2010 FIVB World Club Championships

Quote from king

so much that FIVB couldnt resist

yeah and the deal includes Bartek also, we need a new cheerleader, perfect choice definitely..

Dont be rude Saybia, what Bartek said makes a lot of sence actually.

the turth is, The first rules of World Championsh were to be only 6 teams, and now appears this invitation.

I dont agree.

I think it is good for the tournament to have more clubs, and good that Fenerbahçe it is one of it, cause it is incredible club and sure takes more to the tournament, but not like this. Not with an invitation. that takes ou the credits of the championship, FIVB should stop doing that! Make another qualification tournament, I dont know....but not invitation...that is only based in politics and money, and ruin volleyball.

joanamms,

in every single debate somehow you find a way to discuss my morals, not the against one, I must be some kind of a devil:)

As speaking for this one if you're agree with Bartek's opinion and if you also think these kind of cases ruin volleyball, then you both should have some patience and wait till to find out what the real case is, then if the case would turn out happened as Bartek just mentioned here, you guys have every right to criticize that kind of action for sure,
but only after a formal statement, you get it? that is some kind of moral too,

and before accusing somebody with rudeness, please just show the same sensitivy against other members too and warn them about their conclusory accusations, thats your job right as a moderator? You need to stay neutral, if that man continue those kind of sarcastic accusations, as you know that's not happened once, I'll be exactly that kind of rude again, cause its the only right attitude that kind of man deserves..

WEll Saybia, makes me really sad you think that way.

What I meant only it was that Bartek coment was about a situation, he didnt ofend anyone in particular, and eveyrone has the benefith of doubt. It is weird that sudenly Fenerbahçe recieves a wild card, when it was nothing previous saying that that would happen. and Of course wild cards involve money and politics, only dont see that who dont want. And you in other hand made a coment being personaly rude indeed. It was not necessary. That is why I called your attention. Why to say bad things direcly to someone that didnt say anything against you? He only put in doubt the means of a situation that just happened. And that happens all the time in the world. It is not Fenerbahçe exclusive, dont worry. IT is actually FIVB fault to accept that. You dont need to come with two stones in your hands. I think everyone here is adult enough to make a discussion without having to make personal insults. If you dont agree with Bartek, then just put your opinion, saying I dont agree, I dont think Istanbul payed anything, or whatever, dont need to make a personal insult. That is all.

anyway....

I agree with King, I dont understand why FIVB makes different rules for male and wamen tournaments, and I indeed would prefer that 8 teams participate Women tournament, I just would prefer if FIVB had rules defined. If it is to participate two from Europe, great, if they prefer a qualification tournament with different teams, also, even if they had define already wild card spot, (dont I dont agree with the wild card idea), but at least had defined already....not be changing the rules all the time.

And Bartek, now you got me...hehehe, I'm not really sure, but I guess so. I'll check for you.

Quote from Bartek

Joanamms don't speak with fanatics because they don't understand sense of our intention. For some peoples one life is to short to understand something. Thanks that We have only one life because for this peoples 5 lives will be short I think. Tell Me Joanamms if matches in 1st League of Brazil is end?

Fanatics wow, last time I've checked I wasn't the one who had banned because of my racist comments? Wasn't that one you? Have you been in India in some kind of sanctuary and become a Gandhi or somebody else?

Quote from Bartek

Tell Me Joanamms if matches in 1st League of Brazil is end?

Hey Bartek acording to my sister yeah, Praia Clube won the final against Pomerode, but that dont worth nothing. Brasilian confederation let everyone that has a sponsor participate Superleague, so..hehehehe, I dont know actually why theymake this tournament. hehehe

Sorry guys for the off topic.

Quote from joanamss

WEll Saybia, makes me really sad you think that way.

What I meant only it was that Bartek coment was about a situation, he didnt ofend anyone in particular, and eveyrone has the benefith of doubt. It is weird that sudenly Fenerbahçe recieves a wild card, when it was nothing previous saying that that would happen. and Of course wild cards involve money and politics, only dont see that who dont want. And you in other hand made a coment being personaly rude indeed. It was not necessary. That is why I called your attention. Why to say bad things direcly to someone that didnt say anything against you? He only put in doubt the means of a situation that just happened. And that happens all the time in the world. It is not Fenerbahçe exclusive, dont worry. IT is actually FIVB fault to accept that. You dont need to come with two stones in your hands. I think everyone here is adult enough to make a discussion without having to make personal insults. If you dont agree with Bartek, then just put your opinion, saying I dont agree, I dont think Istanbul payed anything, or whatever, dont need to make a personal insult. That is all.

anyway....

