runner woman. By this, actually, what are we doing? We are not understanding them actually and we are trying to prove we men are faster, stronger, powerful etc than women. That is, it is us males who are causing gender discrimination, gender inequality, etc as we men see equality in such things like being faster, stronger, etc, actually, we men are claiming we are superior than them by such things. And, since we men are mostly rulers of this life (go and check your parliament and count nr of female there to see this), we men are making competition rules too, and, according to ourselves, us men. They are trying to find a sport to show themselves (like tennis), we men are going into it immediately and saying "we are better (than you women) at this too." We men are really like children. Hence, we see hooligans in our gender, male. We male world are not men enough actually, we are not grown enough. Women are grown more than us and they are behaving like moms of us when they see how we behave. Them women are going into silence because they fear our maniac behaviours of males. Sad, but, truth.

Back to volleyball. I see asethetic actions in female volley more. In female volley, check statistics graph, you'll see more of gaussian distribution while in male volley, it is more of sharp ups and downs. I can see their only disadvantage of female volley-ers as well as in other professional sports is their pregnancy period of women which causes them a stop in their careers, but, this too is because of us male world, who brought a rule in the life like "professionalism" in sport, that's, making income throughout the life by sports which is totally absurd and but, this "professionalism" rule too exists due to our selfishness of male world.. Anyway, since aesthetics is more important for me in volley (doesn't matter who wins, who is more powerful, etc), and this team sport is for fun, for entertainment, it is being done better by females.

The topic about differences between genders is a long one and it's a bit off topic. As a woman working mostly with men a job that requires logical thinking I could tell you that for sure there is difference between the way women and men are thinking. We all think (unless we are morons). The ability to think is not relying on logic or making decisions relying on logic. Both genders have advantages and disadvantages and that's the fun in life. However men are more stable usually in the sense that women have small break downs more often than men who have one big break down, but then they are fine for long time. That's because women express their feelings easier and don't bottle them up like men.

For brains complexity and Intuiton I could talk a lot since biology (especially neuroscience) is my hobby, but there is no point in this. However Intuition is not sixth sense in the sense we believe it is. Our brain uses our sensors to gather information from the outer world, then our brains processes this information in the background and we don't even realize it and then out of nowhere we come to conclusion and we think that it's Intuition. So the faster we process this information from the outer world, the easier to make our Intuition working.

I don't agree that females are better in controlling themselves. One of the reasons why I don't get along with women even though I'm a woman is the fact that most women around me do stuff they know that are wrong for them and will hurt them, but they are still doing them, because they feel strongly about someone or something. That's not control. Of course luckily not all women are like that, but the percentage of women doing this is higher that the men doing this.

I also agree that some feminists go over board with those female rights. There is no need in shouting in the world that women have rights, that women are as smart as men, as athletic as men, as powerful as men. What's the point? The idea indeed is not to be the same, the idea is that both women and men could be successful in the areas they are good at it. And that's valid for every person. Every person is good in something and they should thrive to succeed in this area. And yeah women weightlifters is not something I want to watch.

Actually I think that sports are about winning. It's not about which teams played better or more beautiful (even though sometimes this might be vital for the win), it's about the team that won the game and got the medals and the cups. That's how we measure teams and players success. As for the entertainment part, we are entertained by different things so we choose what to watch and have fun with.

Were you a woman? lol. Not that my words would have changed, but, my addressing "we men" wouldn't have been there as you are not in "we men". Anyway, it is getting interesting as one woman (you) see volleyball is more man sport while one man (me) see it as more woman sport. It is like "hey, you, play volley, it is your sport:)"

Quote from secretk

However men are more stable usually in the sense that women have small break downs more often than men who have one big break down, but then they are fine for long time. That's because women express their feelings easier and don't bottle them up like men.

That men explode in a longer period doesn't mean they are more stable. Having more often small break downs are like small sparks which discharge the stresses accumulated in the person and women doing this is more stable, hence, we don't often see a big breaking changes from women, that means, women stay at stability position more. Men are just trying to stay at unsteable peak points as if they are resistant to hard conditions too more than women. But, we know they are not resistant actually and they go even into wars which results in millions of kills. As you say women express their feelings easier and this solves many problems in the life and this shows women are more social creatures than men. But, them women are out of social activities like sports because male world is asocial, really asocial, doesn't matter which part of the world, same everywhere. Due to this asocialness of malie world, we see "professionalism" in sports because asocial males want to make easy life by earning money continuously from a social activity like sport and they will always be successful in that as their competitiors (women) will always be slower in running 100 m competition, less amount of weights in lifting, more powerful shoots in soccer, more sharp powerful spikes by them, etc etc. Only when sport is considered as entertainment, females will have more advantage over males, or equal advantage. Otherwise, when it is professionalism like today, when it is to compete in the field with the rules of male world, females are destined to lose, less money, etc. Volleyball as a female sport (in my view ofc) gives a chance to break this bordered region of male world asocialism.