I agree with King, I dont understand why FIVB makes different rules for male and wamen tournaments, and I indeed would prefer that 8 teams participate Women tournament, I just would prefer if FIVB had rules defined. If it is to participate two from Europe, great, if they prefer a qualification tournament with different teams, also, even if they had define already wild card spot, (dont I dont agree with the wild card idea), but at least had defined already....not be changing the rules all the time.

And Bartek, now you got me...hehehe, I'm not really sure, but I guess so. I'll check for you.

Display More

joanamms,

You see the story on your own way, and for me there is mine, standing on your side you consider those words as they're only against to FIVB, but on my own side thats not the fact,
it may not be his direct intention, but still that sentence effects that way, he's accusing my team to get the success with spending money all around, so he's responsible with his words, and I am a member of that team, I am a fan of that team, so there is definitely something personal here..

Quote from Bartek

In this year shouldn't be Wild Card. How much money Istanbul gives FIVB to get Wild?

Its really pointless -.-' I am not Fenerbahce suporter but FBA deserved it coz they are really good team and for a better WCC level the tournament should be with stronger teams.Brazil,Japan teams are strong but african,ocean teams?IECL runner up is a good decision its my idea.

Quote from Saybia

joanamms,

You see the story on your own way, and for me there is mine, standing on your side you consider those words as they're only against to FIVB, but on my own side thats not the fact,
it may not be his direct intention, but still that sentence effects that way, he's accusing my team to get the success with spending money all around, so he's responsible with his words, and I am a member of that team, I am a fan of that team, so there is definitely something personal here..

I understand what you say Saybia, but honestly I dont think your words justify your atitude. Like I said I believe anyone has the benefit of doubt, and even if Bartek thinks that Fenerbahçe used their money to get in the tournament, we can use better words to discuss that situation, arguments and not simply use words that will offend the person, cause also like you said, you not sure if he didnt that intentionaly to insult you, maybe was just considering the situation in the first statement. that for example, I agree. I do think that Fenerbahçe maybe ahd use their political force inside FIVB to recieve the wild card, since they built a very strong team, and for that they have a big chance if they play this year to become World Champions, that for the club is a good marketing. I'm not being insulting to turkish fans, I'm just analising a situation, that is commom to happen in the world, not only with Fenerbahçe. So, again, I just think it was not necessary for you to use that words. You could just discust as adult, put your arguments, and if you felt insulted, just say it, "sorry men but that statement of your is ofensive in my opinion"....didnt need to go ofending. I hope next time you just be more patient in your coments, and try to not be so agressive. We can all live in peace, no matter witch team you cheer for. Lets remember guys this is after all only sport, it supose to be something entertaning, not war or violence! ok?

Quote from StarNight

Its really pointless -.-' I am not Fenerbahce suporter but FBA deserved it coz they are really good team and for a better WCC level the tournament should be with stronger teams.Brazil,Japan teams are strong but african,ocean teams?IECL runner up is a good decision its my idea.

I agree Fenerbahçe is a good team, and maybe they deserved, I just dont agree how this was done. So sudenly. The tournament must have rules, or it just loose credibility. And the fact is that Fenerbahçe didnt qualified. Maybe FIVB should have put the rule better, saying, two teams form Europe will quali, both finalists, or we will do another qualification, or so on....not giving wild cards.

Like that makes sound that any team in the world that builds a strong team just needs to ask for the Wild Card.

What makes Fenerbahçe deserve this spot more the Dinamo Moscow for example? Fenerbahçe thought have incredible team this season, never won a Champions LEague, and Dinamo it is one of the most traditionals teams in Europe. So you see my point, I just think that FIVB should have rules defined, and not keep changing based on their "interests".

NExt season will be 4 wild cards in GRand Prix.....if keeps like that, in future dont need qualification tournaments anymore, play who ever FIVB wants.

I sometimes dont like Cev or Fivb's decisions but never say or think who pay more. Some users insist on their utopian ideas. Last year Istanbul wans't host for Indesit CL, Cannes was host. We never thouhgt about how much Cannes had paid or Polland goes to 2011 GP with wild card. Have Polland paid anything? Now u can say, this year there shouldn't be Wild Card for W. Clubs Champ, Fivb may change the rules, who knows? At some competitions we dont agree on the best players but Cev and Fivb decide it. Last year did Flieer Manon pay something to be MVP, or y Osmokrovic wasn't be MVP CL F4, she hasn't got any many?
Yes, i agree about Fivb and Cev sometimes do interesting jobs but u can explain it with different ways. We know who is fanatic and banned from forum and also who has no enough time to understand!

joanamms,

I can do that, I can do what you've asked, and I apologize if he didn't have that kind of purpose, also I appreciate your conciliatory posts,

but I'm simply asking you those questions, why are you only focusing on my attitudes? And puting my post here to discuss? You're only criticizing my words, and this attitudes justifies his initial post.

Yeah I, myself told you that he might have good intentions, but still that doesn't change the fact of that post's meaning, it is disrespectful, this is a forum and I don't know that man, that platform only includes words, so I reach a conclusion by just only reading his words, thats the way, we communicate like this, so as a result why not give a little try to discuss his mistakes instead of mines?

I dont think it is only about money, but about power,

why do you think Brasil recived the wild card to play next year WGP? IT is cause we are champions???NO! Cause Russia has been champions many time and never won any wild card from FIVB. IT is cause of the power Ary Graça has together with FIVB. and who said that Cannes dont have power inside CEV? CAuse lets be honest, the team is good, but they have already host the final four of Champions league many time. Why not Pesaro that fight for amny years to arrive in Final Four and many times with better team then Cannes? Or another team that never recieved a final four? why not a neutral place? Maybe not money but power has influence for sure.

And of course it is not always about that, if we think that only politics rules sport, then better stop following the sport. But also you cant close your eyes for the fact that this happens! Can you tell me what Fenerbahçe has that deserve this wild card more then Dinamo Moscow? Ok the got in the final of last Champions League...yeah, but the rule was not for the finalists, so based on that Wild card can be given to any club. So why Fenerbahçe and not Dinamo? After all, Wild card are exclusive given based in interestes, or it wouldnt have wild cards at all just to start, the only reason it exists it is based on a interest, no matter witch interest is...if it is to have the best team, if is money or power....

The reason why I dont agree with wild cards, is that like that then what stop a club to build a strong team only imaging already winning the wild card, and not really thinking in the development of the sport? (And before any one come with stones against me, I'm not saying Fenerbahçe is like that, cause do think they do invest, hehehe, it is a general situation) I'm not against Fenerhabeçe, it could have been any club, I'm just tired of FIVB changing rules all the time based only in interests.

To start I dont agree with wild cards, but, ok, I understand that it may have sometimes, it is part of the sport, I just wished that FIVB had that defined since the begging, and dont keep changing the rules of tournaments just in favor of one or another.

Quote from Saybia

joanamms,

I can do that, I can do what you've asked, and I apologize if he didn't have that kind of purpose, also I appreciate your conciliatory posts,

but I'm simply asking you those questions, why are you only focusing on my attitudes? And puting my post here to discuss? You're only criticizing my words, and this attitudes justifies his initial post.

Yeah I, myself told you that he might have good intentions, but still that doesn't change the fact of that post's meaning, it is disrespectful, this is a forum and I don't know that man, that platform only includes words, so I reach a conclusion by just only reading his words, thats the way, we communicate like this, so as a result why not give a little try to discuss his mistakes instead of mines?

Display More

Sorry, I just said about yours cause your words were clearly insulting, his I cant know if he had intention to disrespct you, so I cant say anything. For me he was just analising a situation, and he didnt say anything personal to you, but if you felt disrepected somehow with his words, you should say it, in a nice way, trying to show him why he disrepected you, using arguments, not bad words There is the only reason.

Quote from joanamss

Sorry, I just said about yours cause your words were clearly insulting, his I cant know if he had intention to disrespct you, so I cant say anything. For me he was just analising a situation, and he didnt say anything personal to you, but if you felt disrepected somehow with his words, you should say it, in a nice way, trying to show him why he disrepected you, using arguments, not bad words There is the only reason.