Well, if we consider professional sport by one of its definitions as a competitive physical activity with a sort of a purpose (scoring goals, running 100m, etc.), then sport is a more male activity. Call me sexist, call me what you want, women (like you said) are social creatures. They don't have the testosterone which is the main cause for the male competitiveness, aggression, physical suppremacy and so on - characteristics which are basic and essential for almost all sports. And women turn sport into something different, some kind of social thing (some men like me would say that they kinda jerk off and are not serious about it, which would not be entirely and politicaly correct ). And that's why there are some sports in which the main focus is not competitiveness, but showing yourself, your beauty and gracious movements (figure-skating, artistic and rhytmic gymnastics, synchronised swimming).

What my point is, is that there is some logic behind the absence of men in synchronised swimming events as well as the absence of women in American football. You say that social boundaries have a key role and it shouldn't be like that. And I say that if there is some social interference, it is in the opposite direction, by "forcing" women to invade what used to be male sports. Why I consider it fine to have only male sports and only female sports? You said:

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Most of world people already know 100 m runner Bolt while only a few
people know 100 m runner woman. By this, actually, what are we doing?

OK, but let's be entirely objective. This is only one part of the coin. Let's assume that sport is a male fortress. So I ask you, why people know only female topmodels and not male? Why when you go to the shopping malls, you see mostly women? Isn't it a place for men as well? Are they socially excluded from malls?

Men in general succeed more because it is them who strive to succeed (testosterone). You can't succeed if you don't want to succeed. But what's the point of succeeding? Is it the main purpose of life? Nobody knows, so you can't tell if a successful man is superior to a mere housewife. In an analogical comparison, there have been talks that one race is superior than the others physically but inferior mentally (intelligence-wise). And in order to prevent the inevitable discrimination which can arise from this conclusion, people do their best to disapprove this conclusion as strongly as possible. But why? Is being mentally superior make you a better person than the one who is physically superior? Who decides that?

The same is with women. Women and men strive for different things in life. The feminist movements argue that women are overshadowed by men. But how can they be overshadowed when they fight on two different fronts? Why men don't say that they are overshadowed by women in some cases (and yes they are, which is fine)? So, my conclusion is that women themselves are having some problems since the 20th century and they start not to like the role which they played over thousands of years. And the proper question should be what triggered this change? Is it the economics? That women now have to work? What makes this difference? Why they want to change their role now and not in 1578 for example?

You often support your statements with social constructions and constrictions. I believe that social constructions are the clothes of the body, the thin exterior which lays on the thick exterior of the biological construction of the individual. And we change socially to adapt to our biological needs. Those needs can't change quickly (it takes thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years) and the social constructions change in decades at worst. So we are starting to do something really stupid here. Instead of continuing to fit our social lives according to our biological needs - something that is working for thousands of years - we try to do the opposite now. Because we really have to change the biological structure somehow (not physical appearance, of course, I'm talking about neuro and endocrine system) to fit the social construction we want to biuld. And for what purpose?

Quote from ErolGarip

Voleybol is more feminine because our macho men world needs to physical body contacts, fauls, etc. Even in supporters. No wonder why holigans are mostly males. Female world have been searching a team sport with no physical power body contacts and they found this sport some decades ago and this is why volleyball has become popular among females. Even when they are little girls, they play such games with ball similar to volleyball. Voleyball might be invented a century ago, but, actually, it is not an invention, just a modification of some games girls were playing for centuries. Their all games were similar to volleyball. Our monopoly character of men in everythings has caused their this sport of females been occupied by men too. But, from aesthetic point of view, this sport is really girly sport.

The physical contact argument is so false. One can easily come up with many sports with no physical contacts in which male's events are more spectacular than female's. The very reason that women's volleyball is not so bad compared to men's is this sport compromises to women by lowering the net height of women's games by roughly 20 cm referring to that of men's games. Can you imagine what happens if basket is lower in women's basketball, or court is smaller in women's football. Or, can you imagine asking Takeshita to play with 2.43cm net?

In other sports, could you name any non-physical contact sports that women always have advantages? Tennis? Table-tennis? Shooting? Badminton?

One reason that I respect volleyball so much is that this sport kind of balances the differences between men's games and women's games. But it indeed is unfair to say this sport is designed for women.

Actually I don't claim that volleyball is purely man sport, but I also don't think that it's women sport. I claim that there are differences in men's and women's volleyball. And those differences could make some people to prefer one above the other.

When someone is arguing that much about overshadowing they are insecure. People are good in different areas and people should thrive to get better at what they want, not at what they think that they should be since someone is. Those arguments that men are overshadowing women were valid when for the same type of job even in the same company men got more money than women. I wouldn't say that now the difference is that big, nor I would say that men don't admit when woman is good in area where it's primary theirs. But men and women do strive in different type of jobs even. I'm not working in mostly men job because no one gives chance to women to work there. There are not that many women in this area (there are, just the percentage is lower) because women don't have interest in this. Many times when feminists are arguing about something, they come up with examples in areas where actually the women in general are less so it's normal that the examples of women succeeding will be less. And actually seriously what is the idea of those feminists? They want to be aggressive and competitive as men in sports? Because that requires testosterone. Now if they want more testosterone then I am not sure that they want to be women.

I don't claim that women having small break downs often is a bad thing, but in sport we need to be focused and all those small breakdowns shape the game differently. Like I said testosterone (main male hormone) + adrenaline equals aggression. Aggression in volleyball means powerful spikes. Just like in life if men are frustrated they show anger and aggression, not crying for long hours. It's biological. Estrogen (main female hormone) + adrenaline results in anxiousness and euphoria. Euphoria makes the brain to go overdrive which is anything but concentration. And yes there are women who have more testosterone (not like men, but more than what's normal for women) and they could be competitive as much as men, but those are the exceptions. Most women don't have enough testosterone to be competitive in sports in the way men are. So they need to be motivated differently.

Due to these biological differences between women and men there is no way the sport volleyball to be exactly alike for men and women. Yes they follow the same rules, but the whole dynamic is different.

Quote from triglav_kran

women turn sport into something different, some kind of social thing

They do correct. Sport, especially team sports are social events. Otherwise, it turns into somethings else like competing to make money and we know, it is to their advantage of males as males have physical advantage over females. So, no wonder why males like you don't want the sports to be seen as social events.

Quote from triglav_kran

I ask you, why people know only female topmodels and not male?

Are you complaining about this? Again, this too is because of us male world. Our male world would like to see females in beauty contests only. Our media and rich people are mostly dominated by males. Medias are mostly owned by rich guys. Check Forbes's 100 richest people of the world, you will see more than 90% of them are males. So, they and their media are making rules and they are putting mostly female models only under spot lights and we ordinary people of the world see female top models only while mostly male top sporters, sportmen (see even this term is sport"men" only, sportwomen isn't used.)

Quote from triglav_kran

feminist movements argue that women are overshadowed by men.

whenever a female says "there is a gender discrimination and we women are not getting what we deserve", you call all of them feminists, right? It is somethings like workers who are asking for better life are being called communists. Name them however you like, whether communists or feminists or qtrtyuy-ists, but, it is a truth indeed that women are overshadowed by men and reason of this is due to the male world domination in richness.

Quote from Martee

In other sports, could you name any non-physical contact sports that women always have advantages? Tennis? Table-tennis? Shooting? Badminton?

advantagves over WHO? Over men? If you do this, you are trapped in comparisons between two different genders. False comparison, like comparing apple and pear. Why do we compare these different things? Again, to gain an advantage in competition, hence, in making money. Try to make comparisons only in the same category to make it sense. For me, sport is a social activity, not, competition, but, if you still prefer to categorize it as a competition, then, let apples compete in themselves and pears compete in themselves. Otherwise, apples and pears competing each others are unequal, unfair, subjective, a matter of taste and this matter of taste is being taste of male world mostly.

Quote from Martee

indeed is unfair to say this sport (volley) is designed for women.

No, it is designed for "males" (designed by an American a century ago). Originally, volleyball was a female sport only before then, before a century ago, it was being played by girls mostly. However, it was not professional, that's, there wasn't a source of money then. After that American who wanted to use this game of girls in the political arenas (remember it with rules was played among priests first), later, it is transferred into a professional sport in which males can make money, again. So, volley was a stolen game from girls.

Quote from secretk

actually seriously what is the idea of those feminists? They want to be aggressive and competitive as men in sports?