Ok lets see how things have happened, he talked about some kind of imaginary deal which points Fenerbahçe got something from FIVB with unjustifying ways, by just using the power of the money, and I responded him as his imaginary deal has also included himself, cause we needed a cheerleader,
and after all that process, you've just decided my words as an insult, but he's been a good boy,

ok joanamms, whatever you say, cause obviously we wont reach anywhere near common, just for the record as I've mentioned before I don't think and feel that you're neutral, I felt sorry after you said that you felt sorry hearing something like that from someone, but thats what I think, and it stands still,

as a result I don't have something here to discuss any more, you have a nice time..

Joanamss,
i agree with u but u explain ur ideas in a usual type. There s no matter with it. We may not think same, it ok, i mean user's type s important, we know sometimes who provoke to this forum.
Anyway, about wild card, we dont know nearly anything. I only can say that Fenebahçe Acıbadem applied it before, i dont know if Dinamo Moskova did any application or not. Last year we won all matches expect final. This year, we r going on our investments, we have a great time, fivb may choose good team. We dont know becz it s not clear. About hosting, last year only Cannes and FBA were volunteer and Cannes took it. Also they had taken it before, Cev didnt choose new one. Is it true, imo not, but for Cannes fans it s. The difference ideas always must have been i think.
For 2011 GP, Cev announced that 3 teams from Europe ll go, only one day before the final games. y Cev wait untill that time, we dont know, power is important in here. Or about hosting CEV wait until last day, last hours also untill last mints, y, becz there s always someones fihgt for it. i wish fivb's and cev's ll work clear, i wish we can know more about decions. But it is not mean Cannes paid for F4 hosting, Polland paid for 2011 GP or Japan do it. Power is important and someones use it sensible.

Quote from Saybia

Ok lets see how things have happened, he talked about some kind of imaginary deal which points Fenerbahçe got something from FIVB with unjustifying ways, by just using the power of the money, and I responded him as his imaginary deal has also included himself, cause we needed a cheerleader,
and after all that process, you've just decided my words as an insult, but he's been a good boy,

ok joanamms, whatever you say, cause obviously we wont reach anywhere near common, just for the record as I've mentioned before I don't think and feel that you're neutral, I felt sorry after you said that you felt sorry hearing something like that from someone, but thats what I think, and it stands still,

as a result I don't have something here to discuss any more, you have a nice time..

You really cant see the words in your words and his? then really we have nothing to discuss...hehe

By the way, you respond to him cause you ASSUMED he has an opinion and made a coment that you dont agree with, and that you think is unfair, and that you think it was disrespectful to you, and that you felt the right to respond him calling him cheerleader. And now you ASSUME I'm not neutral and acuse me of something that you dont actually know, it is an opinion, and you have the right of it...just like Bartek had one. So, I can fell offended and for that I have the right to offend youwith direct words right? If I follow your thinking.....same situation.

But I wont be rude to you, dont worry. Here is a forum of people that live in coutries really different from each other, with different cultures, different religions. IT is more then natural that people see same situations with completely different eyes and avaliations, and is completely normal we have different opinions, just by the fact we have completely different enviroments, maybe what is ok for you, it is not to me, and what is disrespectful for you it is not for me, that is no right or wrong in some moments, just different sights of same situation...If we dont have the capacity to notice this situations and to be tollerant to other people coments, then this forum will just end as a only insulting place, where has no respect, and finaly no meaning for it. I'm sure you are a smart guy, like you said, Bartek coments were directed to Fenerbahçe, maybe he didnt know someone would be offended to his coment, now you coment contrary was directed to him exclusive. I'm sure you can understand that and see the difference. so here, if we dont have the capacity to read a coment, and even if you dont agree, and even if you think is disrespectful to you, if you dont have the capacity to be superior and tolerant and being able to show your ideas in a polite way, avaliating exclusive coments and not people, making a intellinget discussion about ideas and not simple insults then the forum will become a place of war and intolerance, like the rest of the world.

Many times can happen, and will happen here, that someone will make a coment that a second person will fell offended, but then if this second person can show in a polite way that the first one was offensive in his coments, then he will have the chance to ask sorry and they both can show his ideas making a intellingent discussion, with no offenses. but on the contrary, the person who felt offended come right with an offensive back, then we will just have unpleasent discussions, where has no space for respect.