Not all females who call themselves feminists are really feminists. Many of them who are fake feminists are actually giving damages to real women rights because those fake feminists or females like them with wrong argumants are debate in wrong fields. They too are trapped in comparing apples and pears. They are trapped because either they are fake feminists or they are not ones who really are after women rights. But, it is still good that they speak their voices of silent majority of female world who are indeed overshadowed, rights stolen, etc. Feminists saying "we are better than males in sports" are on the wrong way, like male world who claim "we are better than you females in sports." Those feminists are "reactional" feminists with false arguments.

Quote from secretk

Due to these biological differences between women and men there is no way the sport volleyball to be exactly alike for men and women. Yes they follow the same rules, but the whole dynamic is different.

As I said over and over above, comparisons are being made falsely, as you said there are biological differences. When two items with biological differences compete, it is like running competition between rabbit and turtle. Applying same rules to them is to the advantage of rabbit and we male world ruling rules of the life are making rules according to us rubbits. Let them compete in themselves and try to see the differences and enjoy. I have read a lot of opinions here and elsewhere saying that Saori Kimura is too soft for spiking. They do this because their minds (mostly males) are searching "power" like males have, a false education in humans for centuries, due to, again, male domination in ruling for centuries. But, they don't see that Saori is very aesthetic in playing volleyball. People here know my opinions about Neslihan, I often say she is like in a beauty contest podium. But, Neslihan, in this part of the world (Europe, East Europe, West) has become more popular. Why? Because many (of course males) find her beautiful and also powerful, just like this part of world like to see in a volleyball player, actually, it is a push toward male genderness. On the other hand, Saori is aesthetic and can do many things well, from "movement beauty" to tactics, etc.

Anyway. I think I found correct term already. This volleyball sport is a stolen sport from girls, it has been a game being played by girls for centuries.

Quote from ErolGarip

As I said over and over above, comparisons are being made falsely, as you said there are biological differences. When two items with biological differences compete, it is like running competition between rabbit and turtle. Applying same rules to them is to the advantage of rabbit and we male world ruling rules of the life are making rules according to us rubbits. Let them compete in themselves and try to see the differences and enjoy. I have read a lot of opinions here and elsewhere saying that Saori Kimura is too soft for spiking. They do this because their minds (mostly males) are searching "power" like males have, a false education in humans for centuries, due to, again, male domination in ruling for centuries. But, they don't see that Saori is very aesthetic in playing volleyball. People here know my opinions about Neslihan, I often say she is like in a beauty contest podium. But, Neslihan, in this part of the world (Europe, East Europe, West) has become more popular. Why? Because many (of course males) find her beautiful and also powerful, just like this part of world like to see in a volleyball player, actually, it is a push toward male genderness. On the other hand, Saori is aesthetic and can do many things well, from "movement beauty" to tactics, etc.

Anyway. I think I found correct term already. This volleyball sport is a stolen sport from girls, it has been a game being played by girls for centuries.

But that's exactly my point. Men's volleyball and women's volleyball are different in dynamics (not in rules) so some people prefer one above the other. In order to answer the question why a comparison is needed. If someone prefers women's volleyball over men's volleyball they have their reasons to do so and the other way around. There is no way to explain such opinion without comparing them. So yes apples and pears. That doesn't stop me from saying tha I actually find apples tastier than pears. It's the same here. Yes there are different and yet a lot of people put one above the other because they like it more.

Actually the sport volleyball was created as attempt to introduce similar to basketball sport that is less rough than volleyball and could be played by older players. The start of volleyball is around 1895. The sport was called Mintonette. Later the name was changed to volleyball. It was introduced in 1964 in the Olympics for both women and men. The person that had idea for the game is man. So there is no evidence that volleyball is women sport. It started pretty equal for both genders. (source )

Quote from secretk

Actually the sport volleyball was created as attempt to introduce similar to basketball sport that is less rough than volleyball and could be played by older players. The start of volleyball is around 1895. The sport was called Mintonette. Later the name was changed to volleyball. It was introduced in 1964 in the Olympics for both women and men. The person that had idea for the game is man. So there is no evidence that volleyball is women sport. It started pretty equal for both genders. (source )

Create or invention is a wrong term in social fields. For example, it is said that Marx, Engels, etc created/invented socialism, totally, wrong. It should be called "modification" or "formalization" or "transferring into writings". When there is no base of a thing in the community, a social "new" thing can not be introduced into the community. For ex, socialism has been in the life for tousands of years. Just a concrete example. In Psidian Antiochia (today a town in Central Anatolia), it is proven that there was a movement of workers in year 40 AD, that is, about 2000 years ago. With the terms we use today, it too can be called a socialist movement. Marx-like social scientists just "formalized" or "wrote" by modifying such things in the communities of tousands of years. So, it wasn't an invention, nor a creation actually, but, a discover of a thing which has been there in the life for tousands of years.

Similar things happened in this kind of sport too. It was "formalized" by this American by the end of last century, yes, but, definitely not created nor invented. There were similar games being played in the community long time ago. For example, I grew up in a small, but, a very isolated village due to the nature (mountains, etc) in central Anatolia here. We were living with very old tradition with some Tengrist (Paganic religion) traditions, with no idea on outer life of the village. We little kids were playing different games of course and one of them was to play with thickened7hardened woolen ball game. While we little boys were kicking it by foot like soccer, girls were playing it by hands, similar to a mixture of handball and volleyball today. They were hanging a rope between two trees and they were trying to throw wool balls to each others. I believe this was one of traditional games transferred from generation to generation. I also believe similar games, similar to volley, were being played in the villages of other parts of the world too for centuries. So, that info on wiki page is false, like claims of Britishs who say they created/invented the soccer/football. If I am to be kind, I can say only it was "formalized" or "modified" by Brits with some additional new rules. If I am not asked to be kind, then, I can say that it is a stolen game from ordinary communities. Same things can be said about the volleyball too, stolen game from communities of the world and stolen from girls as them girls were playing such games being played by hands like volley while boys were playing such games with the balls-like tools by feet. While I have foot to kick a ball more powerfully, why shall I use my hands to kick/throw it by hands. Only girls can do this, so, hand ball games in general and volleyball in particular is a girly sport historically.

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Sport, especially team sports are social events. Otherwise, it turns
into somethings else like competing to make money and we know, it is to
their advantage of males as males have physical advantage over females.
So, no wonder why males like you don't want the sports to be seen as
social events.

No, you got me wrong here. I don't think sport only as something physical. I like watching and playing snooker and other similar sports where there is no such element. But what I think is lacking in recreational women sport (everything except professional and elite women sport) is the huge desire to win. To win at all cost. This competitiveness. In elite sport it is different and that's why I don't see sport as something natural for women.

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Are you complaining about this? Again, this too is because of us
male world. Our male world would like to see females in beauty contests
only. Our media and rich people are mostly dominated by males. Medias
are mostly owned by rich guys. Check Forbes's 100 richest people of the
world, you will see more than 90% of them are males. So, they and their
media are making rules and they are putting mostly female models only
under spot lights and we ordinary people of the world see female top
models only while mostly male top sporters, sportmen (see even this term
is sport"men" only, sportwomen isn't used.)

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I am not complaining. But I wrote the example because women's complaints that there aren't as many women rugby players as there are men (there are such arguments, trust me) sound equally ridiculous.
Your argument about beauty contest can be applied the same in sports and men. First of all, the thing about women and fashion is long before TV and media, so the argument can't stand here. Also, male athletes can be "prisoners of the public stereotypes" as well as women topmodels. There is sexualisation of both women and men. (topmodels vs. muscular athletes).
My argument was comparing sport vs. fashion, male vs. female kingdom.
There is a term sportswoman.
Your argument about that 99% of the richest people are male is confirming my theory that because of the testosterone males are the ones who have an ambition for power (and thus money) and women are not richest because they don't want to be rich, not because some men prevent this from hapenning. And also, those rich men have wives, don't they? So they share the money.

Erol, are you saying that according to you it is ideal that every field in life should be filled 50-50% by men and women. That for every male position in every field there is also one female positions. And not only about positions but attention from the media should be 50-50% towards men and women in every field (sports, fashion, etc.) ?

I believe that there must be equal opportunities for men and women everywhere. And after that, it is up to those men and women to fill those places according to their likings and biological capabilities. Some people somehow forget these biological differences. Why can't we agree that women are better than men in some fields and men are better than women in other. So why should we artificially put more women/men in fields where men/women thrive more?

I agree with you that comparing men and women in general is useless. Like your example with the apple and the pear. But I also say that these "fruits" have some subcategories in which they can be compared. For ex, the apple is tastier, but the pear gives you more energy. So males and females have roles, in which they are best at. And it would be better to fill these roles.

I agree that in the past women were maltreated. But now they are not and everything that is done more towards "equality" can only put a stick on the wheels of the car called male and female existence together and the car can break down in the future.